Tuesday, August 4, 2009

[Scot]

Here's a starter thread.

[Duncan Gibbs]

It certainly is a nice day today here: What a great idea fellas! Unfortunately I'll have to almost always come in on the tail end of a discussion (about 7am Rous River time) as I'll be off to work shortly after that, Tuesday night/Wednesday morning being a "school" night. If I have any questions/items for discussion, I'll be sure to throw a pre-emptive thread up on this new board prior to the allotted witching hour. :)

Cheers & Beers!

[S B]

Your starter thread is sticky, lick the end of the thread, bite off the fagged end and put through eye of needle. Pull through and tie knot in the end, nothin' to it.

[Syed]

Very welcome move, bringing the Magazine and Forum closer.

[S B]

Not much sticking,so far. Re; WB, I hate to see something watered down to the hobby level just to stay alive. BTW what does sticky mean?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Looking at the thread on "the evolution of the planing dinghy" leads me to two thoughts. First, I remember your wonderful series, long ago now, on the "cutter cranks", with the half models. And then I reflect that the magazine has not spent many pages that I can recall on the wooden racing dinghy.

Is there an opportunity here?

We are in a recession; dinghies are less expensive to build or repair and yet the design and construction issues can be very interesting.

[WX]

I did 4 hours of dry stonework today. There is something very pleasant and creative about stonework...the stone I'm working with is quarried Basalt. So all shapes and sizes.

[rbgarr]

IF WB could wanted to run and manage a launch service for the ERRegatta, other events and cruising boats that visit the harbor, what features might the design have?

[The Bigfella]

Howzabout tracking down the fastest wooden boat?

[skuthorp]

Howzabout tracking down the fastest wooden boat?

Hmm, sailwould be a cold moulded foiler I'd guess or one of those giant specialist multihuls. Do you mean power? If so maybe a hydroplane, or a foiler launch?

[skuthorp]

PFD's and Lifejackets, especially for children: survival suits, and options for the disabled sailor or passenger.

Care, restoration and preservation of national collections (of wooden boats).

Comments on kits vs plans and common errors in the builds.

[Paul Pless]

Personally... selfishly... I'd like to see more boat plans offered and more boat plans catalogs and anthologies. To my knowledge WoodenBoat hasn't offerred any new plans for sale since the publication of Forty Wooden Boats - A Third Catalog of Building Plans; and actually some of the plans that were once available are no longer sold. Another book that brings me great pleasure is the Bray's book, Designs to Inspire. Its a very well crafted book with a great variety of lines and sailplans for those of us that don't live near libraries with books of boat plans or museums such as Mystic Seaport.

[Paul Pless]

Oh... and another thing.;) Y'all need to commission some designs and some articles from John Welsford.

[Scot]

Paul:

We have just 6 new designs since the publication of Forty Wooden Boats. The newest, the Jericho Bay Lobsterboat Skiff (you probably saw it at the WB Show--land exhibit) plans aren't actually in stock just yet, but will be soon. Carl mention how great a boat she is when he was out and about on it this past Saturday during the Egg Reach Regatta, whilst SOME of us were chained inside to the Store.

To see those 6 designs, you could type 400-14 into our Store search using the product # pull-down.

Do we have plans for more plans? Indeed.

[john welsford]

Thanks for the compliment Paul, what would you like to see ?

John Welsford, sitting in a warm office in the middle of winter and dreaming of sailing in the summer.

Oh... and another thing.;) Y'all need to commission some designs and some articles from John Welsford.

[WX]

I think I must be missing something here, the only content I can see in Scot's post is this-
Here's a starter thread.

Is that it?

[john welsford]

Years ago William Peters and a couple of helpers were working in a ramshackle shed in St Mawes, Cornwall, England. They had no power tools, no sandpaper, no epoxy glues or anything more sophisicated than white lead paste and linseed oil. They were just doing their days work, nothing mystical or spiritual, just earning a crust ( and not much more).
The boat that they built was nothing unusual by the standards of the day, built lighter than most but very conventionally within the type and was a result of generations of development by a family of boatbuilders who had been building the type for many decades. What is unusual is that she is still afloat, in regular use, and in two or three years she comes up for her 200th birthday.

The Cornish Pilot Gig " Newquay" deserves a really in depth article, While I have some information on her construction and shape, I'd love to read about her adventures and have more detail on her both physical and historical . This boat is in effect a time machine that gives us a window on what was then the leading edge in Western countries wooden boatbuilding two centuries ago.

Please? I'll wait until her birthday even.

For those interested she is mentioned with some detail on Page 225 of voume two of "Inshore Craft of Britain " by Edgar J March 2005 edition and in "Inshore Craft, Traditional working vessels of the British Isles" on page 170.

John Welsford.

[Cedric Rhyn]

Yes yes yes!

Cedric

Oh... and another thing.;) Y'all need to commission some designs and some articles from John Welsford.

[Russ Manheimer]

Carl,

I'd like to see some cruising or just plain using stories. What do we do with these dream-holders once launched? What makes messing about it in a wooden boat different? What skill sets work best?

And perhaps a "From the Forum" column or snippet; taking the occasional pearls of wisdom and giving it wider readership?

See you tomorrow hopefully,

Russ

[peter radclyffe]

how about photos & descriptions of every commonly used boatbuilding wood, from all countries & suppliers,

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Seconded.

[Carl Cramer]

Thanks, all. A reminder of how it works:

Post your questions in this thread. Specifically in this thread.

We'll read and respond to them here when we login at noon.

Questions for the editors; questions for Scot and the WoodenBoat Store; questions for the WoodenBoat School, etc.

We'll reply to as many of them as we can. There should be a good degree on online chaos.... and that's generally good.

Once today's session is over, we will post a NEW thread for next week's session. If you'd like us to respond to those questions next Tuesday, place them in the "Tuesday, August 11, 2009" thread. etc. I'm sure you can follow along.

Oh, and John Welsford: While you're sitting fireside in NZ, we're all scrambling, looking for fog-cutters.

"See" you at noon. Eastern US Daylight time. Thanks, Carl

[Vince Brennan]

Ah! OK, will do in future, but for now, please check out the foillowing thread for today's consideration.

(G'morning, Oh Thin One!)

I thought we had (probably did at one time) a "sticky" of tips, suggestions, "tried-and-trues" and the like in B&R but it is no longer there (or I've forgotten where it was) that I can find.

Thoughts on establishing such again (or re-establishing)? It could be a seriously valuable resource for many of we, the ham-handed.

The old thread on making your own "foulies" would be a champion entry!

[Carl Cramer]

Here's an appropriate question/suggestion from John Welsford posted elsewhere:

Years ago William Peters and a couple of helpers were working in a ramshackle shed in St Mawes, Cornwall, England. They had no power tools, no sandpaper, no epoxy glues or anything more sophisicated than white lead paste and linseed oil. They were just doing their days work, nothing mystical or spiritual, just earning a crust ( and not much more).
The boat that they built was nothing unusual by the standards of the day, built lighter than most but very conventionally within the type and was a result of generations of development by a family of boatbuilders who had been building the type for many decades. What is unusual is that she is still afloat, in regular use, and in two or three years she comes up for her 200th birthday.

The Cornish Pilot Gig " Newquay" deserves a really in depth article, While I have some information on her construction and shape, I'd love to read about her adventures and have more detail on her both physical and historical . This boat is in effect a time machine that gives us a window on what was then the leading edge in Western countries wooden boatbuilding two centuries ago.

Please? I'll wait until her birthday even.

For those interested she is mentioned with some detail on Page 225 of voume two of "Inshore Craft of Britain " by Edgar J March 2005 edition and in "Inshore Craft, Traditional working vessels of the British Isles" on page 170.

John Welsford.

[Carl Cramer]

Welcome, all, to this new WoodenBoat Q&A at the Forum.

It's top of noon here in Brooklin, Maine, and we welcome all (almost all) questions.

If you've previously submitted your questions, we'll try to answer those in random order.

If you have yet to post, please feel encouraged to do so here at this thread.

For those of you who have posted elsewhere, we'll try to get to those as well. But we'll respond here, at this thread.

Thanks for being here. Fire away............. and let the fun begin.

[Carl Cramer]

Oh... and another thing.;) Y'all need to commission some designs and some articles from John Welsford.

I agree with yours, Paul. Any comments from our editors?

[Russ Manheimer]

Waiting for a password reset

[Carl Cramer]

Ah! OK, will do in future, but for now, please check out the foillowing thread for today's consideration.

(G'morning, Oh Thin One!)

I'm sorry I missed the thread about making your own foullies. Was any consensus reached, Vince?

[Carl Cramer]

Waiting for a password reset

The old reset trick.....

[Carl Cramer]

Looking at the thread on "the evolution of the planing dinghy" leads me to two thoughts. First, I remember your wonderful series, long ago now, on the "cutter cranks", with the half models. And then I reflect that the magazine has not spent many pages that I can recall on the wooden racing dinghy.

Is there an opportunity here?

We are in a recession; dinghies are less expensive to build or repair and yet the design and construction issues can be very interesting.

I couldn't agree more, Andrew. John Welsford and I are scheming. And I'm not holding up my end of the bargain at the moment....

[Tom Jackson]

Sorry, Carl, I was involved in a bit of editing, but now I'm in. We have, of course, had a number of articles related to the dinghy subject, but not a "unified field" approach. I'm thinking specifically of the how-to-build on the Lightning, and a number of boats presented in the Small Boats edition, just off the top of my head.

[Russ Manheimer]

I see, we're doing it right here instead of the bit on the home page?

[Carl Cramer]

Sorry, Carl, I was involved in a bit of editing, but now I'm in.

It's good to have you here, Tom. Thanks. Editing does come first, though.

[Carl Cramer]

I see, we're doing it right here instead of the bit on the home page?

Yes, Russ. Here we are.

[Canoez]

Slightly awkward on the updating, but we'll see how things go..

[KE Wales]

Hello All,
Karen

[KE Wales]

Hello again,

I would like to respond to Peter's question about boatbuilding woods. Peter, have you seen our Getting Started article in issue 203? There, we have reprinted a list of boatbuilding wood species compiled by Dick Jagels.
We didn't mention suppliers there but that list alone is worth the price of admission, I think.

Karen

[MPM]

Paul (and John)--
John's a great innovator in the world of Small Boats. In fact, we featured one of his designs, Pathfinder, in our special edition, Small Boats, just last year. We're always open to submissions, ideas, and designs. Keep them coming, please--
Matt Murphy

[Old Sailor]

I miss the interactive on-line thingy.
Old Sailor

[Carl Cramer]

Slightly awkward on the updating, but we'll see how things go..

Thanks, Canoez. How is it awkward? Greg, our webmaster, has a fear that we'll get so much traffic here that we'll crash the Forum....

[Thorne]

Why no real, full-featured search function in the WB Books section online? You can search the store but not books specifically.

[Carl Cramer]

I miss the interactive on-line thingy.
Old Sailor

Thanks, OS. Sadly (or whatever), there were too many difficulties with that platform. Here at the Forum, readers can post a week in advance = big improvement.

But we shall see..........

[Canoez]

Thanks, Canoez. How is it awkward? Greg, our webmaster, has a fear that we'll get so much traffic here that we'll crash the Forum....

Basically, the requirement to "update" the page to see new postings - not as smooth as the previous software you were using which automatically puts up the new posts.

[Scot]

Thorne:

via the Store site, it USED to pick-up any text in the search. We're talking to our host about it.

-Scot

[Carl Cramer]

Basically, the requirement to "update" the page to see new postings - not as smooth as the previous software you were using which automatically puts up the new posts.

Thanks, Canoez. Well, the old platform didn't do that "automatically." I had to click on each comment before it was posted (in order to weed out any.. inappropriate.. comments).

But this is worth a try, isn't it? Just hit "Refresh."

[Scot]

Canoez: does a refresh update quickly for you? Are you running in two browsers?

-Scot

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Hello everybody. Could we have something on "maintenance in a recession" - how to look after your boat economically?

[Canoez]

Karen,

For the "Getting Started in Boats" sections, I couldn't find any articles specifically on epoxy, reinforcements and fillers. Beginners tend to be intimidated by the use of epoxy and don't seem to go to the great resources provided by the vendors of these materials. Perhaps an article on the subject would be in order?

[Canoez]

Canoez: does a refresh update quickly for you? Are you running in two browsers?

-Scot

Only one browser at the moment - it refreshes fairly quickly.

[MPM]

Andrew: Good idea re: Maintenance in a Recession. Would you elaborate, please? What are your big questions on this topic?

Canoez: Another good idea: A Beginner's Guide to Epoxy.

[Carl Cramer]

Here's a rogue discussion carried out in a different part of this Forumette, concerning Phil Bolger:

Matt, way back in the early 80s I corresponded with PCB about a boat that I wanted to build for a summer holiday trip. After several letters he suggested that I seemed to have a very good idea of what was required and expressed the opinion that should I go ahead and draw the boat up myself I'd not come to much harm.
He even volunteered to critique the drawings! With that encouragement I did just that, he approved, and I've been drawing, and learning ever since. He got me rolling on what has been an intensely rewarding and interesting career as a small craft designer and without that push I'd possibly never have done it.
Would a short article to that effect be of interest for that feature?

John Welsford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPM
Capt. Charlie--
We are planning an article on Phil Bolger for our November issue. In the September issue, we're inviting contributions--words and photographs--from readers. We'll distill these contributions into a reader-written memorial for Bolger. We're seeking 300-or-so-word pieces that speak of the impact Phil had on individuals' lives and boatbuildling careers. Obviously, we won't be able to publish everything we receive, but we'll choose carefully--and we'll choose variety.

In the next issue (September) we'll dedicate the entire Launchings section to Phil. The Bobcat you mentioned will be included there.

Hoping this clarifies our plans---

Matt Murphy

[Paul Pless]

Paul (and John)--
John's a great innovator in the world of Small Boats. In fact, we featured one of his designs, Pathfinder, in our special edition, Small Boats, just last year. We're always open to submissions, ideas, and designs. Keep them coming, please--
Matt Murphy


I agree, what I really like specifically, from Mr. Welsford are his diaries about the genesis of his designs on through the design spiral and then into construction. What's also particularly cool about some of John's online work is being able to read his thoughts on a boat, its design, and construction and then being able to read an update from the end user of that boat about how he or she uses it to camp cruise or daysail or what have you. . .

[Tom Jackson]

When I started doing Currents some years ago, one of the things I wanted to do was include longer "across the bar" items on people close to wooden boats. Many of these people have had fascinating lives, and I think that has been a good addition, where some years back we had only a line or two on people. I'm glad we're doing something on Phil Bolger (and I've built to one of his designs). But my view is that there's a limit on how much we want to do when people die. This comes up enough that if we did long tributes we would have quite a lot of the magazine devoted to it. To me, a short, tightly written obituary is the best.

[Carl Cramer]

I agree, what I really like specifically, from Mr. Welsford are his diaries about the genesis of his designs on through the design spiral and then into construction. What's also particularly cool about some of John's online work is being able to read his thoughts on a boat, its design, and construction and then being able to read an update from the end user of that boat about how he or she uses it to camp cruise or daysail or what have you. . .

I agree with you, Paul. John does such a good job that I'm going to ask to him be a guest contributor to "My Wooden Boat of the Week" in some future week.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Maintenance in a recession - It seems to me that there will be quite a few people wondering "should I keep my boat?" (we all know the answer to that one - rationally, no you should not but emotionally yes you should - and one of the effects of this is that the boat gets looked at less often and goes down hill.

Now, there may be ways to enjoy your boat and spend less on her

These will vary regionally but here are some thoughts:

can we perhaps:

for big boats:

scrub the boat on posts instead of slipping her?

keep her on a swinging mooring or even in a mud berth?

for big and small boats:

do our own canvas work on covers, etc?

paint over the varnish?

use cheaper paints?

repair things that we might have thrown away?

[KE Wales]

Canoez,

Your idea is a good one. In Apprentice's Workbench (No. 207) Greg discusses mechanical fastenings but he doesn't cover chemical bonds there.

Thanks,

Karen

[Longbow]

I'm currently building the Babson Island 14 from plans and am almost ready to flip it over. I've had several questions that the forum has helped me with, but it would be great if there was some way to contact the designer with questions. As I understand it there used to be a forum dedicated to the Getting Started in Boats series. Was there not enough interest in that to keep it going? I also found a few things that I think need to be corrected or clarified in the plans and the 2 articles to help future builders. Is there a specific person that I could talk to about those? On a different note, I read Rudy Choy's book Catamarans Offshore when I was 12 or 13 and have owned a copy for 30 years. I would really like to see an article on him and some of his boats from the early days featured. Thanks!

[Scot]

Longbow:
We can give you Tom Hill's address.

[MPM]

Thanks, Longbow. Check out WB No. 202. It has a great feature by Jim Brown on the modern multihull pioneers, and Rudy Choy is one of them--
MPM

[wbrobin]

Hi Longbow,

What are your questions for Tom Hill?

[Russ Manheimer]

With respect to Andrew's suggestion, perhaps a small piece on helping an owner decide whether to do a repair him/herself or turn it over to a professional. Common repairs with a cost/benefit analysis, common pitfalls, suggestions from professionals, etc.

[Carl Cramer]

Thanks, Longbow. Check out WB No. 202. It has a great feature by Jim Brown on the modern multihull pioneers, and Rudy Choy is one of them--
MPM

And we got hear from Rudy's son, Barry, at last year's WoodenBoat Tribute during the 2008 WoodenBoat Show. A very talented family.

[KE Wales]

Hi Canoez,

Looks like my previous reply was lost in the ether. Yes, your idea on an introduction to epoxy and fillers is a good one. Thanks,

Karen

[Carl Cramer]

Another rogue entry from elsewhere that might merit discussion. Scot responded with past articles:

NOW here is a story that should be covered in WoodenBoat magazine...there is time in hand to do it justice in an article:

We are coming up to the centenary of Jack Holt's birth (1912) in 2012.

Arguably the greatest dinghy designer of all time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ho...nghy_designer)

The Cadet, the Enterprise, the GP14, the Heron, the Hornet, the Lazy E, the Miracle, the Mirror, the Solo, the Streaker, the Vagabond and that's just the one designs - he also designed for most of the restricted classes and development classes.

His business partner was Beecher Moore, who besides being conveniently American from the reader interest point of view would make an article in his own right (invented the trapeze - on his Thames Rater, etc...)

And of course Holt-Allen are very much in business.

(OBTW - yes the Mirror was the first stitch and tape boat and was a joint effort by Jack Holt and Barry Bucknell the "TV DIY expert" of the 1960s and proverbially Holt was brought in to "breathe on" Bucknell's original design, but not so many people know that Bucknell was a 10sq.m.IC sailor)

Back when we used to run the WOOD Regatta (and are reviving), we had a great fleet of Mirrors from CT. I believe eight of them participated. I hope they are still thriving.

[Carl Cramer]

For those in North America interested in building a Mirror, it IS available as a kit. Plans are NOT available, per class rules.

For more information, go here:

http://usmirrorsailing.com/default.aspx

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Carl I appreciate the past articles but I was hoping that you could do a centenary article on Holt for three years time. I think it would be topical, with new angles, and easy to illustrate well. Not so many people are aware of the role of Beecher Moore, for example.

[Carl Cramer]

I was happily munching on the sandwich which Lefty was kind enough to make me: Ham, cheese, Miracle Whip, on Wonderbread.

Why, then, am I feeling queazy?

It may be time to say Goodbye for today.

We'll get the new thread up for next week. Please post your questions there for responses next Tuesday.

[SaltyD from BC]

I'd love to see WB take a look at the recent interest in the little West Coast Handliner boats. Open double enders designed to row and troll for salmon before engines were the norm. Larry Westlake drew some plans from a few remaining examples a few years back and a few are being built. Including one to be put together at the Silva Bay school.

See Larry's site for the most information. http://westlakeboats.ca/
And Tad Roberts for information on a build at the school this winter.

[Tom Jackson]

Thanks, all!

[Carl Cramer]

Carl I appreciate the past articles but I was hoping that you could do a centenary article on Holt for three years time. I think it would be topical, with new angles, and easy to illustrate well. Not so many people are aware of the role of Beecher Moore, for example.

Thank you for your suggestion, Andrew. I'm sure our editors will consider it.

We'll see you all next week. And thank you all for joining us today....

[wbrobin]

I was just reading the new biography on Iain Oughtred this morning, and I read that he would like to update the Mirror design.

[KE Wales]

See you next week,

Karen

[Russ Manheimer]

Thank you WB!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Bye!

[john welsford]

Thanks, all. A reminder of how it works:

Post your questions in this thread. Specifically in this thread.

We'll read and respond to them here when we login at noon.

Questions for the editors; questions for Scot and the WoodenBoat Store; questions for the WoodenBoat School, etc.

We'll reply to as many of them as we can. There should be a good degree on online chaos.... and that's generally good.

Once today's session is over, we will post a NEW thread for next week's session. If you'd like us to respond to those questions next Tuesday, place them in the "Tuesday, August 11, 2009" thread. etc. I'm sure you can follow along.

Oh, and John Welsford: While you're sitting fireside in NZ, we're all scrambling, looking for fog-cutters.

"See" you at noon. Eastern US Daylight time. Thanks, Carl

Well, yawn, scratch stretch mumble! Its 5 am here, and I could not sleep so thought I'd come and join in.

Morning all!

John Welsford

[Longbow]

I've resolved most of the issues, but since I had never built a boat before some things were confusing to me. Don't misunderstand me I am very happy with the plans and articles so far, but I thought being a true beginner that I might make some mistakes that others might make as well. Here's a quick list of the things that I questioned:
1) The GSIB article calls for 100 1" x 8, 100 1.5 in. x 8, 100 1.75 in. x 8 and 100 1.75 in. x 12 screws. For the plywood version, you end up with a lot of expensive silicon bronze screws left over . Also later in the article it calls for 1.25 x 8 screws which aren't mentioned in the beginning. It would also be helpful to state which size screws are used and where.

2) The plans give full size pattern for the molds, but don't give dimensions for the chine logs. The article describes the frames as having a 1 1/8 x 3/4 in notch which provides a 3/8 in gap above the chine for water to pass. this would indicate that the chine is 3/4 x 3/4 which doesn't correspond to the plans.

3) It would be nice to show an overhead view of the boat especially the inner and outer stem as was done in the Lumberyard Skiff plans. I ended up cutting the inner stem wrong because I didn't realize that the top was supposed to be left unbeveled.

4) I was tempted to bevel the molds to make the sheer ribband and the chinelog lie flush instead of just contacting the corner of each mold, but I decided not to. When you look at it, it seems like it needs to be done, but I decided that I'd better not. I think that this will be a temptation to others as well.

5) Although the GSIB drawings are great, a good picture could really provide more detail.

I realize that most of these things wouldn't be a problem for somebody who had some experience, but as a novice they were to me. Thanks.

[john welsford]

Carl, You will have an envelope from me arrive on your desk anytime about now, let me know what you think.

John Welsford

I couldn't agree more, Andrew. John Welsford and I are scheming. And I'm not holding up my end of the bargain at the moment....

[john welsford]

Thanks Paul. It sounds as though its well past time I updated what I am doing in my Pilgrim Diaries, I've been drawing rather than building of late but its time I got on with it,

John Welsford

I agree, what I really like specifically, from Mr. Welsford are his diaries about the genesis of his designs on through the design spiral and then into construction. What's also particularly cool about some of John's online work is being able to read his thoughts on a boat, its design, and construction and then being able to read an update from the end user of that boat about how he or she uses it to camp cruise or daysail or what have you. . .

[Bob Cleek]

Hello again,

I would like to respond to Peter's question about boatbuilding woods. Peter, have you seen our Getting Started article in issue 203? There, we have reprinted a list of boatbuilding wood species compiled by Dick Jagels.
We didn't mention suppliers there but that list alone is worth the price of admission, I think.

Karen

Sorry, but I was stuck in court all morning and missed this, which went down at 09:00 here on the Left Coast.

Just a comment... I have in my library a copy (found in a used bookstore) of a WB publication titled something like "Directory of Boatbuilding Wood Suppliers" (Or, maybe it's "Directory of Wooden Boatbuilders.") It's old and I've never seen it listed for sale or referenced of late. I believe it was perhaps a spin-off one of Peter Specter's BI (New designation, like "BC," "Before Internet.") "Mariner's Catalogs." Anyhow, I recall it has a list of boatbuilding woods and lumber yards selling various species in it... This is just from memory, since I don't have it in hand at the moment. Perhaps it might be worth an update and reissue. I'm sure you know the volume.

Also, I think WB would do well to consider expanding its "hard goods" marketing beyond the "dream toys" and good book selection in the WBStore. High priced bronze (?) sounding leads are fine if you like such gronicles, but where does one find a replacement acrylic dome for the once ubiquitous Wilcox-Crittenden masthead lights? Catalogs like the "Mariners Catalogs" have a short half-life. I look at my copies from time to time and find myself so often frustrated that great things used to be available that aren't anymore. (Wilcox-Crittenden's bronze fittings were flushed by the Thetford Toilet Co. Whatever happened to the Richmond Ring Co. that made the legendary Shipmate stove line remains an unsolved mystery.) Such printed "Whole Boatbuilding Catalogs" probably aren't practical in this day and age, but I'd like to suggest (easy for me to say!) WB consider setting up something along the lines of an Amazon.com for wooden boatbuilders. Obviously, the WBStore cannot practically stock all the esoterica we are so often looking for. The flooring cost would be prohibitive. Still, the forumites are forever sharing information on where hard to find supplies, fitting and materials can be found. Pulling those few manufacturers left together in a web-based marketing program like Amazon's (order on the website - shipped from the manufacturer - commission to the webmaster) just might be a remunerative effort for WB, and one most useful to all of us. Imagine if Toplicht and Davey and Co.'s entire catalogs were on line in one place and you could fill your "shopping cart" with a click of the mouse!

Also, maybe this has been done before, but I'd sure like to read an article by a chemist on bottom paint for wooden hulls. The eco-nazi's have outlawed decent bottom paint because it kills marine life. (DUH!) Some of us have been mixing our own for a while, but now it seems the poisons we used to add aren't available anymore, either. (If you know where one can obtain tributyltin oxide in a solvent suspension these days... inquiring minds want to know!) So many of the new "green" hard bottom paints seem designed for plastic or metal hulls. Copper alone don't cut it, as we all know. There's a real need for effective moonshine bottom paint and, please, something more scientific than "put cayenne pepper in it."

[S B]

Now that the thread is up and running, there is something I would like to see in WB,why boats were built the way they were, not how. The logic behind the designs seems lost, to me at least, and might need to see the light of day again.

[Carl Cramer]

Thanks so much, Bob. We are always grappling with some variations of what you are talking about with directories and catalogs. In fact, we'll have some interesting news to impart shortly in a similar vein.

For example, at present I am moonlighting as the new editor/updater of Bob Steward's wonder "The Boatbuilding Manual." One of the beauties and perils of the previous editions has been the Suppliers section of each chapter. It is guaranteed that as each edition was printed, x% of those companies would have been bought/sold/moved/or out of business by the time the book came out. For this version, then, we'll be listing them online instead. Certainly the internet gives us a much more timely way to make changes.

And thanks for your good suggestions. I'm sure the editors will explore them.

Best wishes, Carl

Sorry, but I was stuck in court all morning and missed this, which went down at 09:00 here on the Left Coast.

Just a comment... I have in my library a copy (found in a used bookstore) of a WB publication titled something like "Directory of Boatbuilding Wood Suppliers" (Or, maybe it's "Directory of Wooden Boatbuilders.") It's old and I've never seen it listed for sale or referenced of late. I believe it was perhaps a spin-off one of Peter Specter's BI (New designation, like "BC," "Before Internet.") "Mariner's Catalogs." Anyhow, I recall it has a list of boatbuilding woods and lumber yards selling various species in it... This is just from memory, since I don't have it in hand at the moment. Perhaps it might be worth an update and reissue. I'm sure you know the volume.

Also, I think WB would do well to consider expanding its "hard goods" marketing beyond the "dream toys" and good book selection in the WBStore. High priced bronze (?) sounding leads are fine if you like such gronicles, but where does one find a replacement acrylic dome for the once ubiquitous Wilcox-Crittenden masthead lights? Catalogs like the "Mariners Catalogs" have a short half-life. I look at my copies from time to time and find myself so often frustrated that great things used to be available that aren't anymore. (Wilcox-Crittenden's bronze fittings were flushed by the Thetford Toilet Co. Whatever happened to the Richmond Ring Co. that made the legendary Shipmate stove line remains an unsolved mystery.) Such printed "Whole Boatbuilding Catalogs" probably aren't practical in this day and age, but I'd like to suggest (easy for me to say!) WB consider setting up something along the lines of an Amazon.com for wooden boatbuilders. Obviously, the WBStore cannot practically stock all the esoterica we are so often looking for. The flooring cost would be prohibitive. Still, the forumites are forever sharing information on where hard to find supplies, fitting and materials can be found. Pulling those few manufacturers left together in a web-based marketing program like Amazon's (order on the website - shipped from the manufacturer - commission to the webmaster) just might be a remunerative effort for WB, and one most useful to all of us. Imagine if Toplicht and Davey and Co.'s entire catalogs were on line in one place and you could fill your "shopping cart" with a click of the mouse!

Also, maybe this has been done before, but I'd sure like to read an article by a chemist on bottom paint for wooden hulls. The eco-nazi's have outlawed decent bottom paint because it kills marine life. (DUH!) Some of us have been mixing our own for a while, but now it seems the poisons we used to add aren't available anymore, either. (If you know where one can obtain tributyltin oxide in a solvent suspension these days... inquiring minds want to know!) So many of the new "green" hard bottom paints seem designed for plastic or metal hulls. Copper alone don't cut it, as we all know. There's a real need for effective moonshine bottom paint and, please, something more scientific than "put cayenne pepper in it."

[Carl Cramer]

Now that the thread is up and running, there is something I would like to see in WB,why boats were built the way they were, not how. The logic behind the designs seems lost, to me at least, and might need to see the light of day again.

Very good idea, SB. Thanks, Carl

[Paul Pless]

So Carl, Scot, Matt... is this type of thread were you were hoping for?

[Scot]

Paul: Yes, I'd say so. But, more importantly, what about you?

I'm not concerned about the extra threads starting... just didn't want it to get too scattered about. Ideally editors will follow Carl's lead, and grab a comment and paste it into the 'dated' thread, to bring it into the realm of conversation.

-Scot

[peter radclyffe]

Hello again,

I would like to respond to Peter's question about boatbuilding woods. Peter, have you seen our Getting Started article in issue 203? There, we have reprinted a list of boatbuilding wood species compiled by Dick Jagels.
We didn't mention suppliers there but that list alone is worth the price of admission, I think.

Karen thanks Karen, ive seen some over 20 years in wb, but im still learning http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[CapnJ2ds]

Personally... selfishly... I'd like to see more boat plans offered and more boat plans catalogs and anthologies. To my knowledge WoodenBoat hasn't offerred any new plans for sale since the publication of Forty Wooden Boats - A Third Catalog of Building Plans; and actually some of the plans that were once available are no longer sold. Another book that brings me great pleasure is the Bray's book, Designs to Inspire. Its a very well crafted book with a great variety of lines and sailplans for those of us that don't live near libraries with books of boat plans or museums such as Mystic Seaport.
Ooh yes please! More designs, featured designs, commissioned designs, reviewed designs, revived-from-the-past designs, designers' bios with lots of their designs, and - Oh yes! - more designs.

[CapnJ2ds]

Oh... and another thing.;) Y'all need to commission some designs and some articles from John Welsford.
Yes!

[Bob Cleek]

I checked my shelves last night and discovered there were actually TWO WB books published. One was "Boatbuilding Woods - A Directory of Suppliers" and the other was "A Directory of Wooden Boatbuilders." Both great resources in their day and probably still useful, but surely in need of an update. There are so many posts in the forum by folks wondering where to buy various types of wood, and what wood they should use, I'd think the "Boatbuilding Woods" book, updated as to current suppliers, might be a good seller.

[Wayne Jeffers]

I agree that the Boatbuilding Woods: A Directory of Suppliers was a good resource in is day. Also that twenty years later it needs an update.

Suggestion: In lieu of a book, how about an on-line database of boatbuilding wood suppliers using the same format.

For those who haven’t seen the book, the format was organized by state, then alphabetically by company name in each state. For each entry they included company name, contact person, address, phone number, woods available (including species of domestic and imported woods and the dimensions available, types of plywood including sheet sizes and thicknesses), and the services available (e.g., custom milling, planning, shipping, wholesale or retail.)

Just a thought . . .

Wayne