Hello all... here's another newbie to educate

[nw_noob]

Hey everybody, first of all thank you to all of the experienced builders on this forum for taking your time to share your knowledge. I have learned much from reading this forum.

Here's my dilema:

I'm not wanting to build a wooden boat just for the sake of building one...however the boat I want doesn't seem to exist in production models... so plywood construction seems to be the best option for my budget.

What I'm looking at is an ocean capable high-sided dory/skiff kind of boat with a small cabin, and a swing keel or centerboard, and a sail (junk rig looks best for me). I'm not an experienced sailer, so the sail option is basicaly just a fuel saver for when the wind is being co-operative, and to serve as a ridge pole for full canvas. I'm in the northwest, and looking to head to S.E. Alaska waters... so my ideal finished boat would be along the lines of a C-dory cruiser only tougher, more beachable, and w/a sail. I'm looking at the Glen-L "St. piere dory" hull with some mod's based off other Glen-L dory and skiff designs. I've done some construction and woodworking, but never boat construction. I realize building a 26 ft. coastal water boat is a prety tall order for a novice, which is why I'm thinking I should build this hull in 1/2 size before I tackle the full size version.

So my question is: will an exact 1/2 size boat (minus the cabin)act the same in the water as it's full size "sis"? What I would have is a 13 ft long dory-type boat with a 4 ft beam, outboard, sail and centerboard. I know many boats this size are built stitch and glue, but I want to stick w/ skin on frame just like big sis would be, so I have a chance to tinker w/ the changes I want to make.

Thoughts... suggestions... let 'er rip.

[mizzenman]

You can't just scale down the design by 50%. The displacement would become too small

[htom]

... So my question is: will an exact 1/2 size boat (minus the cabin)act the same in the water as it's full size "sis"? ...
Thoughts... suggestions... let 'er rip.

Absolutely not, even with the cabin in the model. I'll start by suggesting you first build a Bolger Gloucester Light Dory. (http://www.instantboats.com/ggull.htm)

[James McMullen]

1/2 the length times 1/2 the length equals 1/4 the displacement--and almost certain disaster. Here's an idea for a proven small boat of simple plywood construction that would work fine with a junk rig: a Great Pelican.

[Thorne]

There should be a number of boats close to or exactly what you spec above, and you'll be far better off building something already designed and proven than trying to teach yourself marine design.

From your question ( a good one, by the way) I'm assuming you don't know much about marine design. Neither do I. But rather than reinvent the wheel, why not just find a design that meets your needs and build that? Any significant modifications can be worked out with the designer if you get plans from a living (and responsive) designer.

[Bob Cleek]

What, exactly, do you mean by "ocean capable." If you are talking about a dory you can launch off the beach and do a bit of inshore gunkholing in when the weather is nice, fine. If you are planning to sail offshore in Southern Alaskan waters, I suggest you charter a boat or go on a cruise and take a good look at what your boat needs to be capable of handling. If you are "not wanting to just build a boat," in the present market, you could get a lot more boat for a lot less money, and likely a better boat at that, by buying a used one. You'd be sailing a whole lot faster than trying to build a comparable boat yourself.

[nw_noob]

Thanks guys... volume didn't even enter my mind:o... man I got a lot to learn lol.

As far as "mod's" I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel... just add a full rub strip down the keel, and a couple on each side of the bottom for "beach-kindness"... and maybe swap out the well mounted motor for a flatter transom and a motot mount/lift... nothing major altered from the basic dory design.

But it sounds like I'd better just pick a different boat for a starter project. More suggestions/advice are welcomed.

[johnw]

1/2 the length times 1/2 the length equals 1/4 the displacement--and almost certain disaster. Here's an idea for a proven small boat of simple plywood construction that would work fine with a junk rig: a Great Pelican.

1/2 length X 1/2 breadth X 1/2 depth. !/8 displacement, 1/4 area.

[mizzenman]

Did I get you right, you want a 13ft centerboarder with a cabin that is offshore capable and and will be used as a live-aboard in a cold climate?

Maybe this one will do. But don't take it offshore, and bring extra whollen underwear!!
http://www.cmdboats.com/catbird16.htm?cart_id=c0b6374326698dee335a71ff0332 3e80

[Thorne]

Sure seems like some of the St. Pierre Dory designs out there would work well for your needs -

https://www.glen-l.com/designs/hankinson/kh-images/056ultra-sail.jpg
http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=892

http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_wood/images/GB22-sailing.gif
http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_wood/grandbanks22.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr2iXxXMLGQ&feature=related

[Spokaloo]

So what you want is a 27', simply built St Pierre with lots of support and available information from those who built it?

http://www.nexusmarine.com/st_pierre.html

Done. Skip the scale building thing, build a dink that will work as a tender for your future dream boat, and figure it out. If you can build a bird house you can build a boat. Im proof of that...

http://www.nexusmarine.com/images/27%27StPierre/Exteriors/at_anchor.jpg

[nw_noob]

Did I get you right, you want a 13ft centerboarder with a cabin that is offshore capable and and will be used as a live-aboard in a cold climate?

Maybe this one will do. But don't take it offshore, and bring extra whollen underwear!!
http://www.cmdboats.com/catbird16.htm?cart_id=c0b6374326698dee335a71ff0332 3e80


LOL .... no, you did NOT get me right... the 13 ft model was to be a learning experience for building the 26ft w/cabin... and as to ocean capable I'm talking about S.E. Alaska inside passage waters where there are little bays everywhere to hide out in, and any major crossings can be timed for favorable conditions... I'm not trying to circumnavigate the globe or anything:rolleyes:

As for buying a used boat... I've been looking, a cabin cruiser would be great... if I owned an oil well. A 24-27 ft fiberglass sailboat would be great... except I'm 6'8" tall and headroom would be a pain... literaly, and beaching isn't an option. A nice aluminum sea skiff like the commercial fishermen use would be nice... but spendy and not so well suited for camping in... and so the search goes on.

[nw_noob]

So what you want is a 27', simply built St Pierre with lots of support and available information from those who built it?

http://www.nexusmarine.com/st_pierre.html

Done. Skip the scale building thing, build a dink that will work as a tender for your future dream boat, and figure it out. If you can build a bird house you can build a boat. Im proof of that...

http://www.nexusmarine.com/images/27%27StPierre/Exteriors/at_anchor.jpg

cool boat... I bet you can build one heck of a birdhouse now:D... that + sail rig is about what I've got in mind. Thanks for the link

[Spokaloo]

Not my boat, but I do build a sick birdhouse

E

[johnw]

Not my boat, but I do build a sick birdhouse

E
Slick?

Or ill?

Or, accommodation for the medical treatment of indigent avians?

[Peerie Maa]

6' 8"? The only way you'll stand up in a sail boat is in the cockpit.
Go for a layout where everything can be accomplished sitting, and the headroom is so low that you will not be tempted to try to stand up.

[I, Rowboat]

6' 8"? The only way you'll stand up in a sail boat is in the cockpit.
Go for a layout where everything can be accomplished sitting, and the headroom is so low that you will not be tempted to try to stand up.

So true!
Or you can do what I did: Saw off your feet above the ankles, remove several inches from your tibia and fibia, then re-attach your feet. Voila! I had never seen such headroom! I'm a changed man, plus I don't even notice when my feet fall asleep!

[JimD]

Even a small boat is a lot of work. But start by building a small boat that is similar in design and construction method to the bigger boat, but as everyone says, not merely a scaled down version. There's a gazzilion small, simple dories you could start with. Here's a real cutie that could be great fun to learn on:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/SharpieDory.htm#SIG12'10" SIGNET DORY http://www.selway-fisher.com/Signetd1.gif
12’10’’ x 3’10’’, (24’’ beam at chine). Approx. wht. 55 lbs. A delightful little fun dory for single fishing and rowing. The plans show a simple unstayed sprit boom sailing rig with a hook on leeboard although she will also take a daggerboard. Can be built in 2 identical halves which fit inside each other for car topping on a Mini. Construction is simple stitch and tape and basic DIY materials can be used. Details are also given for a transom version. 12' 10" Signet Dory Particulars
LOA12' 10"3.91mBeam3' 10"1.17mHull Mid Depth12 1/4"0.31mDraft4 1/2"0.11mSail Area36 sq.ft3.35 sq.mApprox. Dry Weight55 lbs24.9 kgHull Shape
Flat bottom single chine double ended dory type - drawings also give details for a wide transom modification and a version with wider bottom beam.Construction MethodStitch and tapeMajor plywood requirements for hull3 sheets of 6mm exterior or marine plywoodGuidance Use1 adult (2 in wide transom version)Drawing/Design Package3 x A1 drawings + 5 x A4 instruction sheets

[Neil W]

I too am quite new to this community, and so unable to give any advice of my own, but I would suggest a few books if you have yet to read any. There're quite a few listed in my opening thread titled, " Me, the Forum, and my first boat". Good luck with your cruiser.