gozzo

[peter radclyffe]

http://791.photobucket.com/albums

[BETTY-B]

The link doesnt work for me. What's gozzo?

DAN

[peter radclyffe]

gozzo is a small day boat

[peter radclyffe]

i havent the right link

[Peerie Maa]

Just search the site for gozzo. Found one image of a Gozzo boat in frame, are there more?

[peter radclyffe]

im illiterate on the computer, ive put one image up, i dont know why it wont link, im building this, i guess its the same in frame

[BETTY-B]

is this it? Cool.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009005.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

thanks, i started building this to take our family & friends round the bay, its opepe framing, like iroko

[peter radclyffe]

thanks for putting it up Betty-b, i wish i could understand the process

[Thorne]

Here’s how to post photos on this forum:

First - don’t attach photos. Most web forums don’t allow it, and space limitations are the main reason why.

Second - Instead of attaching them to a thread, post the pics on the web somewhere. You have a free website area with any paid ISP’s email account, or use www.picturetrail.com, flickr, photobucket or other free image hosting service.

Once posted on the web, right-click the image to copy the URL (web address). Always test first by pasting the image URL into the window of a web browser and see if the image displays.

Remember, the IMAGE URL will end in .jpg, not .htm or html. URLs ending in .htm are the page that the image is at, not the image location itself. If the image URL ends in other code, try deleting everything after the “xxxxxx.jpg” part of the URL to get it to display on web forums.

Third - once posted on the web, try this procedure while logged in to this Forum:

1. Click the “User CP” link in the browser window in the top left of the menu bar.

2. Click the “Edit Options” link about 1/4 of the way down the left column.

3. In the “Misc Options” at the bottom of the next page, select “Enhanced Interface” from the pulldown list.

4. Once this interface has been selected, in any “Reply” window you can click the “insert photo” icon --> a little yellow square icon with the stamp in the upper right corner, the mountains in the lower center.

5. Once the little dialog box titled “Please enter the URL of your image” comes up, paste the URL of the photo in the field.

If unsure of the procedure, test first by pasting the image URL into the window of a web browser.

[NYCKiwi]

Looking good Peter. So what design is she?

[peter radclyffe]

its my design

[peter radclyffe]

Thorne thanks, im still trying to make it work

[NYCKiwi]

its my design

Fantastic. I'm looking forward to watching your progress.
John

[ahp]

A Gozo Boat was a two masted lateen rigged vessel that carried passengers and cargo in the neighborhood of Malta.

[PeterSibley]

its my design

:):) Very nice Peter ! Is there anything on paper ? I'd love to see more .

[peter radclyffe]

thank you Peter , John , & co there are more photos on photobucket, im trying to work out how to post them, this boat started a few years ago when there was some spare framing from patience, we had to buy the trees for solid stems, keels, so i asked for the rest to be cut at 4" slabs, for beams, lodging knees ,blocking, eking, chocks, mast collar etc.
so i carved a half model , lofted & cut out the centreline & frames, over the last few months ive been putting her together, the idea was to have a safe boat for 2 families, should we get caught out in a blow on the island, i figured 20 ft was minimum, 8 ft beam, 3 ft draft , 1 inch larch planking on 1 inch x 3 inch frames, this is only for motor, maybe volvo 30 hp ,probably decked, but it could have only floorboards if someone wanted a sailing version , for which reason i also hung the rudder outboard, ive learnt a lot from this forum about the sort of boat many people want which appears to be, a trailer sailer 16-22 ft or so, but this is really too heavy for that, tho another one could have a centreboard, its important here that a boat is fairly shallow to take the beach, 90% of the time here a boat could be lightly built, but then for bad weather a boat needs to be 3 times stronger , its a knockabout boat, cheap galv fastenings, the framing may appear heavy, but how many times just on this forum have we read about broken frames, sure light frames are for speed, but this displacement hull as you know is speed limited, maybe 6-7 knots

[peter radclyffe]

during those days i was working on lulworth on my own, no one had worked on her for 12 years, & she was distorted, so i faired her in, reshaped her, battened, & patterned her, every frame, & centreline structural piece, then reverse lofted her & made a new lines plan, talk about stress.
in the mornings 5-6 with my 3 year old daughters help i lofted the gozzo, so another 6 months, may see her launched

[PeterSibley]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009005.jpg

Peter ,is this a current photo ? Have you begun planking as yet ?

[peter radclyffe]

this is current, while im waiting for planking, im fitting engine beds, cutting deck beams, patterning planking, gunnel etc

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009001.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

an italian friend has just taught me how to post this on this italian computer, so i shall tell you more

[RFNK]

You can see the picture now but it's tiny! Rick

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009006.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

how about that Rick

[RFNK]

Perfect! Frames look great - now we need more :D!! Rick

[PeterSibley]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009006.jpg

This photo is great Peter :) , the other one is a thumbnail ...very small .

She's a lovely job of boatbuilding ...what are the frames spacings ?

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009009.jpg

[NYCKiwi]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009009-1.jpg

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009006.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

the frames are 300mm spacing, the centreline is about 100 x 110 mm, hog 25 x 150, the deck maybe 12mm teak on 12mm ply

[PeterSibley]

I love that sternpost !

[peter radclyffe]

Peter the frames are planed flat for planks to save hollowing/rounding the back of planks , the width of planks is about 4" above the waterline, & about 5" below as the topside planks will dry out like in a frypan,so best to keep the seams small, i may hang every other plank, let them dry, then every other shutter,
italys sort of laid back on the beach in august, so i'll maybe get the planking in september

[peter radclyffe]

nyckiwi thanks for resizing the photos http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Peerie Maa]

Do you plan to finish her like the original Maltese Gozzo boats?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3241/2887098676_61e120257d.jpg

[PeterSibley]

Peter the frames are planed flat for planks to save hollowing/rounding the back of planks , the width of planks is about 4" above the waterline, & about 5" below as the topside planks will dry out like in a frypan,so best to keep the seams small, i may hang every other plank, let them dry, then every other shutter,
italys sort of laid back on the beach in august, so I'll maybe get the planking in september

That was commonly done in Australia on workboats when planking was used green off the saw .

[peter radclyffe]

Peter it seems a good system, in england we wouldnt need it but oz of course is so hot
Peerie that gozzo looks lovely but i will keep it simple

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img024.jpg" radclyffe 26ft mfv yacht"></a>
while i'm waiting for the planking, ive put the engine beds in, this boat is similar to a mfv yacht hull i designed & built, which was featured in Designs for Wooden Boatbuilding by Iain Oughtred 1990, i based it on the scots, spey class, miller fifer, eyemouth yachts, larch on oak

[Peerie Maa]

I have read that "put and shut" was common in Cornwall. It was said to be faster as only half of the planks needed top be spiled.

[peter radclyffe]

yes, & the first planks dont need caulking seams, except in the tuck

[peter radclyffe]

the planking needed careful consideration ,it’s best not to plank up edge to edge, because the seams will dry out in summer & the hull will be slack, I chose instead to hang every other strake,( I learnt this at Hinks in Appledore, when I served the second part of my self employed apprenticeship, it lets all the planks dry out & creates fairer plank runs, it buys time into spring when it will be warmer, mind the gaps, altho’ it’s more work-your planing , bevelling & caulkseaming 2 edges not one, where in northern climes the moisture might be 14-17 degrees, in the med it might be 8-10, after 25 years planking up in England & Ireland this is something else to get your head round, it’s no joke, learn your lessons well, or your mistakes will follow you round the country, as happened to a shipwright I knew, as those guys & girls on their hand pumps cursed him with every stroke as they emptied their bilges in winter in a Biscay Atlantic gale , it has advantages which are not initially apparent , it will hone your planking & fair edging skills, you need less cramps, wedges & blocks to hang a plank, as you don’t need to jam them shut, the seams are tighter because every other plank is dry, any seam hollow will not be accentuated ( aesthetically most important on a varnished hull, although structurally irrelevant), the planking gang have already covered the hull in planks once, so they are already aware of the hoods, nib ends, bevels, hollows, round, twist, caulking seams, curves & edge set in every part of the hull so for people unfamiliar or familiar with planking they now know the hull , so a rehearsal for the shutters-every other strake which then fly in , special care must be taken to increase the bevels in a wineglass hull tuck to ensure entry of shutters, normally from bilgestrake to garboard, midships to sternpost, unless she also has a hollow gripe, where the outer faces of the planks can be considerably smaller than the inner faces, spiling is 3-4 times faster than patterning which is why we use it, but it takes time to be confident spiling , time these apprentices didn’t have, so as they chose to pattern I left them to it, at least a pattern is reliable, & especially if you have one person patterning & another marking out, the capacity for error increases .
taken from
The Big Class

[peter radclyffe]

a similar hull 26ft i designed & builthttp://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img024.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img060.jpg
usually i'd spile the planks as its quicker, but here ive patterned them as i may make another boat

[Antonio Majer]

It's impressive how fast you are building that boat!
If we'd do a competition, you would win by 15 to 1 boat (worse then in the six nations...:D)
-----
btw, I notice you have fastened the odd planks on a side, the even on the other: may you explain why to me? (I have figured a reason, but I'm curious).

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img058.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img059.jpg
so while waiting for planking, i row around the harbour with my family

[peter radclyffe]

It's impressive how fast you are building that boat!
If we'd do a competition, you would win by 15 to 1 boat (worse then in the six nations...:D)
-----
btw, I notice you have fastened the odd planks on a side, the even on the other: may you explain why to me? (I have figured a reason, but I'm curious).
Antonio thanks but there not planks, there 6 mm plank patterns, i hung them both sides to see what she looks like

[Antonio Majer]

Silly of me, I thought it was a method! first to build the odd patterns, and then (now it comes the difficult part to explain, at least I hope to make you all laugh with my comic English...) to lay a large piece of plywood on the outside of the hull, between two already hanged patterns, and from the inside to draw with a pencil the profile of the empty space between them. If you have understood nothing, please give up, it's not so important.
===
Beautiful family, it seems to me that your kids have the same smile you probably have...

[peter radclyffe]

thanks, yes it can be done like that,
once you have hung every other plank, they will dry out , then you must check the shutter patterns are bigger than you need, cut the planks out bigger , then you can steam them round the nearest plank, or fit them straight away, depending on weather, hassle , etc

[Antonio Majer]

ah! I thought the shutter plank was only one (around the 6-7th) - well I'm only an amateur builder.

[peter radclyffe]

Antonio proviamo, si, mettere ogni secondo tavola fasciame, 1-3-5-etc, e dopo chiudi ogni altro (come si chiame shutter), persiane?pensi di no, mettere il smussa per calafata, solo on ogni tavola shutter,
heres some awful italian

[peter radclyffe]

in a cold country the shutter is often just one strake, but hey, you know how hot it gets here, its like a frying pan, so the seams can open up too much if you plank one above the other

[Antonio Majer]

:D
shutter means sportello too, but frankly I am not sure it may be the actual Italian tecnichal term for that plank. The fact is I have learned what I know from American/English manuals, in Italian there isn't anything comparable with them, and as you know the old Italian boatbuilders (the so called maestri d'ascia) are quite all already dead. In my region the last maestro d'ascia died three months ago, I have planned to visit him since years, now I'm too late.
---
your last post makes everything clear to me, thank you!

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.phttp://i791.phothttp://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img119.jpgobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img115.jpghotobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img116.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img122.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

the pine arrived so i lay it out, & try the patterns, & start planking

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img113.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img115.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img116.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img121.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img120.jpg
engine beds

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img125.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img127.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img126.jpg
while i was waiting for planking i made a half model for a friend i sailed on jolie brise with

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img130.jpg
& another one

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img131.jpg
made to my new lulworth lines plan

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img129.jpg
while my nephews rowing rivals practised in the bay

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img128.jpg
amerigo vespucci arrived

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img131-1.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

it took me over 4'000 measurements to fair her in & make this

[peter radclyffe]

& when classic boat saw it ,
as i was lying in hospital trying hard to stay alive
cue melodrama
they condemned my 4 years hard work as no more than a computer attempt to join the dots,
moan, whinge , bleat
so i had to ask myself
how many big class yachts had they built
the answer

[peter radclyffe]

talk about kicking a man when he's down

[Antonio Majer]

but how are you now?

[Peerie Maa]

talk about kicking a man when he's down

Nil illigitmi carborundum.

As one who has measured and lofted several old boats up to 64 foot long, I know that Classic Boat are talking out of their collective a##es.

Lovely fair set of lines.

[peter radclyffe]

antonio im alright when im building
thanks guys , i figured id let everybody else tell their stories before i told mine,
& this forum is a good place to tell
nick , boats what were you involved in

[Peerie Maa]

nick , boats what were you involved in

Several Lancashire nobbys, all 31 foot on deck, and the Harriet, the last Fleetwood built smack at 64 foot.
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/img.php?o=jpg&p=resizeTo&f=/original_images/harriet4.jpg&a[size]=420

[peter radclyffe]

is she by stoba

[Antonio Majer]

Pete, my father had a heart attack ten and more years ago, when he was quite 70. Funny thing, I would say now. The attack happened in the night, he didn't call for help; the next day, he was feeling very bad, but nevertheless he wanted not to be taken to the hospital. I still remember him saying "...I'd like only you to leave me in peace for a while...I'm suffering from a little attack of indigestion...I'll be well in a moment...I need a lemonade if any...".

Only the following day - 36 hours from the attack! - he allowed me to take him to the hospital. Funny. The doctor saying to me "How may it be possible?!!" and then "An engineer! an engineer! is he doctor maybe??" and quite shouting "He tried to treat a heart attack with a lemonade!!!" and so on. Funny. There are people who go to the hospital even for a pimple, my father did not go for a heart attack.

Anyway now he is 81 and still working; a heart attack is extremely dangerous, but the medical care is more and more effective and a beloved job may be the salvation. I for one have always had a good health as my mom had in her life. One day she discovered she was suffering from a liver cancer, and few months later died - well aging 80 though - so I cannot say what it's better. You have a wonderful family and your little kid seems so sensitive, I think you have to take care of yourself.

[peter radclyffe]

Antonio yes, theres no telling who it may call on, he sounds a tough guy your father

[Peerie Maa]

is she by stoba

No, Hugh Singleton.
One of the nobbys was by Stoba, I have the lines of Provider (not measured, just redrawn by me) and Arthur Alexander at 31 foot.

[peter radclyffe]

about your post of the mastra dascia, last november i wanted to tender/asta in december for new spars for one of the marina militare boats, capriccia, for which i needed to be registered as a shipwright with the capitanerie, portoferraio, so we emailed my cv, i went there & they said,
this is just pieces of paper anyone could have written it
i said it took my wife & i a long time to translate the cv
my wife didnt know a lot of the words, & she's a teacher, because who needs to know italian shipwright terms, no one except people like me
then they said i have to do a 2 year apprenticeship, to prove it
i said if a skipper cimes into port
does he have to do this
after the usual runaround
they could see i meant what i said
then they said i'll have to register
ok, where
they dusted off an old book, & looked at the last entry for a shipwright in the port
1974, a black & white photo
the guy is now dead
i cant stop laughing, its like monty pythons
& they wonder why its hard to get work as a shipwright here
i said, tell you what fellas
i'll build a boat then if you still dont believe me
we'll call it quits ,
i cannot rely on them for work
then i emailed magino timber merchants,
(without telling which boat it was for, they kept asking, )
for american mast & spar grade spruce, they wouldn't sell me any
because they wanted to build the masts
i tell you this place is just too funny sometimes
timber merchants sell timber, right , to anybody
unless your a boatbuilder http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Antonio Majer]

a tough guy
maybe yes...but maybe one should think of the others too, shouldn't he? I mean, a heart attack is often consequence of bad behaviors, isn't it? and when one is at risk of dying, he should do everything possible to save himself, shouldn't he? I'm thinking of my father, but frankly I bet you are very similar, sorry Pete.

[Antonio Majer]

about your post of the mastra dascia, last november i wanted to tender/asta in december for new spars for one of the marina militare boats, capriccia, for which i needed to be registered as a shipwright with the capitanerie, portoferraio, so we emailed my cv, i went there & they said,
this is just pieces of paper anyone could have written it
i said it took my wife & i a long time to translate the cv
my wife didnt know a lot of the words, & she's a teacher, because who needs to know italian shipwright terms, no one except people like me
then they said i have to do a 2 year apprenticeship, to prove it
i said if a skipper cimes into port
does he have to do this
after the usual runaround
they could see i meant what i said
then they said i'll have to register
ok, where
they dusted off an old book, & looked at the last entry for a shipwright in the port
1974, a black & white photo
the guy is now dead
i cant stop laughing, its like monty pythons
& they wonder why its hard to get work as a shipwright here
i said, tell you what fellas
i'll build a boat then if you still dont believe me
we'll call it quits ,
i cannot rely on them for work
then i emailed magino timber merchants,
(without telling which boat it was for, they kept asking, )
for american mast & spar grade spruce, they wouldn't sell me any
because they wanted to build the masts
i tell you this place is just too funny sometimes
timber merchants sell timber, right , to anybody
unless your a boatbuilder http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yes, it's a horrible place sometimes (I'm referring to disorganization, corruption, injustices), and many Italians prefer to go and live and work abroad for this, in England or USA for instance. But after all it's a wonderful place to live in too, as many photos of yours testify.

[peter radclyffe]

its a lovely place, i just wish i understood the procedures
then i can deal with it,
i didnt know some italians went abroad for this reason
but being part of europe it should in time all fall into the same eurobehaviour, if possible
i contacted the rome british embassy
& well they really couldn't be bothered
i sent my english goverment qualification to the port, sfia
no use bla blah http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[peter radclyffe]

maybe yes...but maybe one should think of the others too, shouldn't he? I mean, a heart attack is often consequence of bad behaviors, isn't it? and when one is at risk of dying, he should do everything possible to save himself, shouldn't he? I'm thinking of my father, but frankly I bet you are very similar, sorry Pete.
yeah boatbuilding like a ram for 35 years,
so ive packed in the drink & cigarettes
theres all sorts of food i cant eat , etc

[peter radclyffe]

No, Hugh Singleton.
One of the nobbys was by Stoba, I have the lines of Provider (not measured, just redrawn by me) and Arthur Alexander at 31 foot.
i dont know much about the n west, is some of your work for museums

[Peerie Maa]

i dont know much about the n west, is some of your work for museums

No, I work in a shipyard's design office. Harriet was measured because she was threatened with destruction. It may be our interest in her that saved her.
The nobbys were measured to illustrate a history of the type that I have been working on as a hobby. The collection includes three builders lift models, six actual boats and three reconstructed from photo's. I carved block models for two of these then measured the model. This is the model of the oldest nobby form, with a square tuck stern.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/peerie_maa/SquareTuckStern.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

Nick, what is your shipyard, is this pine you use, its good to see the wooden past being documented in an age of plastic
but i'm biased http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[peter radclyffe]

Antonio do you know of some italian sites for boats
& a site like photobucket, & one for articles

[peter radclyffe]

Several Lancashire nobbys, all 31 foot on deck, and the Harriet, the last Fleetwood built smack at 64 foot.
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/img.php?o=jpg&p=resizeTo&f=/original_images/harriet4.jpg&a[size]=420
i gues it was a sailing hull, then they moved the rudder aft, & fitted a log, what is the timber
do you have more pics of your collection

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img131.jpg
made to my new lulworth lines plan
each one of these lines is one of 75 frames i patterned,
fairlies didn't know how to measure her for the new lead keel, even tho' they had the original keel plans but no lines plan,
gerry dykestra had taken her lines off
years ago
so i lofted 5 of his frame patterns & tried them in the hull
they were not accurate enough to use, which is odd
because dykestra is no fool, stadt amsterdam, etc
so i had to think up a method to combine the scrieve board & lines plan
i suggested i fair the badly distorted hull ,pattern all the frames, & reverse loft them to make a body plan, from which could be extrapolated a lines plan proper, which is what i did
i then made the offsets tables

[Peerie Maa]

i gues it was a sailing hull, then they moved the rudder aft, & fitted a log, what is the timber
do you have more pics of your collection

Yes, originally a ketch. The bulwark around the counter used to be more elegant as well. She is pitch pine on oak and elm, tunnelled.
I have lots of photo's, but none scanned in to my PC.

My Shipyard?
1872 was to be called The Barrow Iron Shipbuilding Company, but someone had registered the "Iron" bit. Was bought by the Vickers family to become Vickers Sons and Maxim, then Vickers Armstrong, Then Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Ltd, now owned by BAE SYSTEMS.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/peerie_maa/VSEL.jpg

[Candyfloss]

Vickers Armstrong? Made armaments, motorbikes, other stuff?

[Peerie Maa]

Vickers Armstrong? Made armaments, motorbikes, other stuff?
Thread drift
Vickers had factories all over the North east as well. Don't think they did bikes. In addition to shipbuilding our site used to do everything from big marine diesels through to cement kilns.
End thread drift:o

[Peerie Maa]

Nick, what is your shipyard, is this pine you use, its good to see the wooden past being documented in an age of plastic
but i'm biased http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sorry, missed part of the question. The backboard is an off-cut of larch, the hull is carved from a piece of recycled soft wood post. The colour comes from the shellac finish.

[Lew Barrett]

Good thread!

[peter radclyffe]

if in doubt throw another cramp at ithttp://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img144.jpg
this is the first time iv'e used maritime pine for planking
its great, like elm
no steaming

[Antonio Majer]

...maritime pine...
well, the best of the best is the Pinus halepensis (pino d'Aleppo).

btw, where do you find that maritime pine? I was told it's quite impossible too find it now (in my region at least, i.e. North East Italy), unless you mill it by yourself.

[peter radclyffe]

campigli legnami at empoli, there are some segherie near lucca & siena, if you hear of any more let me know

[peter radclyffe]

the only pine ive used like it for bending which we replanked a w c t ketch irene in is pitch pine or longleaf yellow pine, & that smells even better

[peter radclyffe]

Antonio also do you know where i can get acacia ( ? black locust ) & eucalyptus for frames, & what is the difference between italian douglas & american

[Antonio Majer]

I'm living near Udine, North East Italy. Here Black Locust grows freely and I have milled it by myself; I like it because it has a gold yellow color. Otherwise I can find black locust coming from Hungary, it's darker, probably stronger (about 600 EUR/m³, as for larch). I'm not able to answer the other questions sorry.

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img156.jpg
lofting the gozzo before work & patterning lulworth during the day

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img168.jpg
we have an old house that needs rebuilding, a great place for a party http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Antonio Majer]

WOW! Saturnia?

[peter radclyffe]

just joking

[Antonio Majer]

you know what? I'm like a mullet lately: I bite always...

[peter radclyffe]

i thought you'd go for it http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009012.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

<a href="http://s791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/?action=view&current=GOZZO2009022.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/th_GOZZO2009022.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/GOZZO2009022.jpg

[Candyfloss]

Peter, can you explain to me please, what you are doing in that photo. No, I don't mean swimming. (Thought I'd get in first with that one!) That's Lullworth behind you with all her planks off & temporary planks clamped in place. Then what? What are those wooden clothes pegs? How does this help you establish her lines?

[peter radclyffe]

Candyfloss, those planks are ribbands, when i started work the hull was distorted, half the planks were missing, the wood & lead keels were off, the frames had lost there shape & strength, i worked out a method to pattern her frames
working a section at a time
i faired those ribbands, with wedges, plywood dogs, cramps

[Candyfloss]

Jeeze. What held her together? No, don't waste your time replying to that.

Gozzos looking good.

[peter radclyffe]

in that photo you can see i've engineer chalk marked the waterline with a laser, & paint marked the plank seams

[peter radclyffe]

these marks are then backed up with grinderette nicks

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img162.jpg
bevels are marked where they change , no more or less is needed , about every 3rd to 5th plank
this is my new aft body plan, from which i make, sheer height, keel depth, waterline and diagonal offset tables,
on a big wood framed hull 50 centermeter waterline spacing would be adequate, but as there is little room for error on shape & bevels, i doubled them to 25 cm spacing, because there was talk of making another hull, in any case this lines plan was used for the lead keel, the half models for a king & a prince among others, & for historical documentation etc

[peter radclyffe]

no one is to walk on this 9 x 7 metre loft floor, or it will soon get dirty

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img172.jpg
when you know where the engine is going
you can scale it up full size off the spec, in this case a volvo
& make a ply profile template
mark the engine feet
fix a batten to the top of the shaft line
the important points are
the gearbox flange
the sump, keep well above the floors
the height
the line of shaft
the intercostals placing
if you dont know what engine is going in, make the beds too low & too wide
you can then build them up to suit

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img171.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img173.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img174.jpg
bore a pilot hole for the sterntube before you plank the deadwood

[peter radclyffe]

its best not to fasten the plank ends in way of the tube until the tube is fastened, as its difficult to keep the nails clear of the boring bar, temp fasten them with screws & pads, so its clear they are temporary

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img175.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img176.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img169.jpg
& the planks go on

[Eric D]

Thank you for the updates, very special little boat there.

[peter radclyffe]

thanks Eric, my sister & her fella live on a boat in plymouth, they used to skipper & crew a handicapped boat on the gloucester canal, the organisation had a new boat built which was designed by graham westbrook, so
i sent him my offsets to check the trim & tonnage, & yesterday he sent me a lines plan, which i need to become approved as a builder by r i n a , italy

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img181.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/SternView.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img221.jpg
i found some old photos of an mfv/yacht i designed & built 20 years ago

[PeterSibley]

Hi Peter , the photos of the stern post and aft planking are interesting .It looks easier than the lines would make it appear .

Thanks for the update .

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img235.jpg
an aft shot for you Peter, 1" larch on 4 x 2 oak frames

[PeterSibley]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img176.jpg

Very impressive Peter .A great shape !

I'm interested in your frames , the cleats are quite short ...I'm used to the fully doubled version .Your version would be a lot lighter .

Any rules to observe re length of the oversection ?

[peter radclyffe]

it depends what the boat is for, a heavy fishing boat requires the frame siding x 12 for the cleats / clamps, but ive seen them shorter for lighter boats , so thats what im using, this siding is 25 mm, so 300 mm but some of the frames are 30mm but as long as the staggers are at least one plank , ok, but this moulding is much stronger than it needs so it should be ok
plus the planking is 20-25mm, where it only needs to be 20mm
the bigger hull is 50mm siding, but again heavier moulding,

[peter radclyffe]

one thing in particular is if you fit a bilge stringer, it is suddenly approaching a wooden girder, if you fit 2 or 3 bilge stringers & thru bolt every other fastening which we did on the big trawlers, there is great strength, then you have your 3 required strong points on a heavy hull, deck, bilge & keel, the french build their centrelines even stronger moulding as their taking the ground in 4 metre tides with 8-10 knot currens, but no hog, so it varies place to place, my training for fishing boats is sfia, what used to be whitefish authority, which is english scantling rules,

[PeterSibley]

Hi Peter,
I've been planning quite heavy construction .Either sawn frames at 700 mm (station spacing )with 2 bent between .The sawn to be doubled 90x45 tapering to 70 at the heads .Bent frames double layer of 45x17 .

or

sawn frames as above on 350mm centres .The deciding factor will be whether I have enough material for all sawn ...I think I do.
Both to have a 300 wide layer of 35mmx 70mm hardwood stringers at the bilge .

If bent ,blocking to fill bent frames to stringers .

Copper riveted .

[peter radclyffe]

well that seems strong enough, on these scantling rules marie michon double sawn frames , siding 40mm,
moulding at keel 115, bilge 90, deck 75
spacing 360 mm

[PeterSibley]

That's about right .What size fastenings in the frames ?

Plans are for copper bolts , 1/2" at the bottom and floors , then 3/8 " , then 5/16" at the top .Decreasing size as the loads reduce .Lots of fastenings too , say 5 each side of a joint ?

[peter radclyffe]

That's about right .What size fastenings in the frames ?

Plans are for copper bolts , 1/2" at the bottom and floors , then 3/8 " , then 5/16" at the top .Decreasing size as the loads reduce .Lots of fastenings too , say 5 each side of a joint ?
yes 4 bolts each side of a joint
3/8" diameter

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Peter

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img243.jpg
deckbeams in, tempory trash gunnel caps to hold the shape,most cross spalls out

[peter radclyffe]

ive started teaching 2 italian social workers how to restore a 109 year old 24ft gozzo, which was owned by General Dias, if anyone has some info on this, we'd like to restore it as it was, it has some teak, mahogany & bronze, & an art deco lamp so, it was well made

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img306.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

<a href="http://s791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/?action=view&current=img395.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/th_img395.jpg" border="0" alt="dorley 20ft" ></a>

this is one way to fit out a gozzo

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img395.jpg