Bitting the bullet (again)!

[koolhistorian]

Good day all!

Well, after long considerations, ups, downs, etc. I had finally took the decision to buy a boat. It will be used mostly for day-sailing and some weekends (giving the fact that I am living at 230 km from the sea and with no real sailable lakes around). As my budgets are not very high and my needs are not so big, I had settled around 3 kind of boats that will fit my picture:
a) a Skerry or derivative as in http://www.blocket.se/vastmanland/Neptunkryssare_22743482.htm?ca=11&w=3 (http://www.blocket.se/vastmanland/Neptunkryssare_22743482.htm?ca=11&w=3);
b) a nordic folkboat as in http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Nordisk_Folkbat_nr_F385_22673791.htm?ca=11&w=3 (http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Nordisk_Folkbat_nr_F385_22673791.htm?ca=11&w=3);
c) a dragon due to the fact that is trailerable.
You will ask why I am looking for boats in Scandinavia - great prices and I can throw in a Baltic cruise then transport the boat in the other corner of Europe, and the fact that it is one of the few places where you can still buy a good wooden boat.
Got some questions:
a) have the skerrys a cabin that can be lived more than 1 hour :D ?
b) mostly for the scandinavian members - are those prices realistic, or just for firewood quality boats?
Thank you very much!
D.

[bamamick]

I like you already :)!

Mickey Lake

[koolhistorian]

Thanks!

[Hughman]

Y'know, "biting the bullet" refers to the practice of putting a lead bullet between the victim's teeth during an amputation without anesthetic......is this really that bad?? :p

[mizzenman]

I can't claim a great knowledge about the used boat market. But a relative looked at folkboats two years ago. they where about 20 000 to 30 000 SEK, ready to sail. That was before the economic slowed down, as you know.

I'm guessing a PM to forum member BarnackleGrimm would give you better info.

[Henning 4148]

A few years ago, used wooden folkeboats asking prices were mostly in the 10 kEUR to 15 kEUR range in Germany for boats that were claimed to be in good condition.

Which waters do you intend to sail in? How many people will you have on board?

The Skerry cruiser is happiest in sheltered (sea) waters, it's not really designed to deal with high waves. It is pretty light and has low freeboard. Upwind performance can be pretty good with the fine hull, it is easily driven etc. I would assume that it's design has developed from the need for fast transport of one to perhaps 4 persons, ups, downs, etc. I had finally took the decision to buy a boat. It will be used mostly for day-sailing and some weekends (giving the fact that I am living at 230 km from the sea and with no real sailable lakes around). As my budgets are not very high and my needs are not so big, I had settled around 3 kind of boats that will fit my picture:
a) a Skerry or derivative as inons from island to island - and perhaps as an early form of racer with overnight ability, but I would assume that the need for fast commuting from island to island had a role in the success of the design. "Honey, I have to go shopping, will be back later" or "Honey, I need to go over to such and such and help him / her with that and that, will be back later". It is not really designed to be very roomy inside and for extended holidays. Think of it as the boat version of a sports car - yes, you can sleep in it, but that is not the main purpose of the design. I'd say the cabin is more of a shelter for when you can't go home as intended than an actual cabin intended for spending weeks of holiday in.

The folkeboat was designed as an affordable family cruiser, offering good value for money with regards to the needs of a couple or a small family. Affordability and value for money were factors in the design as well as (reasonable) seaworthiness / safety. It's far less of a sportscar equivalent, more the equivalent of a family car - by the standards that were existing at the time it was designed. A folkeboat needs a bit more of wind to really get going, the Skerry is the happier boat if there is little wind.

So, I would put the decision down to - are the waters where you intend to sail pretty sheltered or can they be a bit choppy, is there a tendency for low winds and how many people do you want to take along. If you like a fast boat, intend to sail in sheltered waters where the wind very often is low and need the boat for two maximum with the focus on day sailing and weekending, the skerry cruiser probably is your boat. If the waters where you intend to sail can be choppy, wind often is a bit higher (say 4 to 5), you need a boat for 3 or (if the children are small) even four and you don't want a boat that can make for wet sailing when its blowing a bit, the folkeboat would probably be the better boat for you.

On the German North Sea coast, an area that can be rough, Skerrys don't seem to last. Folkeboats do better there.

[koolhistorian]

It is Black sea - but strictly coastal, not planning to go on something big adventure (at least not with a skerry). Probably best described as a Baltic sea with personality.
My first choice was a Folkboat, but just had fallen in love with the lines of the skerry (love the overhangs, etc.) and rationally I know that an FB would be a safer choice.
The reality is that I need a boat to sail (in Romania is a little bit a sailor's desert, just around 250 sailboats for approx. 20 milion ppl.) so crewing is not an option. On the other hand a bigger boat would be an unwise choice, both in terms of maintenace and in terms of use - in fact it will be cheaper to charter for the vacations than to own a boat (aside initial costs) and Black sea coast is not a vacation paradise - you better go to Greece, Turkey or Croatia and sail there.
Third factor - I like classic wooden sailboats.
The sailing crew will be probably yours faithfull, and in some years my step son (probably). The Admiral is not all keen on that (she likes more the beach than the sea) so it will be single handed sailing, not for long, maybe passing a night or two on board.
That is the big picture!

[Henning 4148]

If it's similar to the Baltic, a Skerry should work fine. I wouldn't call the design unsafe - it's a design that is doing very well with regards to the purpose for which it was designed. If you single hand a lot, the low weight is a big advantage with regards to boat handling. The overhangs produce speed in calm waters - but also make for a lot of splashing in choppy waters, also giving substantial knocks to the light structure.

[bamamick]

Wow! Our first Romanian (as far as I know)! Welcome, once again.

I do not have a square metre boat, but I sail Dragons, and I know that I don't really like big seas in my boat. It can handle it, but it's not a lot of fun.

Mickey Lake

[koolhistorian]

Had the same dillema when I bought my actual car - go for a "sensible" car - sturdy, peacefull, no-nonsense or act on my stroke of envy? The result is that I've ended with an Alfa-Romeo - un"sensible", but very enjoyable car.
RE the sailing conditions - the Romanian sailing season (sea) is quite short - starts 1st of May, ends 1st October. Aside that, the Romanian authorities are very nanny - like (also because our S&R capabilities are limited, remember that we had been one of the most closed countries of the closed system), so the harbour masters will close the ports when winds are more than 4-5 Bf, and I am not the kind of guy that wants to have "extreme sensations" from sailing, just some fun - so going out on a "strong breeze" it's not (at least yet) my cup of tea.
No, neither the skerrys or the Folkboat are my dream boats (my dream boats are in the "win the lottery" category), but to be very frank my choice for the skerry is mostly based on aesthetics than function. Given the fact that it will be mostly a single-handed business - my fiancee would sail, but on different kind of boats: i.e. something that is equiped with the "comforts of life" equipment (heads, not galley) - and that that I'm not anymore a very young person, so sailing dinghies would not be my best choice; add to that the fact that I really hate plastic, in all its forms (should had lived in the 20's or 30's), plus the fact that a skerry or dragon is less than 2,5 m in beam (which makes it road-transportable) so it can be put into a container or trailed form North Europe to South Europe - the other alternative being to buy a boat with a substantial engine and motor down the Rhine and up the Danube - all those factors contributed towards the skerry.
My only dillema was if the cabin of a 22 sq m (or other Kryssare) can handle a bunk, a porta-potty, a minimal galley (a primus stove for coffee and some quick meal) and a boottle of rum, or should I go for the "known" value - i.e. the Folkboat.

[bamamick]

Aren't there a lot of square metre boats in Hungary? I will investigate.

Mickey Lake