Height of green and red sidelights

[sdowney717]

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/sidelights.htm

This site says lights below the rub rail are illegal according inland rules
of navigation
"Additionally, most of these flush mounted sidelights are installed below
the vessel's rub rail. International Navigation Rules require that
sidelights be installed above the uppermost continuous deck. Therefore this
configuration would not be in compliance with International Navigation
Rules. "

However this phrase "uppermost contiguous deck" in the rules seems to be
talking about mast head lights.

-INTERNATIONAL-

ANNEX I

Positioning and Technical Details of Lights and Shapes

1. Definition

The term "height above the hull" means height above the uppermost continuous
deck. This height shall be measured from the position vertically beneath the
location of the light.

2. Vertical positioning and spacing of lights

(a) On a power-driven vessel of 20 meters or more in length the masthead
lights shall be placed as follows:

(i) the forward masthead light, or if only one masthead light is
carried, then that light, at a height above the hull of not less than 6
meters, and, if the breadth of the vessel exceeds 6 meters, then at a height
above the hull not less than such breadth, so however that the light need
not be placed at a greater height above the hull than 12 meters;

(ii) when two masthead lights are carried the after one shall be at
least 4.5 meters vertically higher than the forward one.

(b) The vertical separation of masthead lights of power-driven vessels
shall be such that in all normal conditions of trim the after light will be
seen over and separate from the forward light at a distance of 1000 meters
from the stem when viewed from sea level.

(c) The masthead light of a power-driven vessel of 12 meters but less
than 20 meters in length shall be placed at a height above the gunwale of
not less than 2.5 meters.

Any ideas here?

[Ian McColgin]

The white lights referred to are not the port and starboard lights. I don't have my rules right handy but look around in the annex, just a bit before the entry you cited I think.

[Venchka]

The straight poop from the U.S.C.G. is here:

USCG NAVIGATION RULES PDF (http://www.uscg.mil/vtm/navrules/navrules.pdf)

Save the PDF file to your local computer. Print it out.

OK, boats over 20 meters? Hello!

Rule 24, Pages 48 and 49 and Rule 25, Pages 70-75 pertain to most boats any of us are likely to operate. I agree, the illustrations indicate sidelights above the edge of the deck.

I am most thankful for the 7 meter/7 knot provisions of the light rules.

[ 05-26-2004, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah, look at the differences between Inland and International for paragraph (g) of that Annex.

The article's general point, very well taken, is that it's hard, though possible, to make a hull or gunnel installation that complies with the Inland Rules. The International Rules put the lights above the deck line where it's far easier to arrange the lights for correct visibility.

The manufacuted boats in question, mostly small junky motor boats, are unlikely to be used in international waters anyway, though there are places where it could happen.

[George Roberts]

sdowney717 ---

It is a boat mnufacturer's obligation to make installed lights legal someplace not all places.

It is the operator's obligation to make the lights legal where the boat is used.

The Coast Guard advice is for the manufacturer of boats (either under 20' or over 20' I forget which) to leave light instalation to the user.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The idea of locating them below the weather deck seems very odd to me.

[sdowney717]

Does anyone know if a 37 foot boat requires a masthead light, the rules seem to talk about this.
Currently, I have :
stern light
all around anchor light
2 sidelights below the gunwhale aft of the stem

—INLAND—
Lights and Shapes

RULE 23
Power-driven Vessels Underway
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) sidelights; and
(iv) a sternlight.

From page 135
—INLAND—
ANNEX I—Continued

(d) The masthead light, or the all-round light described in Rule 23(c), of a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall be carried at least one meter higher than the sidelights.

Page 137
(c) When only one masthead light is prescribed for a power-driven vessel, this light shall be exhibited forward of amidships; except that a vessel of less then 20 meters in length need not exhibit this light forward of amidships but shall exhibit it as far forward as is practicable.

[Bruce Hooke]

sdowney717,

I assume this is a power boat you are talking about, or at least a sailboat that has a motor, in which case, when the motor is operating then it is considered a powerboat. In that case, my understanding is that since your boat is under 12 meters long either of the following configurations would meet the rules:

1. Port and starboard lights, a white stern light that only shines aft, and a white masthead light that only shines forward.

2. Port and starboard lights and a white all-around light.

So, if you want to use your sternlight then you need to add a masthead light shining forward. Otherwise, I think you should be OK with the anchor light as your all-around light plus the bow lights, but with the stern light off. The disadvantage of this route is that the anchor light may well get in your eyes or otherwise create vision problems for you.

For a good illustration of the requirements check out this page on the West Marine website:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorDisplayView?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&advis or=navlight.htm

This URL does not want to work. So, you will have to copy and paste it...

[ 05-27-2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

[sdowney717]

I think the potential problem is If I have no masthead light, the stern light has to be an all around white light and mine is just a stern light let into the stern 112 degree arc light.
So If i add a mast head light (what would I put it on), my sidelights have to be 1 meter below the masthead light and desirably above the rubrail as well. Just what do people in power boats use for a masthead light? I do have a flybridge but this is too far aft. I have a rail around the bow, do people run a pole off of this for a masthead light? I would look mighty odd to see a tall pole jutting up at the bow, IMO

[Bruce Hooke]

sdowney717,

You are correct that the "stern light" has to be an all-around light if there is no masthead light, but what I was thinking was that your anchor light could become your stern light if it is in a suitable position and if it is bright enough.

On boats under 20 meters the masthead light does not have to be forward of amidships. So, the flying bridge would, I think, be a good place for it. Read part (c) from page 137 again (from your post above).

Also, if you have not done so already, take a look at the West Marine page (you will have to copy and paste the URL because I can't get it to display correctly -- make sure you get the part that is wrapping onto the next line). If you don't get the URL right you will get a message about the page being down for maintenance. That is not correct -- you just didn't get the URL right. If all else fails go to the West Marine home page and find your way to the "West Advisor" on nav lights.

[mmd]

Maybe this illustration of a US & Canadian Coast Guard-approved lighting arrangement on a 45-ft motoryacht will clarify things a bit. I particularly like AquaSignal Series 25 for the stacked masthead/all-round lights.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid118/p9d90db6f7daa7c2d1b8e06c1e823b3ee/f8835658.jpg

[sdowney717]

Perhaps I could consider placing a masthead light near the current allaround light. This is a 1970 eggharbor sedan cruiser with the allaround light on the wooden mast right in front of the fly bridge. Then I could raise the sidelights from off the hull so they would be above the deck. I had been thinking the masthead light should have been at the front of the boat.