Sail plan for dory

[L.W. Baxter]

I am near completing a Dion Swampscott dory per John Gardner's plans. Calls for a leg'o'mutton plus jib totaling 71 square feet. I don't have much sailing experience, but from looking at similar boats' sail areas, I'm wondering if this rig isn't too small to really be any fun. The dory measures 17' by 4'9" by maybe three hundred pounds finished weight. I've already made the spars per plan, but it's not too late, I think, to revise the sail area somehow. Unless I'm fretting needlessly. I'm open to suggestions from experienced sailors...

[Todd Bradshaw]

As narrow as the bottom is on that boat, I'm not sure I'd mess too much with the sail area. Due to it's weight, I don't expect it to get up and fly with every little puff, but I don't expect it to be a dog, either. The other nice thing is that the current boom length allows room for the backstay, which is going to get you somewhat better jib shape by limiting jib luff sag.

[L.W. Baxter]

Thanks for the response. You anticipated another of my questions, regarding the function of the backstay. (As I mentioned, I haven't sailed much. In fact, one of the few times I've gone was on an ice boat on Lake Pepin, out towards your neck of the woods, Todd. That was a thrill for a boy of 10!)

[Todd Bradshaw]

It's still a thrill for a boy of 51, too!

[Ian McColgin]

Actually, there are two changes in the rig that I advocate as they have worked well on Leeward, which is the 18' chamerlain gunning dory.

Better than a boom, I like a horizontal spar set from a snotter at the mast end and running to the clew. This is self-vanging and much easier to handle. The crease that the spar puts in the sail on one tack does not appear to hurt performance tpo any appreciable extent.

For the jib, I like a rig I first saw on a small freedom that had been modified to be sailed by quadraplegics. No stay. The clew and tack were attached to a club and the club swiveled from the stem at a point about 1/8 of the club length back from the tack. The sail is set free but being small is not difficult to handle on the way up or down. Sheet pull is modest with the sail both self-tacking and self vanging. If you're really slick you can integrate the sheet with the mainsail's trim so you only ever have to pull one line, but that's not needed in your application.

This system was developed for sailors with disabilities but it is extreemly practical for all sailors. It's the kind of jib that functions both to give the boat some balance and to make a slot to enhance the main's power but, unlike a genny on a modern sloop, the jib itself is not meant to have much power. That's why it need not have such a straight luff.

Many jib luffs have a kind of S curve on the luff anyway that streatches with hallyard tension to conform to the headstay sag. The longer part of the S gives a few percent hollow about half way up the luff but a nudge of reverse-hollow, as it were, very near the tack. Just horrify your sailmaker and give it a few percent more hollow.

Todd's sailmaker standards are higher than mine, but to me, a dory is not such a weatherly craft that ideal sloop standard. I find Leeward sails far better about 5 points off the wind. The sails look nice at 4 points but she's moving so slowly with such leeway that the course made good is worse than 6 points off the wind. Better to aim at 5, make good a noodge tighter than 6 points off the wind, and be moving with speed and power.

With all that, I'd not bother with a backstay. The only time I ever broke a dory mast was trying to surf ashore and we pitchpoled, busting up the bow and tearing the mast out at the partners. The back stay is not needed for shere strength holding up that stubby little mast and I don't feel that jib luff curve matters all that much in these rigs, especially the free clubbed version I've tried to describe.

Last thing - very important - get a nice window in that mainsail maybe as big as 18"x24" or as big as you dare, a foot or so abaft the luff, and about as high as you head is when your sitting on the rail. This will give you an adequate view when heeled and not. Otherwise, you're blind to leeward and staring at that sail so close will make you seasick.

G'luck.

[L.W. Baxter]

Hey Ian, speaking of seasickness, I got a little dizzy reading your post!! Thanks for the unexpectedly complete input. I will refer back to it when I've "larned" a little more. Regarding the one thing I really understood fully, that being the window for visibility, I've been visualizing sailing this boat while sitting on the floor between the third frame and my motorwell. I've built my tiller to come down comfortably and naturally to this position...I've even spent some time sitting in my boat in the workshop, steering a course for deeper water. Is it wrong to admit that? Anyway, this seems like a comfortable place to sail from, and I should be able to see under the sail, right?
Oh, and Brian, I will post pictures when I figure out how! I'm a newbie when it comes to the web as well...

[L.W. Baxter]

On further reflection, the idea that I could see "under" the boom sounds like "farmer talk" as Captian Culler would call it. (I've been reading Skiffs and Scooners) In my defense, I did grow up on a dairy farm...(Lund, Wisconsin)

If I'm shy about ordering a sail with a window pre-fabbed into it, could I expect to do a reasonably good remodelling job myself after the fact if I found blindness to be a problem? I've already read "The Sailmaker's Apprentice", decided immediately to stick to carpentry and buy my sails from a pro, but I think I could cut a hole and patch it with something clear. I'd have to drink a six pack of High Life first (to work up the nerve to cut up a nice, new, high dollar sail), but that's not a problem... :D

[Todd Bradshaw]

Basic small sail window installation:
Locate the following -

a piece of clear vinyl 20 mil thickness and a few inches bigger than your finished window will be.

a roll of 1/2" wide sailmaker's double-stick seaming tape

a zig-zag sewing machine that will sew through one layer of Dacron, one layer of tape and one layer of vinyl. A roller foot attachment helps a lot on sticky vinyl if you have one or can buy a cheap one. Thread weight should be V-69 or you could probably use what fabric stores call "button and carpet weight". Thread should be polyester.

First step - go sailing and take a pencil with you. Once you have determined where the window should be, mark it's approximate corner locations with the pencil. Avoid crossing panel seams with the window if at all possible, in fact, it would be a good idea to stay a couple inches away from any seams.

Step two - go home. Cut the window vinyl to give you a piece about 5/8" larger all around than the window hole cut into the sail will eventually be. Run a line of the seam tape around it's perimeter.

Step three - lay the vinyl in position on the sail. Starting at one spot or corner, slowly peel the tape's backing off and begin sticking the vinyl down, keeping it flat. If your vinyl doesn't want to lay flat due to being rolled, etc. heat it a bit with a hairdryer and it will relax. Once the vinyl piece is down flat and true, go over the lines of adhesive with some sort of roller (anything from a mayo jar to a bowling ball will work).

Notice that we have not cut the hole in the sail yet. Never ever cut a big chunk out of a sail and try to fill it in, whether it's a window hole, a patch or a panel replacement. Chances that you will get things back together without some sort of nasty wrinkles are not good. Instead, we secure the vinyl to the sail, sew it down and then cut out the hole in the Dacron. That way it can't move around or get misaligned.

You can use either a single row of fairly large zig-zag stitches or a double row of smaller ones. Most of the strength is actually in the bond from the tape. Sew with the vinyl side up all the way around the window (through the taped edge) and overlap your starting point by a couple inches. Then take a sharp pair of sissors, wiggle the Dacron to be cut out away from the vinyl and poke a small hole in the middle of it. Insert the tip of the sissors and cut toward the nearest window edge, stopping just short of the sewn and taped area. Turn and follow the edge all the way around the window. Remove the cut out piece and go sailing.

[Ian McColgin]

Todd's direction is perfect, as usual.

I found with Leeward that I didn't really like sailing from the bottom of the boat all that well unless it was very calm. But even then, you don't see under very well since the tack is so low. It might be that you want two windows but I'd be leary of putting a window anywhere near the tack as that's a high stress area. Just start with the obvious higher one.

When you talk to the sailmaker try to describe the jib. Maybe check out www.shakealeg.org/ (http://www.shakealeg.org/) for a picture of the jib type - you have to look really closely to see that the boom club pivots on a point a few inches abaft the actual tack. It's an astonishingly easy sail to handle and such simplicity is a real plus in a dory.

Motor well? I'll bet that in the end you board over the bottom and use it either as a live well for fishing or as a beer cooler or both.

Anyway, you've chosen a wonderful boat for exploring in. Compared with more modern designs, they can be a little quirky to sail.

They can't go very fast because they make a huge wave at 'hull speed' and the stern is so fine they essentially squat. As I mentioned earlier, they don't like to be pinched into the wind too much. I find about 5 points off the wind (a bit over 55 degrees) gives generally enough power.

One further advantage of the horizontal sprit instead of a conventional boom - you can 'oar sail' in moderate breezes. Say the wind is 5 or so. Once you're on a point of sailing, you can also row - control direction with your oars but you may need to have the helm restrained - and with almost no work the two means of propulsion will conspire to a pleasant pace.

I passed a pack of Lasers that way once. Someone called out that I was cheating. I pointed out that I also had the beer.

G'luck

[L.W. Baxter]

Thank you, gentlemen. Very clever, securing the vinyl to the sail before cutting the cloth. That never would have occurred to me.

Ian, I hope that you are not entirely right about the motoring abilities of this boat, as I have already purchased the motor-- I wanted to have it on hand before cutting the hole, and that turned out to be wise on several counts. I'm hoping that this will be an "all around" boat, and as I am an avid fisherman, a motor seemed like a natural addition. Also, in his text, J. Gardner suggest that this dory might "have possibilities for outboard motoring, or possibly a small air-cooled inboard." I took my cue from that.

I am also fashioning a plug for the well, to use while rowing and sailing, and I'm going to hinge the lid, for storing "refreshments". I assume that with the plug in place, sailing performance will not be much affected.

Hopefully, I haven't wasted a thousand bucks and a weekend in the shop!

[Ian McColgin]

Low power might work. Check out how this guy did.

Small Boat Forum
Outboard for Swampscott dory
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Posted by Woodpecker on August 15, 2003 at 18:40:08

I am nearing completion of a 17' Swampscott dory, specifically the Fred Dion version from John Gardner's Dory Book. "Tis time to cut the hole for the outboard well. Before making the fateful plunge, I thought it might be prudent to consider the motor itself. I'm looking for advice from someone experienced with similar craft. Her maximum beam is 52", 12' on the waterline, weighs about 250, with a slightly rockered, flat bottom. I hope to use her on the Columbia River, and maybe off the beach through the surf in fair weather. Wind and currents are fairly strong. I would like a four-stroke, but I need to be able to lift it out easily when beaching, as a tilt-up well is not an option. I like the Nissan 5 horse 4-stroke, but I'm concerned that it might not have enough juice, and more powerful 4-strokes get heavier in a hurry. Any thoughts?
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[L.W. Baxter]

:D "That guy" is me! I posted that and got no responses. That was before I found this forum; the Small Boat Forum seems to be heavily skewed towards the mechanical end, so that's what I asked about. But no help! I ended up buying the five-horse Nissan.

The internet makes the world bigger and smaller at the same time, doesn't it?

It sure feels odd being googled... :D

[Ian McColgin]

So, when you called yourself, how did you do?

I considered the thought it could be you but then thought nahhhhh.

Anyway, the low power seems about right and you can get lots of pleasure plunking along.

Can you post pics of how you plan the well and how it will limit turbulence when open and motor down?

By the way, I did once experiment with a motor on Leeward. Rather than a well I just made a drop on bracket that spanned gunnel to gunnel and hung off the starboard side. The motor was that bigest old Seagull. It worked just fine but I didn't want to actually buy a motor. I never contemplated having the sailing rig and motor in place at the same time anyway, and I think you'll find that even with a well, you can't hang the mast and motor at the same time. Different missions, different gear.

At first I thought the shape of the boat would wedge the thing enough - just a 2x4 with some shaped lower blocks to grab the gunnels and a bolted on dangle to take the motor clamp. But it wedged too tightly and it turned out well to put just a little wood chock on the tops of each gunnel, starboard side ahead of the mount and port side astern, to take the twist. The port block was also a good spot to put a barral lock to keep that side from lifting with the motor's weight.

You might give something like that a try before cutting the hole in the bottom.

[ 09-26-2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

[guillemot]

Hi Lee,

Boat looks great! I am building a Swampscott Dory too, although it seems that I see a lot of people making quicker progress then me on theirs. I'm wondering how you built your gunwale, since that's where I am now. Looks like you used glued lap construction too, no? If yes, mine is built differently, but I can't wait to hear how she sails.

As for the sails themselves, I had mine made of oceanus by Nat Wilson. He used the drawings for a sprit rig shown with the plans for the Modified Swampscot Dory (16'3"), which is the boat I built. He added a jib to give her a little more power, although it wasn't shown in the plans. I have all the finish work to do now, so if you have more photos of your finishing details, I'd love to see them!! Looks fantastic. Congratulations!

Cheers,
Jeff

[L.W. Baxter]

Ian, I already cut the hole and built the well. You can see pictures on my post in building and repair. As far as turbulence, I don't know. One important detail, I think, is that the well is raked to get the prop stream projecting slightly downward. This serves to give some lift to the stern. I will also be covering the hole with two pieces of inner-tube rubber, as per Gardner's suggestion, with just enough play for the prop to pass through...hopefully, this will keep water from boiling up in the well itself...

Jeff, I blocked between the frames with some carefully selected construction grade spruce, (easily done by scribing from underneath, plane to fit the sheer) then used half-inch white oak for the gunnel caps. I found that two pieces of 6 inch breadth by ten feet long spliced up nicely for each side. I epoxied and screwed them into place... and yes, it is glued lap, but with frames, because I like the way it looks, and I think it must add to the sturdiness of the hull, glued lap or no...adds to the weight, but I plan to trailer it, and I don't picture doing alot of rowing. I already have a strip-built canoe I built last year (18'6" E.M. White guide model per Gilpatrick)if I want excercise! (With my kids "helping", usually paddling backwards, and my wife resting in the bow like an impressionist painting, I can get quite a workout!) :D

[Pernicious Atavist]

to digress a tad...l.w., i have an e.m. white built for me on an original white co. strongback by a guy in maine. i rigged it for sail when i came back home to fla.. it uses a 40' lateen with leeboards and a rudder, and i've sailed her in 25 knot winds! wahoo! nuthin' like side-slipping down the face of a wave...no sirree....

motor on a sailboat? what will they think of next? ;)

[Ian McColgin]

I've heard of some wells impeeding the motor's access to cooling water. Watch that closely at the start.

[L.W. Baxter]

Hey Ed-- sails on a canoe? Do you like to swim? :D

[Ken Buck]

I'll just throw in my $.02 ...

I have an 18' Surf Dory with what is essentially John Gardner's
"18' Marblehead Gunning Dory" leg-o-mutton rig with jib.
It's a relatively conservative rig - the boat is plenty large
and heavy enough to handle a larger sail - but my priorities
included ease of stowage (the spars will stow flat on the seats,
and permit both sailing and rowing). The boat sails along fine
in moderate winds, but in lighter winds, a taller rig would be
useful. Still, I'm happy with the compromise. Small boats are
all about compromise - you have to decide what fits your own
needs - so what works for one may not always be the answer
for another. If you really want to roar along, a larger
rig would be good. The 21' Beachcomber/Alpha sailing dories
used quite large rigs, but their priority was racing and
they often sailed with more than one person on board.
The taller rigs required stays, but mine doesn't need them.
The jib halyard is cleated to the centerboard to help keep things from
jumping, but the spars are quite heavy anyway, so it's unlikely they'd
go anywhere by themselves.

As other have mentioned, this rig doesn't give a lot of
forward visibility. I don't have a window in my sail, and
don't want one; I'm satisfied to do a lot of peering under
the sail in return for the cleaner appearance. It gives
you something to do, anyway. But definitely do keep alert,
because it's easy to get in trouble. (No, I didn't actually run
into that CG tug, but ... if I hadn't looked when I did ... ?? smile.gif

If you find your rig needs more power, you can always
upsize it later without rebuilding the boat. It's probably
better to start too small than the other way around,
especially if you've never sailed a dory before.
Dories are somewhat tender and will heel a bit when the
wind puffs, but they get stiffer as they heel and don't (usually)
tip all the way over smile.gif
I haven't flipped mine yet...
I like to sail on a bit of an angle anyway, even if it isn't the
most efficient for the sails; it keeps the boom tipped the right way in
light winds. The willingness to heel is why
that boom goes up at such an angle; when you're
pounding along in heavy surf heeled over from the wind, you
don't want the boom clipping off the wave tops!

Some will note that dories aren't really ideal sailboats
anyway - the high sides catch a lot of wind, and the
pointy stern doesn't aid in tacking. I don't care - I just
like dories - and I like a boat that can be as easily rowed
as it can be sailed. When I go out in my dory and wind dies,
I say "so what", and change into a rowboat and off I go.

The boom does impeed "rowing while sailing", which is
unfortunately because that can be handy at times, especially
to get out of a jam. In that case, you may need to raise
the boom to get it out of the way - unfortunately that
can take precious seconds. Best to plan ahead, anyway,
then you won't need to do that in the first place.
The boom also gets in the way if you're trying to
move forward into the bow to get something or to tend the
job. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs - but I still like the look,
and it's nice having a less-common rig when everything else
is a sloop rig these days.

For sailing dories, the sprit rig is perhaps more traditional
and certainly has a lot of advantages. Especially when boomless,
it's easy to brail or furl, and the spars are shorter and lighter.
My choice of rig wasn't based on practicality or efficiency - since my
previous boat was sprit rigged, I just wanted something different, and
something with a head sail to play with.
You can rig either sprit or leg-o-mutton
with or without the jib. Jibs have their advantages, but you
can certainly sail it without one and it works fine - perhaps
better downwind than up.

My tiller is quite long (about 6', I think), but for balance, I like to sail
sitting on the floor nestled up against the center thwart, which is
a little far away - so I loop an eyespliced line over the tiller
knob, run it through the oarlock on windward side, and use it as a
yoke line. When I switch tacks, I put the line through the other
oarlock and sail from the other side. From that position, I can
just reach the end of the tiller with my arm outstretched, but with
the yoke line, it's much more comfortable and I can loop it around a
cleat to hold a course. I could have installed a proper yoke, but
they can look clumsly and it's nice having the tiller; so for me,
using the line is the best of both worlds. Some use a pivoting
"hiking stick" to extend the tiller, but using a length of line is
a little less obtrusive. In heavier winds, I'll sit up on the
side seats or even the rail to help counter heeling. When running
downwind, especially with a following swell,
my improvised yoke line
doesn't work, so then I have to hold the
tiller to keep it steady.

My rig originally used 4 blocks (!) to run the mainsheet from the
aft end of the boom, to a block clipped to the traveller, back to a
block on the boom, to another block near the forward end of the
boom, through a block on top of the centerboard case. The blocks
at the head of the boom and centerboard case help serve as a
downhaul/vang, but overall, there was too much friction in the
setup to let the sail move freely. In light winds, the
block clipped to the traveller would flop around and bang on the
gunwales, and even in heavier winds, you had to feed line by hand
to let the sail swing out. I recently eliminated the block
clipped to the traveller, so now there is just one length of line
running from traveller to the end of the boom, and that has
at least 3 advantages - the sail responds much more easily to the
wind, the main sheet can be shorter since it isn't doubled to the
boom, and there's no block at the traveller to beat up my gunwales.
It's a little more work to haul in the sail in a strong wind, but
not much - there's still plenty of purchase. I'm much happier
with this current setup. There are a variety of ways to run the
rigging, and if you have a separate downhaul, you could eliminate
the block on the centerboard case and move other things around
accordingly.

As for motor wells, I don't have much experience, but I've seen
dories with them built amidships - not personally crazy about
them, but I'm not really a motor person anyway. The centerboard
already takes up enough room, so adding a motor well just gets
even more in the way. Since you've already decided to go that
route, I won't try to disuade you smile.gif It does give an alternative
to rowing home, but to my mind, a dory is already small enough
inside before you add the centerboard case, motor well, gas tank,
spare oars, sails and spars, wait, did you say people were supposed
to fit, too?! smile.gif But, it is your boat, after all...

Here's a link to a picture of my leg-o-mutton rig:

http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/wbs2003/gallery/images/25_kendory1.jpg

A sister 18' dory to mine rigged with a sprit rig is shown in the link below:

http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/wbs2003/gallery/images/15_mikedory4.jpg

And to see some other pictures of (mostly) these dories, from this year's
WoodenBoat Show, start at the beginning of the gallery at the link:

http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/wbs2003

In case you missed it, here's another gallery of other
(mostly non-dory) pictures from this year's WoodenBoat Show:

http://tuckershobbies.com/wbs2003

Any questions or requests for more detail pictures of my setup, just ask!

[L.W. Baxter]

Ken-- excellent stuff! All this great advice makes me sad I didn't find this forum earlier in the building process.

From one of the pictures of your boat, I could see the gudgeons for your rudder. I assume that you've just got normal pintles, a few inches long? I ask because I have "roughed out" my rudder, using gudgeons and pintles from Jamestown Dist., and have been disturbed at how "loose" it feels, both side to side and up and down. Pushing aft on the handle causes the whole thing to come unhinged! Is there something I don't know regarding installation or use? (silly question) It seems like one of the pintles should have some sort of keeper on it...but then how would you remove it quickly in the event of a grounding? It looks like your boat might have slightly less rake of the transom, which would make it hang on a little better....

One other thing I feel I should clarify, just in my defense. I do not intend to sail and motor on the same day. When I go sailing, the motor stays home. When I go fishing, vice versa. And as Forrest Gump says, "that's all I have to say about that." :D

[Ken Buck]

I've read some remarks on dories about the issue of keeping the
rudder in place, especially when you push or lean back on the
tiller. The problem is the steep rake of the transom, which helps
it want to lift out. There are various methods to avoid the
problem. Some setups keep a fixed rod on the transom, with
gudgeons on the rudder so it will slide over the rod, but I don't
like this - looks yucky (to me, anyway) if you are in rowing mode
and aren't using the rudder.
Another option is to have some kind of fixture on the transom
(like a metal plate that rotates into place) that sits above the
top pintle and keeps it from bouncing up, but I don't like that
either. Another option is to use a longer rod, but have the rod
on the rudder instead of the transom - perhaps a little better.

My boat has 3 quite substantial gudgeons and pintles, and unlike
some, the pintles are relatively long (at least 3 to 4 inches)
and are cylindrical, not tapered towards a point, so they fit
relatively tightly (but not tight enough to bind or be difficult
to slide into place). There is definitely no "flopping" in the
setup - it swivels nicely. It also doesn't hurt that the rudder is
pretty heavy. The tiller is hinged on a pin to allow a fair amount
of lift, but I've never had any problem with the rudder wanting to
go places on its own - it's very secure. There can be such a thing
as "too secure", though - that's one drawback of the fixed-rod
systems - things could get damaged if you get into shallow water
and can't get the rudder off relatively fast. With the pintle
setup, you can still lift it out pretty easily, but it won't do
it on its own. (Disclaimer: I did drift onto a ledge once and the
swell joggled the rudder up and down against a rock and eventually
it popped out - this was scary but much better than having it rip
off half the transom be cause it was fixed in place)

I'm not sure of the source for my hardware, but you probably won't
find it in a catalog. Bristol Bronze lists pintles & gudgeons, but
no pictures so I don't know what they're like. I can try to track
it down if you're interested. The pintles are basically just heavy
rod cut to length and ground to a smooth finish on the end.

I've attached a few links to pictures that show some the of
the hardware in more detail - I don't have a picture handy
of the completed rudder, but I can take some this weekend
if it will help.

Gudgeons (http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/boats/dory18/construction/images/38_l18_gudgeons.jpg)

Pintles (http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/boats/dory18/construction/images/39_l18_pintles.jpg)

Transom (http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/boats/dory18/delivery/images/09_l18_onland.jpg)

[L.W. Baxter]

My pintles are tapered almost to a point! I guess this is to facilitate engaging the holes in the gudgeons, but it definitely makes them loosey-goosey. I think I'll go ahead and finish my rudder with the hardware I bought (they weren't cheap enough to sit on a shelf in my workshop), and do a remodel later, if neccessary...

I notice your boat doesn't have any flotation... I guess you must be a confident sailor/swimmer! I have what I believe to be about 180 lbs of flotation foam under the bow and stern seats, and might add more, maybe under the floorboards...

Thanks for sharing the photos...

[Ian McColgin]

They should taper and one should be longer than the other. If not, set the upper gudgeon a tad lower than 'right' so you can engage the lower pintle and gudgeon first.

Either a little keeper like an L tab that swivels over the upper pintle or even a bit of shock cord will keep the rudder down just fine.

If you find the long tiller annoying, try mounting a short tiller arm athwarships and putting a long light wand as a push/pull for the actual control.

G'luck

[Ken Buck]

On my previous/first sailing boat (13' semi-dory with wide, straight-up transom), the rudder was much smaller and lighter, and we used 2 tapered bronze pintles - the big ones on the dory are much heavier, longer, and more of a secure fit. I think each setup suited its application pretty well - the smaller rudder didn't need the extra security, and the larger one does. In practice, on the dory, it can be pretty entertaining hanging over the transom trying to engage the pintles when a good swell bounces you up & down.
It goes in pretty well, though - the problem isn't getting the pintle into the hole, but more to get the holes lined up as the water pushes it one way and the other. One other option for your setup is to rig a tether line somehow so that if the rudder decides to abandon ship, at least it doesn't go too far...

Nope, no flotation. Could be added, I s'pose. Depending on how you plan to use the boat, it's not a bad idea. Unfortunately, it does take up room.
One of these days, I've been meaning to sink it in the harbor and see how far down it really goes - that could be a good thing to know under controlled circumstances. Of course I always wear a PFD, but I still don't want to swim much in the cold Maine water! 've been sailing it
for 4 years now (and the previous boat for 5 years before that), no capsizes, but as noted, the rig is fairly conservative, and I'll admit that when things get wild, I usually just turn it into a rowing boat. It might take a while to get home, but I know that I'll get there eventually, and anyway, I like rowing too.

[L.W. Baxter]

I just dragged this up because I'm musing about cutting a window in my sail per Todd's instructions.

Good stuff from Ian and Ken, too. I didn't take Ian's advice on the self-tending jib. Not yet, anyway.

Funny, this is from last September, and I started by saying "I am near completing..." :rolleyes:

Oh, to be so innocent once more! :D

I see that the search function is working again for this section. Why aren't the pages listed at the top?

--Lee

[Ken Buck]

Just noticed your latest, been away for a bit.
I'll agree that a window might help - forward visibility can be limited; on my leg-o-mutton rig with jib, I spend a lot of time peering under and around to make sure I'm not cutting across the path of the island ferry or the passing CG cutter. But... I never liked the look of windows in sails, so I'm willing to pay the price of effort in return for looks. It's not a bad idea to stay of top of things by keeping a good lookout anyway, so the lack of window isn't that big a deal. Not sure how good the windows are, anyway - how long before they get scratched, fogged, and useless? Dunno. Anyway, when I don't want to watch ahead, I anchor and take a snooze.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Agreed. Though they can be handy at times and though those things you need to see ahead actually do occasionally happen to line-up properly and show through the window (not occasionally enough for my taste) it's really tough to put a window in such a classic sailplan and get it to look good. Somehow, it's usually fairly easy to add one to a high-tech modern sail or a generic-looking cruising or daysailing sail and have it look just fine, but they tend to stand out like a sore thumb on traditional sails.

They do also add a dissimilar material to the sail with very different stability/stretch/lifespan characteristics and it sometimes isn't the best thing to do for good sailshape. If you do add one, I'd suggest making it with fairly large (like 1.5"-2" radius) rounded corners, rather than square corners. They're a little harder to sew-in, but seem to blend better cosmetically with the rest of the sail.