Herreshoff's Golden Ball

[TimothyB]

Just on a lark, when I saw that a meadowlark was up for sale I went looking around to see if I could find a Golden Ball...

Amazingly, there is one for sale:

http://boat-world.com/boatads/2063.html

I haven't tried to contact the owner, but thought I would pass this along to you folks in case someone wanted to pick up a really shoal draft herreshoff original.

--T

[Ian McColgin]

I think this is the original, built for the father of a friend of mine. She remembers it as the finastkind boat you could wish for.

[TimothyB]

Now thats an endorsement.

I hope someone with a wallet sees this post smile.gif

--T

[Ian McColgin]

I'm sure that if my friend and her husband did not already have two sailing classics in the 15 ton area each and a couple of kids.

A great boat. Someone on here must get her.

And invite me over for a sail . . .

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Er, yes. I am a big fan, too. If I had the cash right now I would flash out for her, despite having a deep keeled 12 tonner and a couple of kids, all on the wrong side of the pond (and she ain't no ocean crosser - but what a fabulous ditch crawler!)

[ishmael]

Oh my!

The ad is frustratingly light on information, but oh my.

I always wonder too about boats that have lived their lives south of the Chesapeake. Where was the boat built, and where did it live much of its life? Unless one keeps up with them they are more subject to both rot from the top down, and worm infestation from below. Just a few years of neglect can mean either a death knell, or a lot of work to bring them back.

However, one imagines such a boat as Golden Ball might have avoided such problems. Sigh, to be just a little rich. smile.gif

Anyone know where she was built, and with what materials?

[Steve Paskey]

Oh my is right! I don't often dream of 46-foot boats, but I'll make an exception in this case.

Regarding her origins and construction, LFH explained in Sensible Cruising Designs:

"In the Compleat Cruiser, I described a shallow draft cruising ketch named Tranquillo. That design aroused considerable interest, even though the boat at the time was only a figment of my imagination. The owner of one of my thirty-three foot Meadow Larks decided he wanted a larger boat to take out parties on the western coast of Florida, where the waters are quite shallow. I finished the design, the boat was built in Buzzards Bay, she was named Golden Ball, and the owner sailed her south, part of the way singlehanded. Her cost in 1962 was $30,000, quite a little less than other ketches of her size being built then. If I could have afforded her when I was younger, I would have had a boat to this design, because I think she is one of my best."

There are no details as to the wood used in building the original, though LHF recommended "New England white oak" for the frames, with long leaf yellow pine planking below the waterline, and soft pine, cypress, mahogany or "rift-grain fir" above it, with an oak or yellow pine sheerstrake.

The boat advertised must be the original, as she is definitely of the proper vintage (LFH says 1962, the ad says 1961). And the price is still $30,000!

[ 06-05-2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Steve Paskey]

It's a pity there are no pictures, but I can supply a few drawings.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p3444875868a3513b325b01deeca6d544/fbfe234f.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pcd8a85d323939b8c12be26615898e288/fbfe234c.jpg

[ 06-05-2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[ishmael]

I think I feel a nibble. Think about forty-six feet berthed in D.C. Steve. Think about it.

There's no recent survey mentioned. Let us know what you find out. "Well cared for, needs TLC", or like that from the ad, is a little worrisome.

I want a sail if you buy her. smile.gif

Would make an interesting charter boat for Florida Bay, the Bahamas, the Chesapeake.

One thing is sure, no one is making another original Golden Ball. I'll bet it's cock-a-block with interesting details and, from the sound of it, I'll bet it needs considerable work. Just from where it's advertised, for one thing.

[ 06-06-2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Steve Paskey]

Not a chance. She's not in the budget.

Well, at least not for another couple of months. Having moved into my fiance's house, I need to sell my condo. I have some repairs I need to do before I sell it, and they won't get done until July, but it's just possible that the cash left over when I sell the place and pay off the mortgage might be enough . . .

Even if it's out of the question, it would almost be worth the price of an airline ticket to fly out and pretend to be a serious buyer.

[ 06-05-2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[ishmael]

Wall, Ian's right, someone here ought to have her. I look forward to the rest of the pack reading this over the next few days, seeing what developes.

I'd LOVE to have this boat. She's a little long, but man, LFH's Golden Ball! Not everyone's cup of tea, but she fit's my idea of a cruising boat, ezzept for that uncompromising length. Yet here in Maine a mooring is cheaper than most places, and not dependent on length, hmm.

But this boat really belongs south of Delaware.

And there it is. Unless I win the lottery, it ain't in the cards.

I do look forward to the slavering that ought follow. :D

[ 06-05-2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Dave Hadfield]

I think shallow draft belongs everywhere there are crowds. It's extremely convenient to enter a nearly full anchorage at 19:30 and easily find a good spot in the shallows where most boats can't go.

It also adds to safety when coastal cruising, since so many more safe harbours are available to you.

Pure upwind performance is really important to some people, but not to me.

[Alan D. Hyde]

A pretty girl, who might live longer in the colder waters of Maine, Jack. :D

Alan

[ishmael]

Nah. I'm so far from taking on a project like this I couldn't see it with Hubble.

The boat is a beautiful anachronism, from what I can tell. Who wants a boat that's 46 ft. long with an 8 ft. beam? Even if it made perfect sense to the likes of LFH? She looks, from the lines Steve so kindly posted, like a stretched ship's launch, or transomed whaleboat.

Unless you were rich, or could figure a way to make the boat pay its way, it makes no sense. The slip fees, oi!

However, if I had a license, and didn't have a sick dog, and hadn't just bought a piece of the land, I might think about running the boat out of Key West, or Nassau, or even Baltimore.

Have a sail aboard Herreshoff's 'Golden Ball'

That might make sense.

[ 06-07-2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[TimothyB]

To be honest, if we were interested in coastal cruising as our prime pasttime I would seriously think about this boat. If she is in 1/2 way decent shape she is definitely worth the $$, especially since she is a Herreshoff original. And honestly, there may never have been any others built. I think you could restore her, you'd have most if not all of the material costs recouped if you decided to sell her.

Our original idea for a boat for cruising was a sharpie, but we changed our mind when we decided to cross oceans.

--T

[ 06-07-2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: TimothyB ]

[ishmael]

So is someone gonna inquire about this folly or what? I'm counting on Steve. Someone ought get a better picture, but I'm not able enough, financially, to even think about placing the phone call in any seriousness. A man needs to know his limitations. smile.gif

And I agree Timothy: if the boat is basically sound the price isn't out of line. But it's a big if.

[Steve Paskey]

I'm there. I fired off an e-mail inquiry first thing Friday morning. If I don't hear something in the next day or two, I'll make the call.

[Steve Paskey]

Okay, bite your tongue. I'm not obsessed, and I'm NOT buying the boat. But I did find some interesting info online.

GOLDEN BALL was designed and built for Robert P. Gibbs, who took her south and ran her from St. Petersburg Beach on the west coast of Florida.

Mystic Seaport's collection includes LF Herreshoff's papers, and parts of it have been digitized, including the correspondence files. Rummaging through the stuff online, I found two letters from Gibbs to LFH.

Letter 1 (http://www.mystic.org/library/Manuscripts/CPageImage.cfm?PageNum=20&BibId=35258&Box=7&Folder=7) is dated Jan. 1963 and describes the rather eventful trip south, including engine trouble and four inches of ice from stem to stern.

Letter 2 (http://www.mystic.org/library/Manuscripts/CPageImage.cfm?PageNum=15&bibid=35258&Box=7&Folder=7) is a holiday letter written three years later, with an brief update on his life in Florida and the boat.

[ 06-07-2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[ishmael]

Cool Steve. Sounds like the original owner was quite happy, after the shakedown that is. It really would be a marvelous boat for the Keys, Florida bay, etc. That first letter is funny. Wonder what was on his mind, kvetching so. It would be interesting to know if LFH wrote back on either occasion.

Let us know what you find out. It's fun being a fly on the wall. Almost as good as actually being able to contemplate such a project. smile.gif Someone here is bound to rise to the bait. I hope so. If the boat is reasonably sound it deserves a good new home, and is as likely to find it here as anywhere.

[Steve Paskey]

Rummaging around in those archives has proven to be great fun on a rainy day -- check out the correspondence from the young Phil Bolger that I've posted over in "miscellaneous boat related."

After further digging I've found LFH's reply to the second letter (but nothing on the first), written in January 1966. Sounds like the original was not the only boat built to the design -- LFH mentions two guys who are having a Golden Ball built, and a third who wants one.

Herreshoff to Gibbs (http://www.mystic.org/library/Manuscripts/CPageImage.cfm?PageNum=14&BibId=35258&Box=5&Folder=8)

One more letter relating to the history of Golden Ball, this one written in October 1960 by boatbuilder Allan Vaitses of Mattapoisett, who built a Meadowlark ("Loon") for Gibbs. Vaitses tells LFH that he seems to have talked or argued his way out of building the new boat (as of that date, still known as "Tranquillo" rather than Golden Ball). See the first paragraph at the top of page 2.

Vaitses to LFH (http://www.mystic.org/library/Manuscripts/CPageImage.cfm?PageNum=131&BibId=35258&Box=5&Folder=1)

[ 06-07-2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[ishmael]

The second one won't load here, the first is great! How fast is she on a reach, the boat's best point of sail, no doubt? Lovely to have the sense that LFH, as busy and old as he must have been, sat down to his typewriter and tapped out a note. It doesn't feel like it was written by a secretary.

I did look at the correspondence between Bolger and Herreshoff. Again, quite sweet. The moving thread of love and information, running from Slocum to Bolger is just wonderful. Think on it. LFH knew Slocum, and in his wonderful mind moved Slocum's experience to Bolger, who is designing a boat as we speak. Probably. Marvelous stuff.

And it looks like ol' LFH kept the same typwritter for years. smile.gif

[Steve Paskey]

Try that second one again -- I think I've fixed it.

The exchange of information and affections in these old letters really is quite remarkable. I regret that I didn't write it down, but someone in the early 60s there's a pair of letters between John Atkins and LFH. Atkins passed along his father's compliments about something, and LFH, in return, fondly recalled something that Wm. Atkins had done in 1928.

I also ran across a short note from LFH to Howard Chapelle, expressing appreciation for the recent publication of the guide to the Smithsonian watercraft collection.

[ 06-07-2003, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Steve Paskey]

For those who haven't seen it, GOLDEN BALL is featured in the current issue of WB (#173), in Maynard Bray's "Save a Classic" column. Here's what he says about her condition:

"In her current condition, though useable, GOLDEN BALL would not pass a survey due to rotted oak sheer strakes and fore keel -- which need replacing, along with a few cedar hull planks. . . . The work needed seems to be well within the range of possibility for a person with skill and ambition -- and without a huge amount of cash. Were I a little younger, I'd give it a try myself."

For the record, she was built by Bucky Barlow of Pocasset, Mass. in 1962. Auxiliary power is now now provided by a pair of 20 hp Yanmar diesels with a few hundred hours on them, in place of "the original, noisy, air-cooled Listers." She's lying at Key Largo, Florida, and her current owners lived aboard for 10 years.

[SailBoatDude]

For what it's worth, I know of two Golden Balls for sale. Both here in Florida and in rather workman's shape.

The design is quite valid in our water and a good performer. One is for sale in the rag and the other was trying to pry another offer from an interested party in Jacksonville.

The Golden Ball was LFH's answer to the need for partying on the shoals plying the West coast of Florida. She served well for the task.

She'll surprise you to wind, and take off as the sheets are eased. Not much beats a 46' yacht that will ride up to a soft sandy beach and drop her load without having more then one hull.

A fine design and good looking yacht, if the shoal bug bites or becomes necessary. I've seen several over the years, and all have surprised me with their performance, some with fantastic deep water voyages under their keels.

[Norske3]

EH?..$30,000?...the boat ad in Key Largo says...$15,000..( cheap, cheap..to cheap?)......

$15,000 divided by 46ft = $326 and change per foot.

I always like to see that figure...

. ..and can be sailed NOW...he says...so its in good condition?...So that makes it a really great price, no?...he must be very anxious to move on to another life...makes you wonder if its in good condition "below the belt"...lotsa hungry worms down there. smile.gif

[ 06-22-2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[ishmael]

'Dude,

I didn't mean to suggest by my comments about 'Golden Ball' being a beautiful anachronism, that she isn't worthy of her original purpose, only that people's boat needs have changed in not altogether pleasing ways in forty years. To keep that boat in Fla. these days, the place she was designed for, must cost a small fortune in slip fees.

Nice to hear some first hand accounts of her performance. I'll just bet, off the wind, that the dear girl flys.

As I said, if I was in a financial postition to do so I'd be sorely tempted to bring her to Maine (a foreign land ;) ) and have at her. But, alas, I'm not.

It's a boat from a different era. I hope she finds a good home in this new era of changing financial fortunes. It'll be a shame if she comes up short.

[SailBoatDude]

ishmael, the "BalI" is surprisingly fast. Kicked my butt in a plastic club racer, close hauled a few years back. She just pulled away and was gone. Okay the plastic boat wasn't as close winded as it could have been, intended for off wind work, but a spanking is still a spanking. With that rig, easing the sheets makes fun sailing them.

I've not much cared for this nor the Meadowlark designs. Too much cabin, not enough boat. Though I'd often wondered how she'd look with a shorter deck structure and fitted with a centerboard, rather then clutter up the nice sheer with lee boards.

Sadly, slip and hook fees are getting out of hand as everyone tries to make a buck. I'm glad I'm getting old enough to have friends who own waterfront I can tie up to. It seems this has driven my cruising about of late, as I always end up in a friend's slip or cove. I haven't had to tie up and pay for years now. Hope I can keep it up and soon make friends with waterfront property owners in the BVI's (the other half has been talking about it lately)