Submarine Plans

[Sierrans]

I've been looking really hard for a classic submarine plan. I would prefer to go wood, but realize epoxy may have to come into the picture at some point. My question is: can someone help me out here to build a submarine.

[paladin]

when you say classic.....do you mean like the military uses......
or perhaps a small two or six man unit....then the question...wet or dry?....range?..........is it to be used for anything other than travel from point a to b?...............how deep do ya wanna go? a modern scuba diver can go just about as deep as a wwii sub was DESIGNED to go....questions......questions......questions....C an you weld...a really good weld? wood is a bit light.......

[Scott Rosen]

I can't say I know what a classic wooden submarin is. There are lots of old wooden boats that are submerged, but they weren't designed to live underwater.

You could try making a wooden barrel with the bevels going the other way and the hoops on the inside, if you know what I mean. LOL

[Todd Bradshaw]

Two interesting possibilities come to mind:
For the more "traditional submariner" there was an article with good drawings on the Revolutionary War-era wooden submarine the "Turtle" in WoodenBoat #21. It was made kind of like a barrel but with two clamshelled halves forming kind of an airfoil shape. It was dry inside, powered by pedals and it's weapon was a keg of powder attached to a big screw. The idea was to screw the bomb to the bottom of a ship and pedal safely out of range before it blew.

Another, possibly more useful home-made dry-sub was in the July 1978 issue of Mechanix Illustrated. This one had a submersible main hull with two outrigger pontoons connected by a metal tubing framework. The pontoons always stayed on the surface. The framework hinged to let the main hull drop about 40" below the surface. This was the extent of it's diving capability, but supposedly gave a very interesting view and minimized risk. It was powered by two trolling motors. Batteries also ran fans in the pontoons which pumped a continuous supply of fresh air into the main hull/cockpit. The hull and pontoons were built with fiberglass over stacked, urethane foam plugs. After lay-up, the pieces were cut in half, the foam removed and then they were reassembled over a welded metal tubing frame.

Someplace, I actually have the plan set for this one as it was once on my "hot list" of boats to build next. It was pretty well designed, seemed like it would be fun and looked like Luke Skywalker's X-Wing Fighter.

[Mike Field]

Well, Leonardo da Vinci's submarine would have to be the most classic, I suppose. I don't know offhand whether it was made of wood, though,,,,,

[TonyH]

Mike, I seem to recall da Vinci's sub was designed for carbon-fibre reinforced fibreglass (never built, of course). That guy really was way ahead of his time LOL!

[This message has been edited by TonyH (edited 12-15-2001).]

[paladin]

The wet or dry sub is in fact reality. The guy that designed Alvin worked next to me at TRW and at one time I had the drawings for a wet sub with a compartment for the dry pilot and also for a 6 man deliverable dry sub for covert operations. The design was relatively simple. The "Fuel" and air was contained in toroidal tubes that formed the pressure vessel body. All in all a neat little sub. The nuclear power plant was expensive ( just joking...it wuz electric).

[TomRobb]

In order to be a classic would you need to go carvel or can you get away with clinker? And then there's the sail/ power issue. So many problems....

[Henri]

Try searching under "human powered submarines"; then take a specfic look into the work being done at U TN, U MI, FL Atlantic U, Naval Acadamy, and the Robert Q Reilly folding sub for something unique. At least one of the U subs is a cold molded wood boat.

[TomRobb]

Cold molded, huh. But is it a classic ?

[TomRobb]

I saw some of the submarine races on TV. (not to be confused w/ the submarine races that were held on the Olintangy River at Ohio State University http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/rolleyes.gif ) It looked like the kids had a great time. Some of the engineering was too clever by half and a bit short on real time testing http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Sierrans]

I was looking for something for the whole family. You know, something the kids could submerge in and I wouldn't have to worry all that much. But also something that can keep the old man entertained. I guess I'm looking for a sub for all seasons. Thanks for all your help

[videoguy]

Gee when I build a wooden boat I spend a lot of time money and effort to keep it on top of the water.

[Art Read]

... "I was looking for something for the whole family. You know, something the kids could submerge in and I wouldn't have to worry all that much."

Anybody else get the feeling our collective legs have been "pulled" a bit? I hope? http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[HizzenanHern]

You guys were merciless !

I don't know why a fat cigar-shaped vessel, planked outside of T-section circular stainless steel of silicone bronze frames, with a few full disc SS or SB bulkheads near the ends,and just enough lead ballast to keep it bottom-side down and give it just a bit more than neutral buoyancy, and with a "bilge" for water ballast which could be puped out with a Whale pump. . . propulsion could be from compressed air . . . hell, I like the idea! Come on, you doubters and jybers, I challenge you--come up with some serious suggestions here!

[SculptorSam]

Even if it is a joke, I can't help but add my slight knowledge gained from when I considered building a sub myself. In order to sink, a sub must weigh about 62 pounds for each cubic foot displaced. Now, if you consider a coffin would have about 18 cubic feet of space, let's say you need 30 to be fairly comfortable. If you do the math, this mammoth vehicle for one person must weigh 1860 pounds. Even with steel that is rather heavy and we haven't even considered the pressure exerted on the hull. Needless to say, I am in the process of building my first boat.

[paladin]

Perhaps somthing along the lines of Ferro-cement.......cheap, readily available materials...no trouble sinking...could use compressed air and inner tubes to recover..maybe........batteries at bottom would be ballast...

[Jim Goodine]

I rode diesel boats for 4 years and my guess is that you can't afford to build a submarine. At least not a DRY submarine that you'd want kids to go near. The water pressure must be experienced to be appreciated. The array of complicated and redundant systems on board assures that the number of surfaces exactly equals the number of dives. And air quality is at least as involved.
I suspect that the only practical way to think of a home-built sub is to use a wet ride and scuba. And what about collisions during surfacing? I'm not trying to scuttle your project but I'd likely settle for a nice big Lexan panel in the bottom of a surface craft.

[TomRobb]

The engineering schools' competition subs are more or less elaborate fairings around wet scuba divers pedal powering (usually) propellers around a closed race course.
There are commercial tourist head-boat subs out there that do reef dives for people who can't or won't scuba or schnorkel. Run silent, run deep isn't exactly their bag. Does anyone know anything about those boats?

[Tom Lathrop]

I hope you are pulling some legs or have been reading too much Capt. Nemo. Otherwise, we need to call in some white coats.

Something like Todd mentioned is the nearest thing to a real sub that should even be considered.

[Hugh Paterson]

I heard last week that ex Soviet Navy subs are going cheap, seems they cant even give them away to scrap merchants, somthing to do with them "glowing". Horrible feeling, I suspect however that your family might not want to crew it very often.

Shug.

[TomRobb]

FYI, for anyone w/ the disposable income, see www.ussubs.com (http://www.ussubs.com) for commercial & luxury subs for the guy who has (almost) everything.

[Frank Hagan]

Well, now, these aren't traditional, and they aren't wood, but at only about $1500 a piece to build, perhaps you could build one for each member of your family:

http://www.rqriley.com/imagespln/asub-flm.jpg

(More at http://www.rqriley.com)

You can also just buy one, but again, they don't look too traditional. The yearly maintenance contract on this one is a very reasonable $10,000:

http://www.caribsub.com/images/discoseptside.jpg

(More on this and other commercial subs at http://www.caribsub.com/seahorsesubmarines.htm)

My favorites, though, are those wacky guys who see a spare propane tank and say "Hey, that looks like a submarine!" Just like there are Wooden Boat enthusiasts, there's a group of "Personal Sub" enthusiasts at http://www.psubs.org. For instance, Bill Gifford there thinks he can build this one for under $60,000:

http://www.psubs.org/psub_pic/BillGifford/Image81101a.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

Hey, that little yellow one with the wings is the one that I have the plan set for! I'd better get to work on it though since some of the required pieces of hardware were from a V.W. Squareback and could be hard to find these days.

[chrisk]

I may be gullible here, but there are some interesting plans at http://www.angelfire.com/ks/diyplans/index.html they seem to be kind of a cross between submarines and scuba scooters. If I lived near any descent sized water I'd probably consider one of them so I could stay underwater longer then kicking around on my own.

[Jess Potter]

Forget all that building business.I want to know where I can get a real surplus diesel powered sub anyone know?

[Jess Potter]

Forget all that building business.I want to know where I can get a real surplus diesel powered sub anyone know?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Try the Russian Navy, I think they're having a sale.

[Jim Goodine]

Try the website at www.submarinesailor.com (http://www.submarinesailor.com) and go to the SS section (for diesel boats). Look at some of the boat web pages there and you'll find a lot of Uncle Sam's junk.
Let me warn you, however, that there is a completely different vocabulary that goes with "riding the boats". Forget terms like "topping lift" and "preventer" and "Cunningham". You're going to need real "pigboat language" like "blow safety" and "rackback" and "rain locker" and "watch your bubble" or the worst of all, "blow and go".
I don't think they'll sell you any torpedos which probably takes all the fun out of owning a 300' submarine anyway. Oh, and by the way, it isn't possible to see where you're going from the helm so you need a trustworthy crew to help you steer. Your GPS will be extremely unreliable once the hatches are dogged down and the ocean is overhead. And tell us where you'll be operating so that we can warn away the Japanese fishing fleet.

[pencildragon]

pop open a cold one and check it out

http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/sub.html

craig

[DesignByBird]

Ok Guys ; even if this is a spoof, it’s entertaining.. Ha ! ~ but in reality ‘sub-marine’, simply means ‘under the water(s surface)’, which is what the original ‘revolutionary’ ones almost were ~ simply just below the waters surface..

So if one were to take a large buoyant hull or two, and have helm station, propulsion, steering, and air pumps on these, then it would be relatively easy to design a submersible chamber suspended (& permanently attached) below or in the case of catamaran between the hulls, this could be fitted with a second helm station although I would highly recommend a lookout stationed at all times on deck (that is above the water !).

And in the event of an emergency then simply drop the external ballast and up you would pop ! (external ballast being otherwise attached via lines to the buoyant hulls so as not to litter the ocean bed .. please).

If I remember correctly.. 33ft depth is equivalent of 1 atmosphere, so to drop below the surface 10 or 15 foot is certainly not beyond reason (or practicality), even as a wood construction. Certainly cold moulded wood / epoxy is a real possibility..

Don’t know what are the legislators nor the kids mum would say, but hey., these are just more fun challenges !!

[ 02-21-2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: DesignByBird ]

[Donn]

Here are a couple of sites which occasionally list subs and other military surplus marine "stuff" for sale:

http://www.projectboatco.com/

http://www.projectboats.com/

[Charles Addison]

I've spent some time in some of the more modern submarines. and I can tell you a lot of time, thought and planning goes into building subs. Mostly so that they survive the most hostile enemy, the ocean itself. Pressure on a dry container (the place for your kids to sit)increases (roughly) 50 psi for every 100' of depth. Or 14.7 psi for every 33' if you want to be more precise. This pressure is absolutely relentless and unforgiving. I would not discourage you, Just suggest that you plan well, and know the boats limits and do not exceed them. Not even a little.

[Jim Goodine]

In my above posts, I've tried to touch on some of the technical problems with building a submarine. But now I think I can offer the kind of advice that only years of experience can produce.
Get one of those 30,000 gallon oil tanks that are being discarded by every service station in the country and lightly wash it out with a mixture of fuel oil, lube oil, salt water, hydraulic oil, and used coffee grounds. Do not rinse. Go downtown and find 64 hard-case homeless guys. Make sure that you can't get along with at least 1/2 of them. Get them very drunk. The following morning give each a carton of cigarettes and load them into the tank. Also bring along one western novel with a few missing pages, a casette tape of drug-store music, and a much-repaired copy of "Das Boot". And bring all the food you want. Drill a 1" diameter hole in the tank and take turns peering out of it, but only at night. Don't tell anyone when you'll be getting out of the tank and don't allow any personal hygiene of any kind. Deprive your tankmates of sleep whenever you can.
After a few weeks of this, you'll be ready to settle down to a nice wooden sailboat of sleek design and "Cleekish" construction. And then you'll get all the valuable answers to your questions right here on this forum.

[N. Scheuer]

Have your local public Library bring in a copy of The Great Lakes First Submarine, by Harris.

It tells the story of Lodner Phillips who built submarines in Michigan City, Indiana years and years before John Holland finally got the U.S.Navy interested enough to purchase one of his. Lodner, way ahead of his time, was turned down cold by the Navy, who considered submarines of no use whatsoever.

Lodner's submarines had carvel wood planks fastened to cast iron frames. They were powered by hand cranks and pedals powering a chain drive to the screw.

The book tells how Lodner would often take his family out for Sunday excursions UNDER Lake Michigan.

The Old Lighthouse Museum at Michigan City has scale models and drawings of Lodner's submarines. They also has copies of the book for sale, which is where I got mine.

When The time comes for Michigan City to consider some sort of commemorative vessel to attract tourists to their waterfront, I should think that a full size working replica of one of Lodner's submarines would be just the ticket. I believe they should have a full size half model out on the Lighthouse lawn for kids to climb around in.

[fergie]

Just caught a program last night on TLC about 'Building the Impossible...A Wooden Submarine'. This show went through many of the problems associated with trying to build a wooden sub while trying to stay historical. Haven't looked, but they may have more info on their website.

[chesterm]

Back in 1986 or so two guys from the Lake Champlain VT area made the Burlington Free Press (a Gannette rag) with their "real life yellow submarine". The article was so hokey it was humorous. I saved it somewhere "there is no limit to how deep it can go, dwayne baker said..." the editor finished the article by adding, "the aluminum is rustproof". The thing steered by handlebars.

[Paul Wild]

I saw a show on TLC last night. Some characters were building a wooden submarine. The thing was propelled by oars throught the hull. They used ballast tanks and dive planes combined with the forward motion of the boat to submerge. It looked like a charming way to spend a day with the family...except that within a few minutes the CO2 level in the boat was dangerously high and they had to don oxygen masks....and that moving the boat looked backbreaking and ponderously slow, but maybe it's something the kids could do, nothing like a turn at the oars until you pass out, to straighten the little tykes up. I think the boat was called the Drebble or Drebbel. Have fun......