trad lapstrake working sail

[Murray Campbell]

can anyone recommend some sources for plans for Traditional clinker work boats..., open, 18' to 24' or so...double-ended, tough, beamy, able to carry a load, sprit, lug, standing lug, rough water, rowing for four to six folk,...not yachts.....you know the stuff, yoles, sgoths, sixareens, baltic sea fishboats, beach boats especially

i've found interpretations for glued-ply lap, often scaled down....looking for plans for the real thing...not sure i'm ready to just jump in with nothing more than a set of offsets from a museum

(finished an epoxy ply rudder for my atkins thistle and i realized that i really really dislike working with chemical goop and endgrain... and ply-epoxy is so #*@($ expensive maybe i can just use wood, its what i want anyway)

thanks

[dmede]

John Gardners The Dory Book is a good book. Plans are all scaled down of course but most of them are very detailed with good building descriptions and full plans (not just offsets).

[Hans Friedel]

Here are some picks of klinker boats with sail

http://www.batritningar.se/se/documents/photos_se.htm

Actually my rigg on my 10 foot skiff is actually very trad.

Hans

[WWheeler]

Hans, those plans look might tasty, and reasonably priced. (150 SEK=$26 CDN). My Swedish being non-existent, what's the ordering procedure.

[Hans Friedel]

Just mail Bertil and ask

bertil.andersson@passagen.se

They are working on a English version but it is not ready yet

The drawings are not strictly production plans. But they are nicely done

Hans

[landlocked sailor]

Murray, look at Paul Gartside's stuff. www.gartsideboats.com (http://www.gartsideboats.com) He has some lovely traditionally built stuff. I have plans for his "Skylark" on my someday list. Rick

[batory]

Check this out.I believe it would be a perfect fit
Double ender clinker surf boat made to row , sail
designed to be easy to build
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/6m_whaler/index.htm

John Welsford 6 Metre Whaler

[Don Maurer]

Try Mystic Seaport http://www.mysticseaport.org/research/ro-spwatercraft.cfm

[Murray Campbell]

Thanks folks

been looking at that welsford whaler for months now, functionally it's perfect...i just can't get excited about the ply-epoxy...that and i prefer the idea of re-constructing something that actually was, rather than a modern re-interpretation of a boat concept

the mystic seaport site has me thinking about no man's land boats and block island cowhorns..(and rick, good luck on the skylark!)

the swedish site was a real treat...i love the Skanesnipa, even if it's not going anywhere near the beach...wonder if my mom's swedish is up to translating boat talk? some of those swedish sprits'ls seem much more square than what i'm used to seeing in north america, eh? or am i imagining that?

any polish fishing boat fans out there?

[Venchka]

There was a builder (who also built furniture) and a designer on one of the smaller islands, Gabriola maybe, near you who collaborated on several recreations in the size you mention. GOOGLE might find them. If that's a dead end, try the Boat Building Schools on/near Vancouver Island. If that fails, hire Paul Gartside to design extactly what you want.

Hans Luttmer is the boatbuilder I was thinking of. He took down his boat building pages. He might put you in touch with the desinger who might have the plans.

Luttmer (http://www.luttmerworks.com/index.html)

Use the search feature here.

Wayne
In the Swamp! :D

[ 08-12-2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Hans Friedel]

Murray

Most of the Scandinavian smallboats were rowing boats (Tough guys don't sail) so the riggs and sails were easy to take apart and stored inside the boat. But some of the boats were wery good sailors. And boats like the Skånesnipa were real sailing boats.

The Snipa is in the same group of boats like the Colin Archers

http://www.ssca.nu/

You recognise the sail shape. You will find alot of similar types of boats in the hole Baltic klink build double enders. The Polish fishing boats are problably of this shape. But here I am just guesing.

Hans

[Bill Perkins]

Murray ; just to pick up on what Hans said ; On boats with sails auxiliary to the oars , just used for reaching and running , the sail is shaped to produce the most area per length of stowable spars ,and is squarish . On boats that need an efficient foil for going to windward , the sail tends to get taller than it's base .

[Venchka]

For what it's worth, the folks at the Apprenticeshop in Rockland, ME told me that Iain Oughtred's Caledonia yawl could be clinker built with no problems. I assume they were going to adjust the lines a bit before planking. Iain sells a set of lines for 7 plywood strakes.

An Alaska yellow cedar clinker built Caledonia yawl would be AWESOME!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Murray Campbell]

yep, no kidding...it's just figuring out scantlings and spacing for ribs and such but i guess that's all researchable

i'm sailing up to gabriola in the next few weeks, i may ask around about Luttmer...there is a boatbuilding school there at silva bay which is probably the one you were thinking of

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Dis is what ya wan't.
Ya dont get more Tad Lap Working Sail than this Salisbury Skiff

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid115/pc465340367f72136911986ec0428821c/f8c3769c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid115/p10dff4f44eb4359c8bffb4f7762a7a05/f8c37681.jpg

[WWheeler]

Thanks very much for the information, Hans.

[Hans Friedel]

Here is a Vänersnipa by the name of Hedvig

http://www.trabatsakuten.nu/batbilder/snipor_motorseglare/images/hedvig.jpg

She is rather big 7m 23foot and it looks like she has an inboard motor

Hans

[ 08-17-2004, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Hans Friedel ]

[Murray Campbell]

wow

Hans...the vanersnipa is breaking my heart

i wonder how difficult a hull that would be to plank?? it looks a little "twisty" forward at the garboard???

[Bill Perkins]

Joe that skiff looks great on the river .I've heard of the boats for years but hadn't seen one till you posted a pic of your boat in your yard . They've got serious charm . You might want to try a simple tiller extention ( just a short stick loosely tied to the tiller )so you could sit a little further forward when alone .I think you may be putting her down by the stern a bit , which makes it harder to come about , and generally degrades windward performance .I think adjusting the trim like that would make a noticeable difference on that boat .It's easy to try at least .

[ 08-18-2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

Joe, I think Bill's idea's worth a try.

Look at that daylight under the bow.

Let us know how the experiment works out, the extension may make a bigger difference than you'd expect.

Alan