Another shift in the pendulum

[Wild Dingo]

Ive had an apithany... {is that right?} anyway a change of thought re boats

See I live right near a really large estuary system that feeds into 4 reasonably sized river systems and another estuary system south of here... all fairly shallow waters and all protected... now Ive been considering some options as Ive been cogitating the plans I have to hand...

The rivers take in quite a bit of the lower half of the State... from Mandurah I can wend my way northward to Perth by linking up to another river system or I can head east then south and on into the hinterland... or southward to the Harvey Estuary system the Collie River and Harvey Rivers which then could link me into even more waters south... or else I can just spend months wandering the Peel area without disappearing to far away... Im thinkin of camping and photo expeditions a bit of fishin crabing maybe chuckin out the prawn net and catch a few for me tucker... you call it grunkholing? gungeholin no shite!... gunkholing!! {strewth that was a buggar to remember! :rolleyes: }

The waters are mostly shallow in so far as the rivers rarely are deeper than 3ft and often thin out to around 10 - 15 ft wide with over hanging scrub and bush to either side... most open water is in the actual Peel Estuary itself where the Dawesville cut feeds it from the Indian Ocean...

So Ive been thinking... what about one of those counter sterned taxi boat things of yesteryear... mmmmm... okay shallow draft about 20ft LOA 6 - 7ft beam with an open cabin several seats... I keep recalling seeing some with those boilers in them but I dont want that Id prefer a small chug chug type thumper motor of some discription something I can just meander along the river pull up for an overnight stop but not a houseboat or shanty boat... Im also thinkin of takin tourists a couple at a time and just meander around through rich mans canals given them the good oil on the yobs in their glass houses... make a small quid yer know?...

Im not bein real clear am I? damn! sorta prettier than that thing Bogart movie Afrian Queen I think it was called?... anyway the one Im thinking of is a pretty thing that I reckon may be a good initial build before I tackle that sailboat

So I guess Im askin who knows where I could find a set of plans for something like that? Ive checked all the usual sites but have come up empty handed... either that or Im blind!

Anyway any ideas would be great :cool:

[Wayne Jeffers]

Hey, Dingo!

Looking for a nice displacement boat for shallow draft and low power? How about: http://www.hartley-boats.com/fisher18.html It can be built for inboard or outboard engine. I love the simplicity of this design.

Wayne

[Wild Dingo]

Gidday Wayne!

aahhh the miniture lobstaboat... mmmm yep nice enough but not where my mind was wandering...

Now mate I knew I had a photo of the legendary forumite ol Skuthorp around here with just the boat Im thinkin of... and with a wee tad of searchin and I come up with...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d724b3127cce8db86913a2d10000001610

He keeps tryin to tell me it aint him in that photo but mate we know better! :D

But see that sort of thing would be almost ideal around here during our summers...

So heres hopin that makes the gathered minds job their combined memories for to lead me astray... errrr in the right direction that is! :cool:

[ 09-05-2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[DavesFlatsBoat]

Shane

Thomas Jones has two versions in his "Low Resistance Boats" Book Titled: Boats to Go: 24 Easy-to-Build Boats That Go Fast With Low Power - his Barbados Customs Launch or the Puxe might be the deal- sorry I'm at work - will email you the detail tomorrow AM

Dave

[Keith Wilson]

I've been thinking about something like that to use on the upper Mississippi, and I have almost as much trouble making up my mind as you do. I think I'd need a little more speed, though, and shallow draft is more important in your case. If I were you, I'd look at a outboard-powered boat, if only becuse you can pull up the prop easily, but also for simplicity, economy, and ease of installation and maintenance. Check out Karl Stambaugh's "Redwing" series (you don't have redwings in Oz, do you?)
http://www.naturalretreat.com/images/blackbird.jpg

at Chesapeake Marine Designs. (http://www.cmdboats.com/smlboat.htm) They're flat-bottomed shallow-draft launches powered by a small outboard in a covered well (quiet) which on first consideration seem ideal for puttering about shallow rivers. There are several sizes (18, 21, and 26 feet) and cabin configurations. Here's the smaller one:

http://www.cmdboats.com/images/rw18pix.jpg

You'd have to change the flag, of course. ;)

[ 09-05-2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Wayne Jeffers]

Shane,

Atkin & Company have quite a few plans for utility launches. Their web site has only a small fraction of the boats shown in their catalog. I have the catalog at home, and I'm now at work, so I can't be more specific. http://www.by-the-sea.com/atkin&co/

Phil Bolger drew plans for a launch of the type you show. It's not made of plywood, as most of his designs seem to be. For sale through the WB Store! http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=400-092&variation=&aitem=8&mitem=19.

Jay Benford has a 17-foot fantail launch for steam or small inboard. http://www.benford.us/pcty/17fantail.html

Here's a 25' Weston Farmer classic fantail launch: http://www.oldmarineengine.com/store/Plans/DIANA.htm

Wayne

[whb]

Shane

Nice to see you back.

I am faced with the same quandary here. On my river I will be faced with sections where I need either a 3" draft or portage (gravel/sand bars etc.)

The thoughts I have had so far include

A flat or near flat garvey like Devlin's Honker or Jacques Mertens extreme flats boat.
A small house boat type thing. Jacques Mertens has a 16 foot houseboat that looks the trick www.bateau.com (http://www.bateau.com)

Someone down your way built one. There site is.
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~robruce/

I personally don't think its a graceful boat but it is very practical for a river situation.

A pontoon boat.

Right now I am favouring the pontoon boat.
2 18'x2' pontoons
Draft 6" fully loaded, 3" when everybody gets out and walks.
Powered by any/all of the following Sail, poles,
electric trolling motor, pedal or motor powered paddlewheel. The paddlewheel is especially apt in shallow water conditions. By building the middle deck as removable I will be able to experiment with power options.

Good luck Howard

[dmede]

Nothing to add in the way of ideas Dingo, just wanted to say your idea sounds like a bloody dream! I love the idea of going slow through the backwaters. I hope you find your boat cause it sounds like you have a water playground there.

Dave

[paladin]

I have the plans for the Benford 17 and the 25 if you izz inturrrestid, Shane.....let's me know if'n you izz seerious.

[Wild Dingo]

aaahhh I just new someone would come up with them! Thanks Wayne :cool: ... Bolgers Benfords and Weston Farmers are precisely the thing running around my mind!

As said Im not interested in the boiler thing onboard... too much of a klutz for that and too many hoons aboard at any one time... just a nice slow steady cluncker to putter around in.

I also recall seeing once upon a time somewhere a lifting setup for the shaft of an inboard... or maybe something that went round my head when I was seeing it in my mind? then again it was an older sort of setup I think like a john boat whereby the fella had a lever he worked rather than a tiller as such sorta pushed down on it and up she came to clear the water... mmmm must search it out I guess... no worries

surely not to difficult to design some sort of setup along those lines? but then I dont expect that Id have much need in these waters... truely the more I look around here the more underutilized they are and thank gawd for that! Most fellas around here are too into zooomming around in the deeper waters of the main estuary with their hot shot fibreglass rocket boats either that or tryin their damndest to stay aboard their madly careening Hawke and Hobie cats at a rate of knots flighing a hull or two... me I kinda like to go steady its peace time on the water not rush about enough of that while a fellas workin and muckin about on shore.

The more I think on it and cogitate lookin at the waters and taking the canoe out the more ideal the idea sounds... least ways till I finally decide on the sailboat!... the added bonus is that Ive never seen a one down this way {other than that one up there that Jeff sent me awhile back} so it would have that unique sorta thing to it which is always a plus!

Thanks fellas! :cool:

[whb]

Shane

If you write to these fellows they will send you plans for the lift up inboard. Essentially the motor sits on a rocker and the whole thing tips.

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM

The intent was to allow easy beaching of a fishing boat.

Howard

[ 09-05-2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: whb ]

[dmede]

Dingo, I don't remember the issue (and am not where I can get at them) but WB had an article not too long ago about a design with just the lifting prop mechanism your taliking about. It was a small one man (and dog as I remember) hunting boat. very interesting design and detailed info on how to set up the lifting prop. I'll take a look at the back issues page and see if I can find it.

[ 09-05-2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Bruce Taylor]

Shane, you might be thinking of the much-loved Dippy..the fabulous Disappearing Propeller Boat of yesteryear.

http://www.disappearingpropellerboat.com/images/1921catalogue12.jpg

[Keith Wilson]

Traditional fantail launch hulls are very lovely, pretty complicated to build, and draw an awful lot of water for your river. The Bolger design draws 22", the 17' Benford 20". They are based on steam launch hulls, which were optimized for large slow-turning props and bad power-to weight ratios, and because of this are pretty deep. The keel timber usually goes down almost as far as the botom of the prop, so building a Dispro-type boat out of one of those designs doesn't seem feasible to me. (The large power dories from St. Pierre and Miquelon used a similar retracting propellor, BTW) If I were going in water that thin, I'd want a flat-bottomed boat with a retractable prop (or a jet drive, but that's another animal entirely).

FWIW, Atkin has a couple of riverboat designs that use a stern-mounted paddlewheel.

[ 09-05-2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Paul H]

While it isn't a classic powerplant, if you want shallow water propulsion, you might want to look into a go-devil. Me thinks if one were equiped with one of the little Yanmar diesels, it would fit the bill.

[Nicholas Carey]

What you need is the traditional Thai "longtail"

http://www.supergroovey.com/snaps/thai_bangkok/thai_bnk_longtail_boats_low.jpg

One engine on the boat end of a long pintle-mount driveshaft with a prop on the business end.

Ya just raise the prop enough to clear any obstacles.

<a href="http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/kanchanaburi-longtail-boats-1.jpg" target="_blank">
http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/thumbs/t_kanchanaburi-longtail-boats-1.jpg</a> (159k JPG)

<a href="http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/kanchanaburi-longtail-boats-2.jpg" target="_blank">
http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/thumbs/t_kanchanaburi-longtail-boats-2.jpg</a> (150k JPG)

<a href="http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/kanchanaburi-longtail-boat-solo.jpg" target="_blank">
http://hock.net/photos/thailand/kanchanaburi/thumbs/t_kanchanaburi-longtail-boat-solo.jpg</a> (140k JPG)

And a longtail is big enough to carry you, Possumpuss and all the hoons...and some friends :D

[JimD]

One entry found for epiphany.


Main Entry: epiph·a·ny
Pronunciation: i-'pi-f&-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Middle English epiphanie, from Middle French, from Late Latin epiphania, from Late Greek, plural, probably alteration of Greek epiphaneia appearance, manifestation, from epiphainein to manifest, from epi- + phainein to show -- more at FANCY
Date: 14th century
1 capitalized : January 6 observed as a church festival in commemoration of the coming of the Magi as the first manifestation of Christ to the Gentiles or in the Eastern Church in commemoration of the baptism of Christ
2 : an appearance or manifestation especially of a divine being
3 a (1) : a usually sudden manifestation or perception of the essential nature or meaning of something (2) : an intuitive grasp of reality through something (as an event) usually simple and striking (3) : an illuminating discovery b : a revealing scene or moment :D

How about a something like a San Juan dory with an outboard mounted in a well midships?

[Aramas]

I wouldn't bother with the 'taking tourists' bit - the qualification, legislation and insurance issues probably aren't worth it.
But it sounds like what you want is the ubiquitous 'putt putt' that still swings on moorings in every waterway in the country, and are still used as workboats.
Generally they had single or twin cylinder petrol engines that were started by swinging the flywheel. Blaxland 'Pup's' are still being made here if you want a newbuild.

[TonyH]

Shift in the pendulum? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Dingo you don't half make me laugh mate! :rolleyes: tongue.gif :D

Anyways, I guess this means I'll have to sift through the plans collection at least one more time, huh? As wayne suggest, the Atkins did a lot if nice, shallow-draught easy-to-build, 20-ish foot boats. I think Bill garden has a fantail launch design too, as does Phil Bolger of course. I agree it sounds like a fun way to see the estuaries in that part of the world. It would be a nice doable project too. I guess we're talking something like a Yanmar 1GM10 inboard diesel for power? What's the max draught you're willing to consider?

BTW, it was great catching up with you last week. What a hoot! I'll try to make it down to Mandurah next time.

I went to the WA Maritime Museum later that week, isn't Trixen looking beautiful? Seems a pity to keep her locked up indoors - she should be out sailing.

Cheers

Tony

[Wild Dingo]

Now Tony me ol cobber dont go bein like that mate! I mean surely tis not such a quantum shift in peramiters to wander from the 30 odd foot luggar to a 20ish foot fantail launch is it? ;)

Mate it was a real pleasure to get to sit down and have a yarn no worries... anytime! heck next time I may even be feelin well and then we will see who can yap the most! :eek: :D ...you had me at a disadvantage mate fair crook I was and there yer were fit healthy and yammerin me socks off an all a fella could do to keep me nose from running away with me throat!

Trixen... aahhh yeah shame that she do look purty sittin there forever more locked in that concrete and glass monstrosity called a museum... true shame but real purty. :cool:

So how'd the drawings look? should I continue muckin with them or give it a miss as a bad joke?

Okay back to me ideas :D

much food for thought fellas... the idea of payin customers really was one of those "wow what about?" you know let the ideas storm... that was one of them! nice idea but dont think so the hoons would kill me if I did that when they want it... I took a wee drive around today and found nothing remotely similar around here and took a wee trip on a wee boat that the owner was sorta havin a pretend "work day" on her I think in reality he was gettin some time out from the missus just potterin with the boat... nice one similar to the lobsta type boats cute as a nut but still...

They are rather beautiful... and doable.

[Wild Dingo]

Okay lets see I think I need to clear this up a tad...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d724b3127cce8db86913a2d10000001610

lookin at this critter... shes rather shallow.. I mean the fellas standing on shore and the boats right next to him floating in probably just a few scant inches of water... thats what Im after! ...but shes not that sharpie style nor the typical flat bottom and sides that you get shes got some class some shape to her... maybe a centreboarder? dont think so for some reason but shes got a fair sort of shape to her hasnt she

See the waters are for the most part only around a depth of 1ft or less for up to 100 yards offshore and then slowly gets deeper... the rivers get down to around 4 or so feet in the midstream but for my puddling Im planning on sticking around the shorelines of which I can meander for many many miles all the way south to Bunbury if I choose to just pulling up and camping as I wish...

I cant seem to see me parkin the boat out beyond the shore 50 to 100 yards and walking in lugging everything with me... I will need to get the boat into shore in less than a foot of water... I wish the heck I could find out what design that thing is!

Thats the one Bruce!! Howard I had a gander around that site but saw nothing regarding a liftup inboard... will shoot them an email and see what they respond with... no worries

Thanks fellas!! :cool:

[ 09-06-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[garland reese]

Hey Dingo,

Here's a nice River laumch for electric, deisel or steam. You could do away with the cabin. From Paul Fisher.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Edwardian26Pp1.jpg


ABOVE - Left, an Edwardian 26 just kisses the water and Right - the counter stern moulds before planking.
Having put the lines of an original 25’ LIFU launch into our computer system we have used this shape in the development of this 26’ Edwardian Launch. The LIFU launches were very successful and were known for their good sea keeping qualities when being used as tenders for the big racing yachts of the time. We have taken the original lines and increased the beam to the maximum for canal use and changed the bow and stern shapes to give a fan tail stern and moderate schooner bow in similar fashion to some of the Thames launches. The full construction plans have a forward engine arrangement in a cockpit with an aft saloon with raised ‘clerestory’ housing a galley, settees and wc. This arrangement can be altered to suit and steam, diesel or electric power units may be used. Enough displacement volume has been built in to take the batteries necessary for electric power. Details are shown for strip planked construction and the mould shapes given have been computer faired so that no lofting is required. Beam is 6'10".
Note - we have drawings and details available showing the modifications for 2 other versions of the Edwardian 26 - a narrower 6'6" beam version with a plumb (vertical) stem and a version with a wider 8' beam.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Ed26d1.gif

[ 09-06-2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

[htom]

I was going to suggest Bolger's Black Skimmer or Birdwatcher, but neither of those is a putt-putt, and both are sharpies. Your requirement of extremely shoal draft makes it hard to get a prop in the water. One of LFH's does this in a foot and a couple of inches using twin props (Meadowlark?) but doesn't seem to be what you're looking for, either.