Swampscott Dory

[DougC]

After a lot of research, drawing, calculation and daydreaming I'm pretty close to commiting to a design.
After reading all of John Gardner's books and some trips to Mystic Seaport it's the swampscott dories I keep going back to. The 16 ft. modified Swampscott dory looks like a great one. I like his earlier version (from "Building Classic Small Craft Vol.I")with its 53" beam. He later revised it with a wider beam and transom for more stability under sail. I want a rowing boat so the earlier version is a better design for me.
Has anyone here built this boat? I would use sawn oak frames and plank it glued ply lapstrake (using the methods JG describes for other dories). Is this to much to take on for a first boat? I also looked at some skiffs -- the 14ft. Amesbury and the 13 ft. Chamberlin (saw the "original" at Mystic). Both beautiful boats though they don't get me going the way the Swampscott does. I'll be rowing in Cape Cod Bay so I need something seaworthy. Any thoughts on how the dory would fare if I hauling a lobster pot in?
Great list. Thanks
Doug

[rbgarr]

I had a 15' OA Banks type dory that I would not have been comfortable pulling lobstertraps in, especially in potentially choppy water like Cape Cod Bay. When I sat on one side the dory would heel almost to the gunwale and pulling up an object like a lobstertrap would make things even less stable. Full bodied peapods are better designs for hauling traps under oars.

[Ian McColgin]

Your boat will be somewhat less resilliant than my Leeward, the 18' chamberlain gunning dory, but will behave much the same way and should be fine for pulling. The stability curve is unlike the banks dory - both have little initial stability but the swampscott model will gain stability quite rapidly as the gunnel approaches the water.

I could stand amidships on the gunnel when I still weighed 250# and not ship water. Now that I've shed a good bit of that, I can prance on the gunnel.

When I blew a landing through the surf and broached, Leeward would happily surf broadside and not trip on her leeward rail. Sailing in a high wind I always figured that the rig would carry away long before she was in any real danger of getting the rail under.

You may find she feels a bit more tippy if you play around in the ends than shifting your weight while amidships.

When I was hand long-lining off the Oregon coaste, I brought it in over the midships oar lock using Leeward's bouyancy. Starting leaned to the line, gunnel dipped as low as may be. Just lean and step back a little to rock the boat up, hauling up some line. Lean foreward taking in the slack as the gunnel dips. Repeat until you realize that there are many many better ways to earn your salt than fishing.

G'luck

[DougC]

Ian, So I guess I am on the right track. That 18' Chamberlin Gunning Dory is a beauty. Did you use seam and batten construction or lapstrake? What kind of wood did you use for the bottom and frames. If you have any pictures I'd love to see them. Thanks, Doug

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I belive that any lapstrake boat is easier to build than a carvel one, and have recomended a dory or a skiff as a first boatbuilding project several times.

[Ian McColgin]

Seam batten. When I built her starting in '74 in many different basements on the Oregon coaste ("Really, it'll just take a couple of weeks . . . ") I couldn't find a live and present guru. Reading Gardiner was pretty good but not at all the same.

I now think that Thadd is probably right - lapstrake is not really so hard and is a very nice way to tackle epoxy/ply construction.

The big advantage of seam-batten, as I went, is that any jerk (moi) can get things to come out right.

I made numerous departures from Gardiner's directions because I just knew I was smarter than he was. Ah well. I do learn from my mistakes. Some I commit many times just to be sure I've really learned.

The two gravest errors I made were:

Inadequate strong back. This led to the stems spreading a bit so Leeward is a bit longer than designed. Also some deflection as I bent the planks on making correct lining of the planks a little hard, but hidable with thickened epoxy.

and

Not bringing the battens all the way to the stems. I was idioticly afraid of all that framing soming close together and afraid of notching the stems. Foolish. I stopped them at the smallest frame at each end. This led to an interesting 'bow wave' effect between graboard and midstrake in the bow - for some reason it did not happen in the stern.

I like seam batten but lapstrake would flatten spray a little better, maybe.

G'luck.

[PugetSound]

Ian,
Since you're on the subject of the Chamberlain Gunning dory (a boat I've admired) I have a few questions to throw at you. Reason is the usual, I'm trying to decide what my next project will be.....

- does the Chamberlain weathervane terribly?
- how is it when pulling to windward?
- when sailing, did you install a centerboard (ala Gardiner...) and how well did it point (I would guess about 50 degrees?)?
- what was the approximate weight?

[DougC]

Ian, thanks for the further info. I searched the archives here and learned more about your boat. I'd say your kind of fond her -- sort of like me and my dog.
The Chamberlain Gunning Dory is one that jumped out at me the minute I saw it's picture. I was a little put off by the seam batten construction and 18' seemed big. Also I really like the look of a tombstone transom -- don't know what it is about it. May have to do a 1/8 scale drawing of Gunning Dory and reconsider. I didn't see one at Mystic, but I saw a lot of other nice Swampscotts. Initially it was a Banks Dory I saw in Provincetown harbor that made me want to build -- but I'm glad I looked farther and found the Swampscott.
I've done a 1/8 lines drawing for every boat I've considered -- I'm getting pretty good at it -- started with the 12'6" Chaisson Dory Tender, then it was the Chamberlain 13' dory skiff, then the 17' Dion Swampscott and so on. Have learned a lot in the process. Sound familiar?
Curious about your answers to PugetSound.
Doug

[johnh94927]

Ian - really cool stuff you've been posting here. I started a Gardner dory, then dropped it for a Banker when the going got... bogged down. I wanna hear more about your story about the boat, and also about dropping from 250#.
Not because I need to, of course, but just because...
Here or offline.
- JohnBoy

[Ian McColgin]

OK, dropping weight first - I posted "To My Shame" at the start of the summer. That shares a motivation. One nice consequence of drinking a lot less turns out to be shedding blubber. Another consequence is that I can afford to drink only good scot's whiskey and stay in budget.

Leeward weathercocked annoyingly when I rowed oars on the center station and I had no cargo or passenger in the stern. That was fully resolved by adding the rudder, to which I'm now addicted.

The rudder is controlled by a line system around the gunnels and reachable anywhere. Basicly, a line goes around the blet pully on the rudder post back to a couple of turning blocks and then forward on each side, spliced to the becket of a small block. The steering rope around the gunnel starts at the aftermost frame and back to the block, then around the boat to the other block. Gives the steering rope a 2:1 that makes handeling it easier. That line is also larger, just for convenience of handeling.

The board is located ala Gardiner but rather than the traditional dory style, it's a flat trunk and the board is operated by a lever on the pivot. This way I don't get a wet butt and the CB trunk is a little more comfortable to sit on for rowing. (The aft end of the trunk does have a #*%&hole that can be opened up to ram a stick down when the board gets jammed by sand.)

You can go to sleep rowing straight up wind, but I find it far more work than I want to do if the wind is more than about 15kt and I find it more work than I can do (except for the very shortest sprints) if the wind is over 25kt. Here's where the board and rudder really pay their way. If I row about 3 points off the wind, Leeward seems to get some areodynamic lift and is not hard to move at all. So I tack home.

In flat water, it takes about 10 min to get the roughly 3/4 nm from shore to Grana's mooring. Roughly 4.5kt straight going. In rough conditions 35kt - 40 kt howling SE) it's taken me about 30 min to cover the same point to point by way of a roughly (count a little leeway) mile to mile and a tenth. Beats not getting there at all.

I put a cam cleat a little below the natural run of the line on the forward of the midframes. i can easily reach either while rowing. I just tweek the line into the right place to hold Leeward on course when rowing across or down wind. Since she naturally weathercocks, I need only secure one side to give a smudge of weather helm.

Leeward has grown heavier over the years - haven't we all. She was smashed on some riprap about 15 years ago, which is when she got a glass skin. I put in amost 3" of foam on the bottom and added a new inside bottom to stand on to make her self-bailing. Nice but heavey. Judging from where she floats, she's closing in on 500# now fully rigged. The bare hull before any paint, rigging etc, was about 200# - food for thought.

The CB location really cries out for a jib or some other sailarea forward of the current center. The wierd sortasliding gunter I made to somewhat higher dimensions than JG showed in the book has a noxious weatherhelm unless I loll in the stern sheets. Well, that's not so bad. I'm going to make a balanced chinese lug that should move the CE far enough forward. No danger of going too far since the board can be lowered to verticle and thus can chift CR all over the place as I choose.

We'll see how the ambition level gets this winter.

At any rate, nothing will make these boats windard witches. I usually sail about 5 points off the wind, sometimes 6, to keep her footing. She dies a terrible and painful death if you pinch her at all.

As mentioned in another post, I 'motor sail' - both row and sail - to weather in light wind. I can steer to about 3 points off the wind then and both out point and out foot the local frost bite fleet, but of course I'm rowing and they are not. When they wind picks up, they beat me on every point of sailing as the narrow stern does not give her much bearings and over 4.5kt her wake grows to the point of too much work.

Leeward is finast kind for what she is - an easily built incredibly seaworthy boat of astonishing versitility. There's lots of wherris and whitehalls and such that row faster in flat water or harbor chop. Almost anything sails better. But this dory will bring you and yours out there and back not only alive, but usually not even scared.

If I am ever reduced to only one boat in all the world, this is it.

[DougC]

Ian, thanks for the further information. I compared the lines of Gardner's 16 ft. modified Swampscott (first version) with his Gunning Dory and they're remarkably similar. Also read some archived posts about your boat, all very interesting. It sounds like a double ender will take a wave from the stern better, though the transom stern tracks better. Is this right?
The rudder sounds liek a good idea though a little hard to visualize. Gardner designed a rudder for the swampscott.
I don't know much about sailing and wasn't planning on putting a centerboard in. We'll see. There's enough to figure out already.
Doug

[Ian McColgin]

The off-center rudder shipped on a rudder stock through a port works great - I think better than the transom hung rudder with its rather large rake and tendency to be really hard to set back in after you scrape the dirt. It is smaller and has a bit less positive control but dories stall out at excess rudder angle and low speed no matter what and I've not noticed much difference.

In general, the swampscott should have slightly better sailing charactoristics, but Leeward sails rings around a friend's 16' swampscott. We've not tried swapping boats so not all variables eliminated and Leeward is a little odd to sail so just a swap might not be a fair test. I might be able to beat my friend in a boat swap for that reasone, but I'm pretty sure that I could not beat myself. Much of this may be simple size - pretty important porportionally in such small boats - and I'd love to sail next to an 18' Swampscott sometime just to see.

Put the CB in. Absolutely worth the price of admission if you're going to row across rough water.

Leave out the thwart that goes across the aft end of the CB trunk. Widen the cap on the trunk to a comfortable size - 4" - 6" with a little pad on each side as wanted. Whether you go with a keyed lever on the pivot, as I did, or the simple dory approach shown in the drawings (all said and done probably better than my overengineered approach) you need a gap along the center of any padding.

Padding is not actually needed - even the traditional dory CB in up position the rod lies right along the center of the trunk and is small enough to not bother you. In the down position, the T is under flat wood.

I'm so into the advantages of boards that I'm fitting the dink Tibbotts with one side board for across the wind work.

G'luck

[Art Read]

Hey, Doug... Was that Banks dory you saw in P-town bright orange with a particularly scary/"salty" looking guy with a beard at the oars? Quite a story behind that guy...

[jimnmad]

Doug, I am just finishing the 16 modified Swampscott dory from Gardner's book. I built it with cedar for the planking and oak for the frames . I have the oar sockets to put in and that is about it. I want to put it in the water this year before the lakes freeze up just to say i did. We started putting it together just a year ago with about two additional months beforehand to collect all the materials. We tried to faithfully follow the book but got off on our own several times due to ignorance. All in all it looks pretty good but the proof is in the pudding. This winter we will get the centrboard, rudder and steering arrangement(yoke or Tiller?) and make the mast and sails. I have some Norway spruce for the mast(Birdsmouth?) and am planning to use a gaff rig. Any suggestions would be appreciated. This is a first attempt and while far from perfect , it has been a thoroughly enjoyable project.

[PugetSound]

Ian, thanks for the invaluable info. Now I'm going to have to buy a printer so that I can put a hard copy of your answer in my copy of Gardner's Dory Book. Add some pictures and it would make a really nice article in Woodenboat (and a sorely needed one at that....). Think about it.

Doug,
I say a Chamberlain Gunning Dory at the Port Townsend Woodenboat Show a couple of years ago. A stunningly beautiful boat. Also, at 18 feet overall length (not the usual way to measure dorys, I know) it is about as small as you would want it to be.

[DougC]

Have been lofting this thing all day. It's making sense, the lines and the battens are fairing up except for one measurement toward the stern. Its heighth was off by 1/2" -- funny thing is that it was of by 1/16" on my 1/8 scale drawing. Something off about the palnking back there. Will have to look at some similar boats in Mystic and see what's up.
One note on lofting -- I had some sense of how to proceed from Gardner's "Dory Book", then when I went to other sources it was more complicated. Gardner doesn't mention buttocks or diagonals, or waterlines for that matter. It's all frame knuckles and planks. This seems to make sense for construction. Is Dory lofting it's own idiom? I looked at Gardner lines for other boats (eg. a carvel planked peapod) and there were the buttocks.
Well a long day. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving and I have the flu. More questions soon.
Doug

[Ken Hall]

Ian, I'm with Puget. Your description is absolutely gold, and you should consider submitting an article for publication in WB. I'm going to copy & paste into a file somewhere, too--I plan to build a pirogue and do most of my rowing in sheltered waters, but I will likely want a dory someday too, and there's a gold mine of practicality and ingenuity in your solutions. Many thanks for sharing.

Ken

[Will]

Ian I've also always read your Leeward comments with interest .I've been interested in that boat ever since I saw it in John Gardners book but you're the only other user I've read of .If an article for WB seems like too much hassle M.A.I.B. is a simpler mag.I bet you would stimulate the construction and launch of a few more of these with such an article .

[Ian McColgin]

Thanks for your remarks - I actually wrote a great article (say so myself) published in the early '70's in the North Coaste Times Eagle published at the time in Cannon Beach, Oregon. Also sent it to John Gardiner to publish in the Fisherman, there not being a WoodenBoat then, but he worried about copyright issues.

It was a fairly lighthearted description of all the many ways I 'improved' on JG's directions and the first row through 6' surf.

My only copy went down with Goblin in Hurricane Bob. Otherwise, I'd share it.

But as compensation (or penalty) let me offer:

Hyannis is a sailors' hrobor with a church spire
To guide the tired navigator home from the old channel
East of Egg Island, home past the Fiddlehead
And home behind the shoals off Harbor Bluff.
But I am rowing through life, looking back to find my way
And the spire guides me south south east
Away from the home and hazzards of shore
To the simpler hazzards and home of sea.

Rowing is the art of back bearings;
Of the past as guide through where we've been before
And a straight course into the unknown.
If we're to keep the stroke, our glimpses ahead
Are but brief saturations
Of our sensitive periferal sight by indirection.