1st time poster looking for opinions...

[Skillet1927]

Hello gang! I am a first timer here so go easy on me...

I have inherited my grandfather's antique engine collection that he and I have worked on for years. It includes several outboard motors and one very special engine I would like to properly put back to work. It is a 1915 Caille Perfection Motors 8HP single cylinder two stroke. It runs both forward and reverse, with a flip of a cam lever on the magneto. Beautiful brass all over engine, it really could have been the centerpeice of our collection had we had more time together. :(

What type of boat should I put it in? We found it in north Idaho on the Pend O'Reille (sp?) river, still in its original rotten hull. I was young at the time, and don't remember much about the boat other than it was long, I'd guess 30 ft or so, with substantial beam. Due to space and logistical constraints, a trailerable boat of no longer than 20 ft would be practical. I am particularly partial to a fantail tugboat type craft (a wheelhouse would be superb), as my grandfather and I both appreciated the working heritage of these boats. This is to be a tribute to my grandfather, so I'd like to keep it along the tugboat lines. Due to the nature of the engine, it will have to be exposed and accessible from the helm to control when running by myself.

The engine is about 300 pounds, runs at 175 - 350 rpm and has a tremendous amount of torque. I have been advised elsewhere that there is no hull fitting my specs that could handle this engine, as the vibrations and torsion from reversing the engine direction would tear the boat apart. What type of construction would hold up and be period passible if not correct? I put it to you, Wooden Boat gurus, to help me return a proud piece of maritime history to work and keep the memory of my grandfather alive...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Chris

[TonyH]

Well, I'd suggest having a look at the designs of both William Garden and William Atkin, for a start. Both had a real affinity for such engines (Garden especially) and designed lots of solid little workboat-inspired craft in the size range you mention. There are two books of Garden's plans published, and lots of Atkins (for an overview of the latter try MotorBoating Ideal series Vol 51, 363 boats you can build).

Good luck!

Tony

[imported_Conrad]

Jay Benford has also designed a number of small character type boats, several of which would be suitable. As for the strength issue, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with a craft that can handle the loads involved. After all, your engine generates far less hp. and torque than a V8 of comparable weight.

http://www.liveaboard.com/bdg.html

[paladin]

Jay has a little 14 foot tug "Grivit" that would seem ideal for this engine......

[imported_Steven Bauer]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid37/pac6853cac14d09901929e0162d40fc13/fd1a3cfd.jpg

[Norske3]

Is this mans other alias...RXXX?... :D

[Keith Wilson]

If you want to put the engine in an elegant hull, a superb example is Phil Bolger's 23' Fantail Launch. (If anyone needs to be told anymore that Mr. Bolger designs other things than ugly plywood boxes, just look at this boat.) It very much resembles a design from the period when the engine was built. I can't put in a link directly to the page, but go to the WB store and search on "Fantail Launch". I think it would be just about perfect. Shiny brass amid varnished oak and mahogany would enhance the scenery wherever she goes. You could build it strong enough to handle the engine torque; heavyish cold-molded construction would be best from an engineering standpoint, if not for period authenticity, and would handle trailering well.

[ 11-21-2002, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[WWheeler]

If you're looking for opinions, you've come to the right place. smile.gif

I'd taken a fancy to Sam Devlin's tugboat "Godzilla". The name's kind of misleading, it's quite a sweet harbour tug. It's 22' feet, and looks completely balanced in design, not a toy at all. It was designed for a Saab one cylinder diesel. Adapting it for your engine may require some adjustment of the engine compartment, but the weight/power etc is probably not far different.

[ 11-21-2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]

[Ian McColgin]

Put it in a St Pierre dory with a dispro (disapearing propeller).

Then learn to do the Bert & I routine about firing up the Bluebird.

[nedL]

Ian, I haven't heard about Bert & I in Yyeears!!
smile.gif As for a hull design, the torque is nothing you need to worry about on the hull (for anything better than a soapbox anyway). The issue you may need to deal more with is finding a hull design that will swing a big enough prop to put the torque to use. It will take a bit of research on your part, but I wouldn't be suprised if that engine could swing a 20" or bigger prop. That is something that the traditional fantail launch designs could handle. - Just a thought.

[gary porter]

As Ian said, the St.Pierre Dories used engines of that type. Most were Atlantics or Acadias and many of the 8hp range. The 8hp Atlantic is a two cylinder engine that turns about 450rpm. Too bad you can't bring up more memory on the original boat. Its possible being from Idaho that the design and or the engines were used more on the west coast. Do you know where the engine is made?
Gary

[gary porter]

To answer my own question, it seems the engine was built in Detroit Mi.
Gary

[Alan D. Hyde]

My Uncle Jack had a big dory with an engine like that in the midships engine box. Big prop and all kinds of torque. Slow rpm's.

Kind of the Newburyport, Mass. answer to a St. Pierre dory.

I think the type's well worth looking at.

Alan

[Skillet1927]

Thanks folks, this is great!

A few replies/ comments:

Norske3 - I am not RXXX, however I followed that link with great interest. Since the subject has been broached, here's my 2 cents. I was unimpressed with a few of the attitudes of the members toward RXXX. They had apparently forgotton about the basic rules of the forum, which newbie had read when he registered and had a reasonable expectation that the rest of the forum would adhere to. They are as follows:

Everything we should have learned in kindergarten applies here.

Be nice to others.

Share.

Say you're sorry when you hurt someone.

Don't use bad words.

Tell the truth.

And, don't unplug the incubator 'cause the chicks won't hatch.

(apologies to Robert Fulghum)

WWheeler - I, too, like Devlin's tug. It would be a relatively simple matter to make the engine accessible to the wheelhouse...

I will look at all the suggestions provided for me, and I thank you all for taking the time to consider my situation.

Keep 'em coming!!

Chris

[Donn]

Chris...I'm working on 2 different old woodies that you could put it in...a 1935 Garvey and a 1968 Seabright Skiff. :D

[Skillet1927]

LOL LOON,

Thanks for the offer, but I was thinking of keepin her in boat here on the West Coast! tongue.gif

Chris

[Hughman]

Chris
Try Weston Farmer's "From My Old Boatshop"- lots of discussion of one-lung designs.

I have been looking for a good project for an old engine, as well http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid23/pb6bae2f80438aa554208b4a2d1c65847/fda42c74.jpg

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by Skillet1927:
Hello gang! I am a first timer here so go easy on me...

What type of boat should I put it in?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

ChrisWell Chris in one word... mine! :D

Now of course Im gonna have to build the boat for it to fit into but hey no worries I havent settled on anything in particular yet as I get too danged confused everytime I think I have someone here gives me something else to have a gander at and so back to square one and confusion... so I reckon we can help each other out here mate... I think Ive just offered you a wonderful out my friend :cool: ...no I dont want a mate of mine worrying about what he should do with a beautiful motor... etching lines of concern onto his dial... no not me! I cant do that to you... so to save you from that just send her over and let me worry about building the perfek boat for it to do justice to your grandpas memory hey heck I will even take a bunch of pics for you to stick on the wall!! :D

Gawd dont tell me I gotta be seriass??... well okay then that tug looks sweet or then again perhaps you could build one of them paddle wheelers and whack her in that?... mmmmm whilst Im musin here how would a steam engine go in a coaster schooner? or maybe in Iain Oughtreds Elf design?? a wee viking boat with an whopper engine amidships?!! whoooeee! imagination goin nuts here peoples :eek:

Okay sorry about that mate... just a wee momentary lapse of serious brain tissue there... it will improve tomorrow... maybe!

Best of luck mate :cool: sounds a great idea
Take it easy
Shane

[Dave Fleming]

Take a gander at Pete Cullers Gracie or as mentioned one of Bill Gardens designs.

[Skillet1927]

Dave - are you associated w/ the CWB in Seattle? They have a Culler tug w/a diesel in it. I volunteer down there to run the steamboat (S/L Puffin) occasionally. Maybe I've seen you around...

By the way, ANYBODY can come down to the Center for Wooden Boats and get FREE rides from me or one of my counterparts over the weekend unless weather or lack of good wood for fuel (donations are always welcome) shuts us down. Check out the website for info, and you should call ahead to make sure we'll be down there. Also, rides are available on the Betsy D, a beautiful New Haven Sharpie.

http://www.cwb.org/

Hope to see you down there.

Chris

[Skillet1927]

Dingo -

Your generosity leaves me speechless...

At least LOON had an actual boat or two ;)

I would be happy to partner up w/you, provided you wouldn't mind keeping OUR boat in Seattle! We actually get rain here, though it's been really light this fall.

I met some folks from down under that I took on a steamboat tour of Lake Union. He said he was going to buy/build a steamboat to run up and down the Murray River. I gave him info, hopefully he'll remeber to keep in touch so I can have an excuse to get down there and show him how to run it!! :D

Chris

[Dave Fleming]

Skillet, no I am not associated with the CWB.
Live in San Diego, sigh.

[Mark Van]

Get the book "Pocket Cruisers & Tabloid Yachts" by Jay Benford. He has a full-page add in Woodenboat. It has full plans for 6 small cruising craft, 4 of which would be good for that engine, including 2 beautiful fantail launches, and a few tugboats.

Mark

[caskillet]

Time to dredge up the ol' post. This is Skillet1927 under a different name (forgot old password and I've switched IPs). It has finally come to fruition; I've gotten my St. Pierre Dory. It is a Lunenberg seine dory built by none other than The Dory Shop (http://www.doryshop.com). It currently has an 9.9 Yamaha four-stroke in a well, and I'll run her like that for a while, but the Caille will find a home in her eventually. She's got a lug rig with a mast tabernacle, twin keels for a hint of windward ability, and a pair of nice oars.
The dory's finish is workboat rough, just the way I like it, with an unfinished cabin. To get Mrs. Skillet in on the fun, however, requires some cabin mods (I've already been told the head must consist of more than a cedar bucket). Any ideas out there? Anybody have experience w/ this and/or are aware of a site that has photos/diagrams of large dory interiors? I'd like to do some overnight cruising in Puget Sound with some degree of comfort.

[Venchka]

Way to go! Can't go wrong with a dory from The Dory Shop. If you don't own in already, buy a copy of The Dory Book by John Gardner. Prowl around the internet for St. Pierre dory plans. You might get ideas from them. The Atkins have plans for a cruising dory that might give you some more ideas. Use GOOGLE and search for St. Pierre dory.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[mmd]

What you see below is not a tug. It is a Bush Island boat, circa 1932, fitted with an 8-hp Acadia Gas Engines one-lunger. As traditional as it gets 'round here.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid147/p0b4a6ceca2f0a3c4b3193f6c04b1fd85/f6284aec.jpg

[Alan D. Hyde]

A good looker, Michael.

Sounds like a good dory, Skillet.

Photos??? :D

Alan

[Paul Stohlman]

Hi Chris,

You have some good resources in Seattle. The Center for Wooden Boats has a great library of plans. I was at the Victoria Boat Festival this year and there were quite a few steam powered boats. Their power plant takes up alot of space and weight.

Good luck on your search.

[Paul Stohlman]

Sorry, I posted without reading all of the previous...so you know about the CWB and steam launches.

Good luck still applies