Shearwater? Or?

[HiramCarter]

After lurking for several weeks and after reading, virtually, all the previous posts, I thought it time to jump in with my first question.

I'm a novice sailor (is there anything below novice?) but I've done a bit of general and finish carpentry, cabinetry and I work as a Painter/Sculpter. (BTW, I love to sand - don't know why - just do.) So... I've been looking at Joel White's Shearwater, after looking at the Caledonia and Ness Yawls which are lovely and sleek but too large for my work space and perhaps too much for a 1st time builder - the Shearwater seems more straightforward I think. I've looked at a couple Dias designs, Bolger designs, various "double-enders", transoms, flat bottoms, V-bottoms and on and on it goes. As I've read, here, many times, "so many boats, so little time".

The Shearwater is a truly beautiful boat and I would love to build it but I'm concerned it might be a bit "tippy" for a weekend boater with two, (maybe three) "non-sailing" guests on board. What do you think of the stability of the Shearwater and the number of passengers one could haul?

Are there recommendations for double-enders, 16-17 feet, that would be more suitable for day sailing on the Chesapeake and Penobscot Bays? Trailerable? Beachable?

Any help would be appreciated, HiramCarter

[gert]

Being a very novice sailor who just finished Joel's Shearwater and just came back from 11 days of daily sailing (pictures soon) in various conditions including white caps on a gusty lake, I have these observations:
She's a total hoot.
Very stable, handles wakes and swells very well.
Fast and responsive in a good breeze.
Doesn't like extremely light winds (good opportunity to sun tan though)
Stick with the designers push/pull tiller; I did a conventional tiller first and later returned to the push pull with bolted fastenings, this gives a very posative feel.
Get reef points in the sail. I don't have them yet but had a few moments when I wish I had.
She has a very good weather helm (if you panic and let go of everything she readily turns into the wind on her own. As a pulling boat (she rows easily and again is fast) her capacity is probably four people, but three comfortably; for sailing though there is realy only room for one crew mwmber plus the skipper. Her low freeboard alows her to scoop water easily but I have yet to capsize after about 40 hours of sailing (which triples my life time total)
I'm an experienced wood worker who learns best from hindsite and would build her again but perhaps a little bigger. The fact she's double ended is missleading in available interior space; the area behind the skipper is useless for a passenger, as is the area in front of the mast. But she is a fun and livly sailer. She has no floatation chambers but these would be easy to build into the afore mentioned areas (which I will consider after I discover how she/we recover after capsizing). Two of her frames are "wrangs"; if you build her go out into the woods and find a couple of natural "elbows" for these; or laminate them, as per these are inherently weak due to almost end grain (apx 45 degrees) gluing. They havn't given me trouble yet but I can see it coming as there is a small crack in each one on the glue line. If you like, do a "Carina" search and you will see my rendition of this beautiful Joel White design.
Go for it; she'll make ya proud

[ 08-15-2002, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: gert ]

[gert]

I agree with BB on the size thing but not the sailing bit; if this design was not intended for sailing what's with all the Ian Ougtreg (sp?) boats? They are all variations of feirings as is the Shearwater. I built the Shearwater cause the "viking" boat look apealed to me, due in part to my heritage; I was a bit surprised/disapointed at her interior capacity but at least I am now only responsible for one other life while I am out, and sailing alone suits me too. There is also I suspect a direct relation between a boats size and the number of times she gets out. On the other hand a "week ender" would be kinda nice...
So many boats, so little time.
I'm hooked and luvin it.

[Ben Fuller]

Joel did an enlarged Shearwater for rowing with two (and two kids) and sailing with a larger party. It was his real last design. A great boat. He gave her a narrow flat bottom like a dory to make her easier to take the mud. The basic Shearwater, which I have used alot teaching over at WoodenBoat, works well with two adults but runs out of freeboard fast after that. And she is short for rowing with two. Ian's designs and the traditional faerings all have a bit more freeboard than the Shearwater as does my Dias design Harrier.

[Kristian]

The Shearwater is great for sailing. I had just finished my first two levels in sailing school when we started sailing the Shearwater. It was very interesting adapting sailing technique from a Euro 420 to the Shearwater. Every boat has their own personality.

People say that she is "tippy". Well she is sort of but not really. She tips, but wants to be be upright. She doesn't want to capsize readily. The response in balance is remarkable. I enjoy hiking a boat. It's a thrill to be leaning out and getting sprayed while going as fast as possible. The shearwater is very forgiving in this.

A couple of points in the design: 1) If you use a gooseneck for the boom, don't attach the mast to the boat, let it rotate freely. There may be times when a good gust can blow the sail too far around.
2) Make sure the centreboard is heavy enough to stay down while sailing. Plywood whth a lead plug may not be enough. And she drifts very easily while under sail with no centreboard.

And a tip I learned about tacking: get up some speed and sail through the tack. A major difference from the 420 with jib that I learned on.

[HiramCarter]

Thanks, everyone, for responding to my original question. I guess I'm wondering now, though, whether Shearwater would meet my needs. Does anyone have any suggestions or alternatives, based upon my original question, that I should look at? Keeping in mind:

1. 17-18 feet LOA,
2. 1 + 2 or 3 people,
3. Trailerable/beachable,
4. Speed, yes, but comfort first,
5. Double-ender, if possible, but will sacrifice
for the above 4.

Thanks, HiramCarter

[Garrett Lowell]

Hiram, there are literally hundreds of designs in your criteria field.
Personally, I like Joel White's designs, and I'll probably be building his boats for some time. But perhaps you should check out the Core Sound 17 by B and B Yachts.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm

[Buddy Sharpton]

Oh Hiram. When you say weekender, are you thinking about spending the night aboard in sleeping bags on the cockpit sole and under a tarp slung over the boom- or being able to take camp gear and a tent out to that island?
I'm the first guy to say a smaller boat will get built sooner, be used more often, and last longer cause its more practical to maintain, but...
it sounds like a Shearwater is too small for you and two others.
If you like Joel White's work, I have a 15 foot MarshCat that's grand for just this sort of thing but at 7 foot beam and say 1100 pounds- and cold molded at that-this is in no way as fast a build as a glued lap plywood boat, and not double ended.
Joel WHite' Fox Island is a honey of a double ender, fine for 3 even 4 folks daysailing. But its over 20 feet and not real laid out for sleeping aboard
Tha Core Sound boats are very good to look into- 15 and 17 would fit the bill.But not double ended,
How about Ian Outreds double ender's, or Paul Gartsides work- he's got an 18 I think that double ended with a small two up cabin.
Bill Gardens 18 foot Eel is gorgeous and seems to be well worth the build time. It can be strip planked or cold molded.
Heresy perhaps, but if you could find a 'glass Sea Pearl 21 to borrow, you'd get a good idea what size double ender it really takes to comfortably daysail 3 and 4 people. Its about a 6 foot something beam I think and 650 pounds. A fun and satisfying boat though.

[Ben Fuller]

Look at the stretched Shearwater by Joel White; she is 18 feet. Harrier by Tony Dias is 17'6" and there are a couple of Ian Oughtred designs that come in about 17'.

[Wiley Baggins]

Hiram,

you may want to consider Atkin's VALGERDA. Trailerable, double-ended, and substantial. I have not found an image on the web, but the first link is to Atkin&Co. website (no illustrations) and the second is to the page of a guy who built one (again, no illustrations, but perhaps you could e-mail him). Last, is a link to Boat Design Quarterly (BDQ) which featured VALGERDA in issue No. 2 and Ben Fuller's Dias HARRIER in a later (No. 21) issue (no illustrations at this site either). I will do an edit later with some of the boats particulars. It is much more substantial than SHEARWATER, but in the same vein.

Atkin&Co. (http://www.by-the-sea.com/atkin&co/)

VALGERDA builder (http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/builders/russel_list.htm)

BDQ (http://www.woodenboat.com/bdq.htm)

[EDIT]

VALGERDA

loa-18'7"
lwl-15'9"
beam-5'8"
draft-1'7"
SA-72 sq. ft.(standing lug)
Weight-550lbs

Excerpts from the BDQ article...

"...We're told that these double-enders enjoy a reputation for hard work and possess rough-water capability comparable to our peapods and Sea Bright Skiffs."

"...the Atkins specified 1/4" plywood for the hull of his boat. John's drawings indicate that lapstrake construction gave way to multiple chines."

"A long time ago, I had the pleasure of rowing a boat built to these plans. Strong effort was required to get her moving, but she consumed little power underway. Between strokes, Valgerda's considerable momentum could have carried her into the middle of next week. She loved rough water and had sense enough to mush through small waves and ride over the big ones. Rowing this boat was pure joy-or would have been if the builder hadn't installed a centerboard trunk."

Notes...

1. The boat does not have a centerboard in the original drawings.
2. The boat does have a substantial skeg/keel with a small chunk of ballast (weight not shown on the drawing that I have).

[ 08-16-2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

[Meerkat]

Selway-Fisher offers some interesting double ended designs. A couple that meet your criteria are the Medway Doble 16 and the Kari 2 Faering. (If you like the Kari 2, don't go look at the Kari 3 in a different section :cool: ). There is also a trio of canoe yawls <sigh>.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/DoubleEs.htm

[ 08-16-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

Valgerda's profile and keel are very similar to this drawing. There is a 106 lb. block of lead set into the bottom of her keel about where the main mast steps on this drawing. Ignore the rig, I was playing around with stretching Valgerda to 22' and trying to combine three of my passions - schooners, lugsails and Norwegian boats.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pf6322f33fc142253b2d7e4aea5e758c8/fd64b58c.jpg

[ 08-17-2002, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Tomcat]

Playing around at Wooden Boat convinced me that if i wanted to give space to a nice looking boat about 16' long for rowing around, I would build the Glouchester Gull and not the Shearwater. I went there with the Shearwater at the top of my list of boats, and came away feeling it didn't row nearly as well as the GLG. Same with the Nutshell vs various bolger tenders.

I don't think this is an apples to oranges comparison, though the boats are not all that simmilar, and the "look" very different. The rowing performance of the GLG is based on a beam less than that of a canoe, and closing in on some sea kayaks. None the less when seated, you feel vary secure and all that flair is imensely seaworthy.

If you want to carry more people or row a double ender, version are available.