Adirondack Guideboat

[DougC]

Anyone build one of these? and what plans and construction method did you use? They are beautiful boats and have some of the best qualities of a canoe, scull and skiff. I'm trying to figure out what my next project will be. I want it to be light enough to cartop and stable enough for me and my dog. Have considered lapstrake canoes (MacGregor or Wee Rob) and recreational sculls. The guideboat might have it all. Also we like to go to the Adirondacks.
I haven't seen a construction method that appeals to me. The traditional way of building them involves very specialized wood (spruce roots and thin cedar). The "smooth lapstrake" planking seems almost impossibly demanding for a beginner. I know they can be made using cedar strips (and a lot of epoxy). But that doesn't appeal to me. I'm wondering about using glued lap construction over laminated frames. Any thoughts on this?
Doug

[J. Dillon]

DougC,

Check out http://www.adirondackmuseum.org/.

The last time I was there was all the info about the guide boat you might need. In the summer they have the "no octane regatta" in which you'll see plenty of the guide boats in action. They even let you take one out for a row.

JD

[JimConlin]

Greg Sowers of Canaan, NY makes some very lovely Adirondack Guideboats in Cedar strip composite.
He's been at the last few Mystic Seaport small craft weekends.
I'd guess that there's not much more than a gallon of epoxy in one.

[Dick Millet]

I built one this past spring/summer, see http://www.albany.net/~rmillet/guideboat.html for pictures. I used strip planking on laminated spruce frames and covered the outside with 4 oz. fiberglass. In retrospect I think the fiberglass was overkill. A good waterproof glue between the strips would have sufficed, the joints were plenty tight.

I think glued lap would also be a good method either planed down to a smooth skin or left as lapstrake. The old master (John Buyce) from my hometown (Speculator, NY) built all of his boats as lapstrake but otherwise in the same manner as other guideboats.

I can't rave enough about the boat style. It's wider and more stable than a canoe, faster by orders of magnitude and IMHO much prettier. Lots harder to build though. Let me know if you want any details, building tips, techniques etc.

Dick

[doorstop]

Dick, that is one drop dead gorgeous boat mate, Congratulations!

[Bruce Taylor]

Beautiful boat, Dick.

[Donn]

Gorgeous boat, Dick...needs a lovely young woman in a summer dress and a parasol in that stern seat.

[Omay Elphick]

Doug,

As I mentioned in the other string, I used the drawings availible from New Found Boatworks in conjuction with K. Durants book. There really is not much epoxy used in cedar strip constuction. I used yellow carpenters glue to glue the strips togater, which is about half the total boat building time. After fairing, four total days of epoxy/fiberglass sheathing inside and out. After that there is the fitting of the deck, outwale and seats. As I mentioned, if I had to do it again, I would also add two ribs at the center stations and an inwale.

After finishing the guideboat in upstate NY, I moved to Boulder, CO where I met a Saranac Lake transplant who was building a guideboat here in CO. He's a cabinet maker and was commenting on how difficult the traditional lapped planks were. Its not something I'd tackle without haveing a mentor to demonstrate. As with many things. It is one thing to read about it and look at pictures, but something completely different to execute with out an experienced mentor.

My boat is made of recycled white cedar off-cuts from New Found Boatworks and recycled cypress from old pickle barrels. The gunwales and deck framing are ash and the seats are cherry recycled from some old cabinet doors.

I say the New Found Boatworks prototype at last summers woodenboat show. The addition of two ribs in the center and an inwale make a very very stiff boat.

Make an Adirondack Guide boat. Regardless of construction method, you will not be disappointed. The boat is light (mine is 60lbs), very fast with one person and as stable as a barge when loaded.

Omay
Boulder, CO

[garland reese]

Doug,

Selway Fisher has a design that is based on the Adirondak Guideboat. The drawing does not look to have the same stem profile as the Adirondak gudeboats to me. But the construction methods of this boat are an interesting blend of traditional and modern, in that it uses either ply (yuk) or laminated ribs with glued-ply strakes for the topsides.

www.selway-fisher.com (http://www.selway-fisher.com)

[Michel JAN]

Dick,
Outstanding job. Could you tell me the span btw the roarlocks, the inbound and outbound lengths of your oars.From the pictures, they don't overlap. Thanks
Michel

[Dick Millet]

Michel,

41", 24" and 72" respectively. That picture caught me holding the oars at just the right angle so they don't look like they overlap. Actually they overlap a little more than the length of the grip.

Here's a picture of one of my boys demonstrating.

http://www.albany.net/~rmillet/Louis.jpg

Dick

[ 11-03-2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Dick Millet ]

[DougC]

I've seen the boats at the Adirondack museum, also a nice one at Mystic. Great design and it looks like there are a few different construction approaches. They range from the traditional -- wooden frames (natural or laminated) with smooth lapstrake planking -- to a cedar strip with epoxy and fiberglass method. In between there is the option of using laminated frames with epoxied cedar strip construction. I take it that cedar strip with fiberglass needs a minimum of frames (like a cedar strip canoe or kayak), and cedar strip with the full set of frames doesn't need fiberglass. is this correct? Is bead and cove the way to go in cedar stripping a guideboat? Nick Schade mentions that B&C doesn't work well when there are a lot of hollows to the hull. Also how much material (linear feet does it take to build one?

Dick, really beautiful boat and great pics of it in its natural habitat. thanks for the inspiration.

[ 11-03-2002, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: DougC ]

[NormMessinger]

Rich cited this URL: http:// syllabus.syr.edu/RET/MJOLIVET/GUIDEBOAT_files/frame.htm

All I get is a black screen with some yellow lines. Tried three different browsers. Is it just me or what?

[Dick Millet]

Norm you need a frames capable browser for that link and I don't know what if any addins. Also patience, the pictures take a long time to load. You might also try this link for lots of detail information on strip building http://michneboat.com.

DougC, you've got it pretty much in a nutshell. The full strippers have the lines but without the ribs they're just "missing" a big part of the look. I did bead and cove my strips and the shape of the boat made stripping it up a lot easier than a canoe. Lots tighter than my canoes too. In fact since I knew I was going to glass the outside I didn't even glue the strips together.

I would say that you could probably do away with every other set of frames on my boat to save weight as long as you were going to glass the outside. That would still retain the authentic look but cut the build time (and materials) substantially.

As for materials, I didn't keep very good track (tore it apart and put it back together twice, sue me, I'm a perfectionist, so I wasted a couple boards worth) but you need at least:

1. 1 - Boat length -18" x 10" x 1" bottom board. Nominal thickness can be 1/2" to 3/4" inch. I used clear pine.
2. 3 - 1" x 8" OR 2 1" x 12" x boat length +12" for the strips. I think it worked out to 28 strips per side. That leaves very little for waste. Assumes no scarfing, full length strips.
I used WRC but you could use White Cedar, Pine etc.
3. 2 - 5/4 x 1 1/4" x boat length +12" for gunwales. Again assuming full length boards. Final dimensions in the center are 7/8" x 1 1/16".
Cherry or Ash here.
4. You'll need about 3 2" x 8" x 10' clear spruce boards, more if you can't find clear stock.
I spent several hours picking through the framing stock at HD.
5. Deck and seat wood. I used a single 6' 5/4 x 12" Walnut board to make the outside stems and bookmatch both decks. (It was on sale at 4.50 a board foot on the day I went looking for deck material). The seats came from leftover Cherry I had laying around the shop.
6. Yoke and oars. I made the yoke from a 4' 16/4 x 8" basswood block. The oars are from two 8/4 x 8' basswood boards, although you should be able to make them from a single 12' 2 x 6. Soft Maple is traditional as is Spruce.

Probably way more than you wanted to know, but what can I say, I like guideboats.

Dick

[john welsford]

Dick, I couldn't, I absolutely admire your effort, just lovely to contemplate but the hours!
I am an impatient type and need the fastest way from the idea on my head, onto paper and throught the workshop and into the water. Just launched my HuffBoat yesterday, ( I guess I'll have to tell the story about the mname sometime but am off to work in a minute)
I built her in 3/16 epoxy glued ply lapstrake, 7 planks a side, sawn ply frames, solid wooden ladder gunwale , carbon shafted oars with laminated blades and housepaint inside and out. Weighs 85 lbs complete with oars, 16ft 8in x 3ft 8in . At 22 strokes a minute she is travelling about 25 ft per stroke, I'll borrow a GPS in a couple of weeks to see what that really equates to in speed but it feels reasonably quick.
The shape is based upon a Thames Wherry with the sections tweaked to reduce pitching when rowing in open water.
Pity we cant get together to compare the two vastly different approaches to a similar goal.

Congratulations. JohnW

Originally posted by Dick Millet:
Norm you need a frames capable browser for that link and I don't know what if any addins. Also patience, the pictures take a long time to load. You might also try this link for lots of detail information on strip building http://michneboat.com.

DougC, you've got it pretty much in a nutshell. The full strippers have the lines but without the ribs they're just "missing" a big part of the look. I did bead and cove my strips and the shape of the boat made stripping it up a lot easier than a canoe. Lots tighter than my canoes too. In fact since I knew I was going to glass the outside I didn't even glue the strips together.

I would say that you could probably do away with every other set of frames on my boat to save weight as long as you were going to glass the outside. That would still retain the authentic look but cut the build time (and materials) substantially.

As for materials, I didn't keep very good track (tore it apart and put it back together twice, sue me, I'm a perfectionist, so I wasted a couple boards worth) but you need at least:

1. 1 - Boat length -18" x 10" x 1" bottom board. Nominal thickness can be 1/2" to 3/4" inch. I used clear pine.
2. 3 - 1" x 8" OR 2 1" x 12" x boat length +12" for the strips. I think it worked out to 28 strips per side. That leaves very little for waste. Assumes no scarfing, full length strips.
I used WRC but you could use White Cedar, Pine etc.
3. 2 - 5/4 x 1 1/4" x boat length +12" for gunwales. Again assuming full length boards. Final dimensions in the center are 7/8" x 1 1/16".
Cherry or Ash here.
4. You'll need about 3 2" x 8" x 10' clear spruce boards, more if you can't find clear stock.
I spent several hours picking through the framing stock at HD.
5. Deck and seat wood. I used a single 6' 5/4 x 12" Walnut board to make the outside stems and bookmatch both decks. (It was on sale at 4.50 a board foot on the day I went looking for deck material). The seats came from leftover Cherry I had laying around the shop.
6. Yoke and oars. I made the yoke from a 4' 16/4 x 8" basswood block. The oars are from two 8/4 x 8' basswood boards, although you should be able to make them from a single 12' 2 x 6. Soft Maple is traditional as is Spruce.

Probably way more than you wanted to know, but what can I say, I like guideboats.

Dick

[Dick Millet]

True John, it was a lot of hours (about 300 is my best guess) but as they say, it's not the destination but the journey. I really enjoy rowing it and fishing from it but I absolutely loved building it.

I'm seriously considering building another one. Now that all the CAD work and building jigs are done I figure I could probably rip one off in about half the time. Could always sell it. I passed up the opportunity to sell this one the day I launched it for a rather obscene (to me) amount of money. I've also been considering a small sailboat. Gotta do something, now that winter's here I'm getting bored just sitting around.

Dick

[DougC]

Dick, no such thing as "too much detail." Thanks for the additional info. 300 hours sounds about right -- given the results.
Doug

[ 11-07-2002, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: DougC ]

[JJDyn0mite]

That's an amazing boat, dick. I'm in the planning stages of a guide-boat right now, reading the durant book and sketching patterns of the ribs, stem, and bottom board. Right now I'm debating whether to put in the extra time to do ribs or to just to strip/epoxy construction with two middle ribs like the newfound boatworks example. Fully ribbed just looks so nice though, I just don't know that I will have the time.

Anyway, if anyone has any more suggestions or resources to share, please do. I'm definitely sold on the boat, I just need to figure out how to get it done.

Thanks,
JJ

[garyspear]

Dick,

Fantastic work. I have spent about 60 hours drafting out a scale guideboat form the offsets in the Durannt book and I am still not finished. It has been a little frustrating. I think cad would be a great way to go. I am a total newbie however. Any advice on how to get started? and will a copy of turbo cad 3d form compusa get the job done?
Your site is a true inspiration and Your guideboat is beautiful. It is How I hope my "building journey" will end up.