Oughtred's Wee Rob or MacGregor canoes

[Joe Dupere]

Has anybody out there in forum land built either or both of these? SWMBO grew up with canoes and though I've converted her to sailing, we do have the Penobscot River right in the front yard. I'd like to surprise her with a canoe. Assuming of course, I can find a place to build it where she won't see it.

Does anybody have any experience building these? I've done a web search on both, and I'm really looking for a picture of one with someone sitting in it, to get an idea of the proportions.

Thanks, Joe

[ken mcclure]

www.odoba.net (http://www.odoba.net) has some links, but I don't know if there's any pics with people in 'em. In some cases, you can contact the builders for some more direct info.

[Jack C]

You've got a bigger problem. When you sneak off to work on the canoe, your SWMBO will start to think you've got a mistress...

...Which in a way you would, of course...just made of wood, nails, and epoxy...

Good luck.

Jack

[NormMessinger]

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1229514&a=13668655&p=53282411&Sequence=0

[ken mcclure]

Don't let that picture fool you. Norm built the deep draft version. He's actually standing in that picture. On his wife's shoulders.

[Joe Dupere]

Norm, that's the MacGregor, right? And from what I can tell from the study plans in Thirty Wooden Boats, you sit in these like a kayak, and not up on a seat or thwart like a typical North American canoe. Is that correct?

What does the finished weight come out to. The book says around 40 pounds, is that about right? How does it handle? SWMBO is very petite, but is very experienced with canoes, so I think she could deal with it.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Dupere (edited 11-29-2001).]

[NormMessinger]

Sheesh, I give you the equivalent of a thousand words and still ya want more.

Nope, it aint the deep draft version. Those are my knees you see forward. Yes, one sits on the "floor" boards, not up on a seat as with a canoe. And, danged if I didn't put the toggle that holds the boards down right where my coccyx wants to be. Except for that, it is not uncomfortable. The adjustable back rest moves fore and aft to suit the weight of the paddler. With two aboard the back rest moves to the forward position and the rear of the cockpit supports the person in back. Phyllis only looks short cause I'm 5'17" but we do fine together in the boat.

I have not learned to sail it with confidence but it paddles just great. It seems fast and moves easily. I've had it out in some fair sized small lake waves and it handles them just fine.

I've never weighed it. The first MacGregor was made with fir plywood (done even think about it) so it is relatively heavy. In my younger days I could pick it up turn it over my head and set in to top the truck. Wouldn't even try that now but the ligher okoume one surely weighs >60 lbs. Both are decked.

I don't think a petite woman would have any trouble at all handling one in the water. She and I would need help on land. It aint heavy, just awkward.

Go to my www.photopoint.com (http://www.photopoint.com) albums, enter my email address ngmessinger@home.com and you'll find a few more pictures of our MacGregors.

The danger is giving your wife one as a present is that she may come to love it more than you.

What else?

--Norm

[Rob M]

Like most of Oughtred's designs, it is a real nice looking boat. And it looks like a wonderful place to use it.

Looking at the picture, I find myself wondering; Just what makes this a canoe and not a kayak? It looks to be kind of in-between what I think of as each type.

Rob

[ken mcclure]

Hmm. What would you call that - a kayoo? a coonack?

[htom]

I'd describe it as a decked canoe, as opposed to an open canoe.

Or maybe an "open kayak", but to me, kayak means fully and completely decked, with only punctures for occupants.

[NormMessinger]

It has much too much freeboard, beam and fat ends to be even close to a kayak shape. Decked Canoe.

--Norm

[Rob H]

According to Bart Hauthaway, venerable guru of kayakdom, if it isn't meant to roll, it's a canoe.
I bought a set of plans for Macgregor, but haven't progressed beyond that stage yet.
Still deciding which length to build.

Norm, is your boat yawl-rigged? How does she sail? Is that the 15 footer?

[NormMessinger]

Well, it's the longer of the versions Iain specifies. Or was supposed to be. Can't remember, 17'? I think I messed (no pun intneded) up and made it something between 15 and 17. I put in the steps and partners for the yawl rig but have never rigged same. Can't figure out how to do so and can't handle one sail, let alone two. Maybe I'll get Todd's book for Christmas (though I've announced that I have enough underware and books) in which case maybe I can figure it out.

One thing I found out was that it takes proper coordination to shift the leeboard. Get it over a little late and... well, it's no kayak, but it will tip over. Took a while to figure out how to get back in too.

--Norm

[Todd Bradshaw]

The definitions of "canoe" and "kayak" have been blurry for better than a hundred years and trying to figure it out will just give you a headache. Even Bart Hauthaway's is suspect as I have rolled a decked whitewater canoe back in the days when I was younger, less-bouyant and more flexible. Would that make it a kayak? If so, what would that make boats that really are kayaks?

Official racing designations are pretty strict, but touring canoes and kayaks can be almost any shape and can be called whatever the designer thinks fits best. For a long time, the Brits didn't have open canoes, they had kayaks - but they didn't call them kayaks, they called them canoes - but they really were kayaks - I don't think they even had any boats that they called kayaks - maybe that word had already been assigned to some sort of pastry or something....

Norm, buy the book, I need the money. I don't know if you'll get anything out of it - but I will. I can't find my MacGregor plan but couldn't you rig it with a fixed leeboard on one side? There are plenty of canoes bigger than that one sailing with only one leeboard. Switching it sounds like a pain.

[Steve Lansdowne]

Warning, if you buy Todd's book you'll be so fascinated with it that you'll not get anything else done until you spend many wonderful hours going through it!!

[Rob H]

I've been sort of put off by the leeboard idea, too. How about drawing in an off-centerboard, that could hang in a case along the inside of the cockpit coaming, so it wouldn't be an obstruction, but wouldn't be an eyesore or a hassle when tacking, either.

[Jim M]

I built a MacGregor 15'6" and have sailed it for about five years now, yawl only.

A cam cleat for the mizzen sheet is good, but where exactly to put it is tough. Somewhere you can reach it. From tack to tack (i.e. upwind) generally I don't touch it. It needs to be sheeted in a little less than the main, but it's not critical. It's flat as a pancake.

Centerboard is bad. How would you go forward to untangle the halyard or whatever? A fixed leeboard bracket would be nice, but would require beefing up the sides to take the load (both sides) -- more weight, and this thing is already plenty heavy with decks and bulkheads. Changing the leeboard from tack to tack is a drag, and brings water into the boat.

On the up side, this boat seldom fails to draw very positive comment from onlookers, whether boat people or not.

[Rob H]

Jim,
About the centerboard---I'm wondering how it would work if you were to offset the centerboard case to one side,so that it is fastened to the cockpit coaming and exits through the planking at about the turn of the bilge. I bet it would still have plenty of bite in the water, while still leaving the cockpit completely clear.
Of course it wouldn't be symmetrical, but it also wouldn't be as ugly as a leeboard (to my eye, anyway!)
BTW: Have you weighed your boat? Is it too heavy for singlehanded cartopping?

[Crip]

Bit late maybe, but here's a link to a photo journal that I put together when I built my MacGregor.

Click here. (http://www.moorey.net/crip/toplevel/boatpages/McGregorpages/McGregor.html)

Great boats by the way, if a little tender.

Crip (http://crip.moorey.net/toplevel/boats.html)

[This message has been edited by Crip (edited 01-28-2002).]

[Rob H]

WOW! Great job, Crip, on both the boats and the photo journal!
Looks like you built the boat at the original 13' length.
Building two boats together with a buddy can be a great way to do it. You learn more through doing everything twice, and it helps keep your enthusiasm up through the annoying spots. I did that eight years ago with a friend from work. We built a pair of sea kayaks which we both still use regularly.
Wish WE had taken photos!

[LaMess]

One method for getting back in: Reinsert head into atmosphere and blow water from nose. Find life jacket and untangle it from the mainsheet. Don said lifejacket. Unstep mast and tuck the sail and stuff out of the way. Insert paddle blade into straps of floatation cushion. Sit in canoe on your side and use paddle and cushion to lever yourself upright. Arrange mast and sail inboard. Remove shoe and bail until gronicles are above waterline - assuming they are installed. Roll back out and dive for missing wallet. Repeat as necessary

[NormMessinger]

Yup! Those were the exact steps. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[Joe Dupere]

Norm and Crip, thanks for the pictures. I'll probably go with the MacGregor. I think I can just get a 13'7 in the garage when it's done. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Joe

[Jim M]

>>About the centerboard---I'm wondering how it would work if you were to offset the centerboard case to one side,so that it is fastened to the cockpit coaming and exits through the planking at about the turn of the bilge. I bet it would still have plenty of bite in the water, while still leaving the cockpit completely clear.<<

It would work fine sailing wise -- less off-center than a leeboard -- and the top of the case could be fastened to the side decks. I guess you could make some curved longs for the bottom. But all this, including a weighted centerboard, would seriously unbalance the canoe; the lighter the canoe, the more the imbalance.

I haven't weighed my boat but I'm guessing about 60 lbs. I have a double layer of 6 oz glass spanning the garboards, which is unnecessary. But decks are necessary, especially side decks.

Putting in on the car is OK except after a long day when your arms and back are tired.

[LaMess]

OK Nessmuk weighed only ~105lbs but he took the Sairy Gamp (9' with a 26" beam and 6' deep) on a wilderness adventure through the Adirondacks. As Rushton said: "It is wonderful how few pounds of cedar, rightly modeled and properly put together, it takes to float a man."

30+ lbs is WAY too heavy for a double paddle canoe meant for poking about in ponds, streams, rivers, lakes and bays. It is, though, very light for a bone in your teeth spray in your face sailboat. What do you want to give The Wife a sailboat or a canoe?

The Macregor is a sailing canoe that you can paddle. See Tom Hill's Ultralight Boat Building for philosophy and building instructions for a poking around canoe. The cover picture sez a lot. If she can carry it easily she will use it alot. If picking it up is work it will live mostly in the garage.

Yo NGMESS do you have in picfures of your Wee Lassie?

[This message has been edited by LAMESS (edited 12-03-2001).]

[NormMessinger]

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1229514&a=9072072&p=48584118&Sequence=0

[Rob H]

Gee, one of my favorite boats is a 30# decked canoe that I take out on ponds, lakes, rivers and bays. Pound for pound, it's the most efficient bass boat I've ever seen. Granted, I never portage it more than 100 yards, but I routinely carry it with one hand,taking the paddle and a tote bag in the other.
There have been plenty of times that I've taken that boat out on a glassy calm morning to fish, and come home over a brisk chop that would have swamped me easily in a 15# open hull. I don't begrudge the few extra pounds the decking adds.
Then again, I weigh a *bit* more than 105#!

On the issue of the off center weight of the centerboard, I'll bet my tote bag full of necessary stuff (water bottle, sandwiches, sunblock, etc) would make an effective counterweight!

[LongJohn]

On the difference between canoes and kayaks ....
I think that in paddling competitions the difference is defined in terms of equipment and posture: If the paddle has one blade and the paddler is kneeling or sitting on an elevated seat - then it's a canoe. If the paddle has 2 blades and the paddler is sitting on or near the bottom of the hull - then it's a kayak. You can paddle a "canoe" with a 2-bladed paddle without too much trouble, but it's pretty awkward to use a single blade while sitting on the floor. Of course, you can always kneel in a "kayak" and use a single-bladed paddle....
All this leads me to wonder, Joe, if she "grew up with canoes" whether she'd be comfortable with a sit-on-the-floor type of boat. I also grew up with canoes and definitely prefer a single-blade paddle. If she's also of the single-blade persuasion, perhaps something along the lines of Jerry Stelmok's Will-o-Whisp <http://islandfalls.wcha.org/pleasure/pleasure.html> or Doug Ingram's Red Fox <http://www.wilds.mb.ca/redriver/rrcpcsol.html#redfox%20tag> would be more appropriate?
My $0.02

- John

[JimBennett]

Went out and weighed my MacGregor today. Approximately 75lbs with rudder,lee board, and floorboards. It's the 13'6" version except it came out 12'7" due to a slight mistake that we won't discuss. Ocoume with mahogony keel, gunwales, ash tiller. It is also decked. Too much for me to cartop alone. I was hoping for the 40lb version but it didn't turn out that way.

I've done a reasonable amount of both canoe and kayak paddling and found Shortmac(final name to be chosen from female characters in "Comedy of Errors") to be acceptable although you will want a longer double blade because of the relatively high freeboard.

I built it for sailing though and I wanted the mizzen rig and thats why I chose MacGregor. After a couple of years I am getting the hang of it I think (didn't tip over this year, but mainly sailed with a reef). Have had two people in it, but they need to be good friends. The extra ballast made it much more stable as long as we coordinated our movement.

I think you will enjoy building and SWMBO sailing/paddling

[Rob H]

I don't trust people's guesses regarding boat weights. I had a light dory that I always figured was an 80lb boat. I hauled it around on top of my old pickup truck and singlehanded it OK, using a little 2-wheel dolly-cart.
Finally one day I got out the bathroom scale and balanced the dory on it. 112lbs! Hah!

Anyway, I'm leaning toward the 15' 8" size MacGregor. I don't mind using a 2-wheeler to get it down to the water, but I want it to be a one-man job.

[LaMess]

Rob H - What's the pedigree of your bass boat? Sounds like fun. I was thinking of a petite woman. Having known so few I not sure what one of them could handle. Would 30-40 lbs would be OK?. The point was just that it shouldn't be a terrible pain to transport.

LongJohn - my first and most extensive boating was with a single paddle but I am really curios about why you like 'em better.

Lynn

[Rob H]

Actually I have 3 of them, none made of wood. The first one is a 10 1/2 ft Rob Roy canoe that Bart Hauthaway built for my wife about 25 years ago. Good fishing platform, but a bit tubby for paddling. The other 2 are also 10 1/2 ft hulls that Platt Monfort, the geodesic boat guy in Maine, was selling as raw hulls back in the 70's. I finished one of them out as an open boat and decked the other one. This decked one is my favorite. I think the shape is a rehash of Rushton's Wee Lassie, but I wouldn't bet money on that. I did a fairly crude job of the fitting out, and the boat has seen some rough service over the years, but I still love it! It goes along pretty well for such a short length, and handles powerboat wakes with perfect aplomb.
If I were starting from scratch, I might go with either Tom Hill's approach or Mac McCarthy's strip canoe, stretched out to 12 ft and decked to leave a large cockpit.

[LongJohn]

Lamess -
My preference is probably mostly habit and familiarity. I've paddled many thousands of miles in open canoes with single paddles and maybe only ten or twenty with a double paddle. I can pretty much make a canoe do whatever I want it to do with a single paddle and from one side of the boat. So I'm biased....
I guess that the advantages I see are that kneeling with a single paddle allows you to put your whole body into it - an advantage both in terms of power and in terms of all-day endurance; kneeling or sitting on a seat gives you a higher vantage point and allows you to reach out farther for a more stable brace and more powerful draw; you're not confined to sitting on the floor, but can kneel, sit, stand or sprawl as mood and conditions suggest; single paddles are a more convenient size and will fit in the car and hang vertically in the basement. But, I guess the main thing is that it's kind of second nature for me and I love the feel and the subtle interaction of water/boat/paddle and the ability to use a tool with such finesse.
Plus, you know what they say: half the paddle - twice the paddler, or "what's that, a training paddle?" http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

- John

Oh yeah, and you don't get water dripping into your armpits with a single paddle.

[This message has been edited by LongJohn (edited 12-07-2001).]

[Tom Dugan]

LJ,

Sounds about like we have similar backgrounds. I started many years ago in single-bladed paddling, and have taught it now for many years. What I've noticed since first building my MacGregor knockoff (last year) is that the rounder hull shape favors sitting down. It's a real bi**h to paddle my 12 footer while kneeling, but I can zip along fine with the double-bladed paddle.

About the water-in-the-armpit thing: keep the shaft as horizontal as possible. You don't need or want the blade vertical, as would be the case when single-paddling. That's what has worked for me.

-T

[jlwags]

Well I am brand-spakin' new to this board and to boat building. I got the bug this summer after an unexpected trip to the Adirondak Museum in NY. Right after my wife got the bug for a solo canoe like Nesmuk's.

I have just finished the strongback for Oughtred's Wee Rob, which I will be building at the 13'7" length for my wife. I know the 12' would have been better on land, we weren't too sure about the capacity of the 12', and figured the 13'7 would give a little more capacity.

I am not exatly heartened by the fact I can't find anyone on the web who has chosen the WeeRob over the MacGregor.

Since this is my first stab at a boat of any kind, I am looking forward to learning (read ready to make a lot of mistakes) and enjoying the experience (hoping I know when to take a coffee break).

And I am glad I found this forum, as I may be asking questions later.

Thanks, John Wagner
"A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."
Grace Murray Hopper

[ken mcclure]

Welcome to the nuthouse, jl.

Check www.alistego.com (http://www.alistego.com)

Dale built a Wee Rob and could be a good source of info and support for you.

We'd love to see pictures. Our collective emotional development stopped at about 7 years of age, so we need pictures to keep us interested. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/biggrin.gif

[NormMessinger]

Welcome, JL.

The picture of the Wee Lassie I posted above was taken at Gibbs lake, just south of you. It was built using the technology I learned from building two MacGregors on the lines of the Wee Lassie purchased from the Adarondak Museum. It is 10' LOA and a bit small for me at >200++, which is to say most of the top strake is above water. Based on that the 12' Wee Rob might have been adequate but you the 13' version is more conservitive for sure. Good luck to you.

--Norm

[skuthorp]

I have a McGregor, fitted as a canoe yawl. I picked her because most of my sailing will be done in shallow tidal water, and she's about the weight limit for a single handling car-topper. The canoe as per the drawings has a large 'cockpit' which I have modified somewhat, but it makes for a dry boat and provides 2 very large watertight/waterproof compartments for gear. I've used an offset rudder as per 'Tropic Bird' (W.B. Dec 2001) in preference to the design supplied as I considered it stronger and certainly more convenient than a tiller. She's only 85cm wide and very quick under oars as well. I also made two different profile leeboards in case of VERY shallow water (about 9 inches). I am used to a flat water K1, so I find her very stable and can paddle her happily sitting on the back deck. I' ve built a removable sliding seat for rowing and find her very quick and a good sea boat. If I think of anything else I'll post it in a week or two, I'm going on a sailing holiday in her!

[Sailman58]

Those of us enduring the northern hemisphere winter are green with envy! Please post pictures of your McGregor when you get back.

Ron

[Rob H]

I'm glad this topic resurfaced.
I've just roughed out the molds for the MacGregor, 15' 8" length. I may clean them up today, but this morning dawned bright and clear on 4" of fluffy new snow, so I may go out cross-country skiing instead.

I've decided to drop the off-centerboard idea and stick with the leeboard. It's lighter and simpler.

[Joe Dupere]

I'm kind of surprised this thread is still kicking around, but it's been interesting.

I finally decided on the MacGregor instead of a 'regular' canoe for SWMBO based on her input. I have a copy of Forty Wooden Boats. One evening I was looking through it at some of Oughtred's larger designs. She really liked the lapstrake hull of the Grey Seal, so we were looking at the other Oughtred designs in the book. I was paging backwards towards the Wee Rob and the MacGregor in the front of the book. She was really taken with the MacGregor. So, I ordered the plans for about a week or so ago and they came in last week. I also bought Oughtred's lapstrake plywood boatbuilding book. It is an excellent book by the way. I've decided to build to the 13'7" plans.

My biggest challenge will be keeping it a surprise from her. I have a friend who will be letting me use a corner of his yard so I will have a place to build it. The molds and the strongback I can build her in my shop and then transport it to his place. After hers is done, I'll pay the royalty and build one for myself and that one I can do in my shop.

When I was a kid I helped my dad build a small daysailer, and I helped him restore a couple of plywood boats. This'll be my first
solo attempt. I'm looking forward to it.

Joe

[skuthorp]

Hi all, Had a mixed trip, weather was patchy, my broken ribs slowed me down (did I mention them before?), and the boat was quicker than me sometimes. One thing about bottling in very shallow water, you just stand up, right the boat, step back in - cute! Had a great BBQ on a sandbar miles from land, fought off mossies big enough to see on radar, lost the camera in one of my capsises (a cheapie as I anticipated some problems) but I had a load of fun! She's a joy under way and makes a beautiful warm chuckling noise through the water. The low profile leeboard is a mixed success as it is inclined to loose its bite abruptly when coming about and can catch, and toss you out. I will have to design some sort of a collapsible trolley that fits in the boat, something multi-purpose so it's not just dead weight, maybee a stove base and over-the-side table for keeping fish and fuel outside. Most of my light weight hiking gear is suitable, but I dont want to subject my ski-touring tent to salt water. That's about it for now, I will get some pics for you to look at soon. Oh yes, My sail-making was not really good enough and I might get one made professionally. Mine was not flat enough and has a "variable" profile that makes it difficult to point very high, and the leeboard was inclined to float away from the hull if things got a bit slack. Hi to the touring skier I noted some posts back, Ive been touring for over 30 years now, but it's a long time between drinks in Aus. Cheers all S.

[NormMessinger]

Oh, boy! That is what that canoe is made for. Wish I could have tagged along.

Mismanagement of the lee board make things wet, no doubt. Pour some lead in the board to make it float upright might help the problem you had with it floating up.

Lookin' forward to some pictures.

Best.

--Norm

[skuthorp]

Hi Norm, It would have been nice to have you along. I was sitting in the garden last night thinking about the perils of shallow water sailing alone; the enigmatic surface, 9", 9',or 90', and the tensions of navigation involving time, tide tables where, in a a zone of tides from 6' to 11', 6" can be the difference between safe passage and 6 hours on a mud bank . Charts are 20 years old and in intervals of 3' are of very little use. Here's some comment on the saftey aspects of lone sailing in general. Small boat sailors usually sail on enclosed waters or in racing packs, touring sailing is more akin to deep water sailing, especially alone. We usually dont have the luxury of modern electronic gear, though GPS'S and emergency beacons are available now at reasonable cost. Apart from the usual safety gear, a safety line would be a good addition as my boat can tip you out, right itself and sail on; and on-board cooking may not be a good idea! Does anyone think it may be worth establishing a "safety" comment site which may also cover aspects of using glues, paints etc for the amateur builder? Manufacturers publish all this info. but it is sometimes very technical and may not mean much where a builder has obtained a half gal. of 'whatsit' from a mate but not the safety notes. An example may be Tolulene based seam-sealers available in Aus.
NB Moderator? Would this interfere with policy on advertising?

[Bruce Taylor]

and makes a beautiful warm chuckling noise through the water

My Piccolo makes that very noise. Do you have pictures of your excursion?

[skuthorp]

To Bruce Taylor Not of this trip, the camera was lost overboard! I,ll get a floating one next time. Only a cheapie fortunately, but I can post some pics of the area later in the week. Is your piccolo a wooden one? I used to play trombone in a jazz band and I dabble with a 5 string banjo now, but I'm not very good!

[Bruce Taylor]

Is your piccolo a wooden one?

White cedar lapstrake on ash. It's a canoe-ketch, like the Oughtred boats, but with no deck.

As for music, I'll play (or at least pretend to play) almost anything that leaves my mouth free to take a drink or two. Or three. Oh hell, just give me the bottle.

[bud]

Now planning my next trip, and I've come to realize charts just aren't made for this kind of close to shore exploring. So my latest idea is to download and print satellite photos of the area. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/
I wish you could zoom in one more resolution, but even so you can see water depths, tidal areas etc. And most of all, you know it's RIGHT! Happy sailing.

[skuthorp]

<White cedar lapstrake on ash. It's a canoe-ketch, like the Oughtred boats, but with no deck.>
Apologies for my ignorance, I'm new to sailing canoes and they are a limited field here in Aus. In fact wooden canoes seem to be a very rare commodity here and I salivate at some of the beautiful craft available in the US. (personally I like malt scotch.)

[Rob H]

Well, moving forward at my usual GLACIAL pace,I got the building molds cleaned up and planed a pair of 2x6's for a strongback. And, of course, now the weather has warmed up and melted away all the snow, so no skiing anyway.
Skuthorp, what style are you playing on banjo? I used to play "old-timey" fiddle tunes, drop-thumb and frailing, if you know what is. I never got into bluegrass, though. Whole different thing. I'm afraid I haven't picked it up in several years.

[skuthorp]

G'day Rob H. Cant offer any insights as I didnt build my hull, however I did build the rig as a single masted yawl. I'm considering 2 masts for next summer after reading an article in Dec. Wooden Boat (we get 'em a month late) that suggests it may improve handling somewhat. On the other hand it restricts the saile(o)rs movements a bit, we'll see. My banjo 'style' was learned from old Pete Seeger records and his instruction book and I use it to accompany spoken poetry, Try looking up Banjo Patterson (www.looksmart.com) to see the material I mean. I fancy clawhammer myself, but make NO claims!

[LaMess]

I've come to realize charts just aren't made for this kind of close to shore exploring

While kayaking on the west coast I had no chart from Prince Rupert to Ketchikan. Should have seen that fishermans face when I asked for a compass bearing to K. Met a couple that paddled down from Juneau with a road map. Would love to go back there with a Macgregor.

[Rob H]

I first learned banjo from Pete Seeger's book, "How to Play the 5-String Banjo", in the early 60's. It was the only book on the subject at the time. Now I guess there are dozens! Clawhammer is the other name for the drop-thumb frailing style. Limited in some ways, but it is such a lovely sound!

Progress on the MacGregor will be slow. I have a few "honey-do's" to take care of and then I gotta clean out the shop before I can set the strongback up.
It's not that I NEED another boat, y'know!

[Will]

I think one of the great things about small boating is we can frequently travel to new waters . Not like those big soakers , which are typically chained to the dock and their local cruiseing grounds . I've often used my roadmap when putting in for a daysail .It's like useing charts from the 1400's .No bouyage or depth info , and the contours of the coast are drawn as the maker imagines them .Small islands are added or omitted . There may or may not be an indication of True North and it may or may not be accurate .Better than nothing ,but I can't imagine cruiseing without charts .Maybe one could carry a cell phone and call Triple A if you got in a jam ?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-02-2002).]

[Bruce Taylor]

A friend of mine brought his cellphone on a short river trip we took last year. As soon as we hit the whitewater, he informed me that he had a phone, and didn't want it to get wet.

Of course, we dumped anyway. My buddy panicked as we were crossing an eddy line...grabbed a tree branch (he was in the bow) and over we went.

Miraculously, his very expensive cell phone didn't get wet. However, he'd had enough whitewater, so he insisted we stop paddling and walk out of the bush. That would have been easy enough, if we'd been on the other side of the river. However, we had that cellphone, so we couldn't paddle or swim to the far side. It took us four hours to trudge out to the highway, through stinging nettles and swampy muck.

When we got home, we were truly exhausted. We stripped off our wet muddy clothes and tossed them in the laundry. Then my buddy had the excellent idea of doing a load of laundry. He scooped up our muddy rags and tossed them in the machine. An hour later, as I was putting the wet clothes in the dryer, I found....the bloody cellphone in the pocket of his just-washed pants!!

MOral of the story: if you bring a cell phone, put the stupid thing in a dry bag.

[Will]

So much of cellphone use is pure thumbsucking . Next time tell him to bring his blankee instead .

[LaMess]

That is a really funny story but what happened to the boat?

[Bruce Taylor]

Lynn -- The next day we borrowed a second canoe & paddled upstream to the first rapids. Then I walked in, got the canoe and soloed out.

The boat we borrowed was something unusual: kevlar skin (no gelcoat) on cedar frames, ash gunwales, thwarts & decks. Light as a feather, and more abrasion-resistant than wood/canvas. A nice compromise.

[mattsboatworks]

having built oughtreds macgregor in the extended version in lapstrake in northern white cedar, only for double paddle,i would suggest two bags of rocks amidships as ballast ,even in the smallest of small canadian breezes.c said it best; slightly tender;however with a wind and three bags /hold on!