22 Square Metre

[Leigh]

A boat has caught my eye thats for sale locally, a 22 Square Metre design. I haven't yet had a chance to look at it, other than pics, but its a lovely boat to see.
Considering the "extreme" nature of the designs of Square Metre boats (narrow beam, very long and not a lot of usable cabin area), and my desire for something I can sail by myself as well as with friends, am I stark raving mad to even consider such a boat?
Another problem is that typical of these boats, there is no inboard, so theres probably some sort of outboard rig for an auxiliary....wonder how usefull this set up would be on a 42ft long deep keel yacht?
Anyone have any experience with these types of boats?

[ 08-21-2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Leigh ]

[S/V Laura Ellen]

The 30 Squares have a well for a small outboard located just aft of the cockpit. The outboat will easily push the boat to hull speed. Very nice looking boats and a lot of fun to sail.

Allan

[ahp]

I have known two 30 Square Meters, and neither had outboard wells. I would consider some sort of clamp on the side by the cockpit.

"Oreol" at the Museum of Yachting in Newport got away without any auxillary power. You might even consider rowing with a single sweep standing up in the cockpit facing foreward. Folkboats sometimes did this and they weigh in at 4400 pounds, empty.

LOA of 42 ft. sounds long for a 22 Square Meter. The two 30 Squares that I knew were 42 and 38 ft. LOA.

Finally I would say that you could singlehand her if she were well supplied with cam cleats for halyards and sheets, so you could cleat off and release with one hand. Lead all lines to the cockpit.

[lagspiller]

Hello Leigh,

I own a 22 sq.m. and usually sail singlehanded without problem. In fact, I have been given compliments on how easy it looks while tacking up a narrow channel. It is a stable, fast and very attractive design.

As far as cabin space, a 22 will be pretty ribbed of conviences. Mine has 4 bunks. That's it. I put in a head, but that is 'extra equipment'. They are racing craft and only have the minimum requirements within the rules unless they have 'retired' from racing. But the races were held all over the Scandinavian penninsula and the rules required some living space for the crews. Mine had Bergen Norway as home port, but it was raced in Copenhagen Denmark more than once around 1930. The 30 sq.m. (which is generally about the same length) was one of the first 'modern' boats to cruise extensive single handed trips (Blondie Hasler - Tre Sang). And Uffa Fox (British designer of the Flying 15) sailed his from England to Sweden to compete in the championships... That is pretty tough water for any boat.

So I don't think the boat will be the limiting factor if you want to cruise in a sq.m.

Mine is 32'. When I got the boat, it had a outboard mounted on a bracket by the cockpit. That was stress, so I put in an outboard well just behind the cockpit. A 4.5 hp moves it very well, 5-6 knots. Most actively raced sq.m. still use a bracket mounted outboard to avoid drag.

Depending on the age of the design (they are still produced in Sweden, by the way) a 22 will be anything from 28' to a little over 42'. Most are in the 34-36' range. 42' is not uncommon - especially from the Swedish designers.

I have made a website you might enjoy about the classes and my own boat (not updated this year, but still worth a look, perhaps?)
http://home.online.no/~tjohnson

tom
Norway

[rbgarr]

I sail a 30' Shields mostly singlehanded and have no trouble. She has an open cockpit and is probably easier for me to move around in (sailhandle) than a boat with a cabin between the cockpit and the mast.

Sailing singlehanded in this size and style of boat would be more troublesome if the mooring filed were crowded, the sailing waters were shallow and traffic was confining (but in my case, it's not).

I have an outboard mount that can be put on the side of the cockpit, but the boat maneuvers poorly with it until she's up to speed, which can take quite a while in time and space. If I had to keep the boat in a marina or at a dock and depended on getting in and out under power alone it would a real PITA.

[Leigh]

Thanks very much for the info, guys....thanks Tom for your website....lovely boats!
I must admit that I thought there'd be a removable clamp arrangement for the outboard, but didn't think of a well....thats a good idea.
The boats name is SKERRY OF KURRABA, and heres a couple of pics.
http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/getmsg/Skerry-side-new.jpg?
http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/getmsg/Skerry-cockpit-to-interior-.jpg?
http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/getmsg/Skerry-on-slip1.jpg?
http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/getmsg/Skerry-side-deck.jpg?

[Leigh]

darn, well that didn't work....I'm going to have to save the pics and load them up on Imagestation I think....
heres a link to the advert.
=http://boatpoint.ninemsn.com.au/MarketPlace/UsedBoatDetail.asp?txtMagcode=M273065&lstType=SS&lstUse=L&lstMinPrice= 2 0&lstMaxPrice=25&lstLength=ft38-45&lstStateCode=NSW&lstDteAdded=Any&txtMake=metre&PageNo=1&txtKeywords=]22 Sq Metre

[ 08-21-2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Leigh ]

[Leigh]

Hmmm, just not my night, I think.... :(

[Rich VanValkenburg]

I hope you can see these without a login. It's our 22 square S200 Sonja. There's an outboard well aft of the cockpit and adjacent to the horn timber.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291769591

I expected to be finished with the rebuild this year, but I've been living in a real nightmare since March and haven't been able to work on her much.

Rich

[lagspiller]

I managed to see the picture at this link:
http://www.azboats.com.au/search/email_printout1.asp?boatID=4065
Looks like a prime yacht. I also remember the name SKERRY OF KURRABA, but cannot recall if it is because I have written with the previous owner or just because I have read about her.
Name sounds very familiar, though...

[Andreas Jordahl Rhude]

My brother has a 1930's 22 square meter built in Sweden. She's 42 feet in length. A beautiful boat and easy to sail with just one person. She has a motor well under the helm seat. Take the seat bench up and there she is. The motor gets stored under the rear deck. A bit combersome to get in and out but not impossible. Obviously not an original feaure. We have slept four on the vessel, which is VERY uncomfortable. Two is really the max. and even that's not very fun for trying to actually get some sleep. A wonderful boat that loves to sail!

[Leigh]

Rich,
Sonja is a stunner....fantastic! How much does a 22 Sq Metre of this length (42ft) draw?
I've loaded some pics on Imagestation...so I'll try again...lol.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p647ac824ba65537dbe0c55ed04133342/f7574004.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/pda05ddee4fcfc6e88dff56d13aece244/f7574acf.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p983cc8ed3473a11da8b790597efd398e/f757400a.jpg

[ 08-22-2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Leigh ]

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Sonja is 38' and draws 4'6". If you have the sail number, here's a link to possibly finding out more--

http://www.sskf.se/Matrikel/matrikel.htm

Rich

[Chris.]

Leigh,
I am also in Sydney and own a 22 sq metre designed by Harry Becker and built by Peter Cole. It was built at the same time as Skerry, and has overlapping history. I have done a fair bit of work on mine over the last 12 months and have become aware of what the weaknesses of the hull and rig are. If you need some tips contact off forum, and i would happily volunteer to get deep and dirty into your boat.
smile.gif Cheers,
Chris.

[Leigh]

Thanks very much Chris, I am going to look at the boat next week, along with another smaller boat (which actually fits my intended use a bit better). Talking to the agent, the boats had a few problems in the past but seems to have been brought up to a reasonable standard....the draft at 6.5' is a little deeper than I'd like for Port Hacking (the channels around 6' at low tide)...but its a real beauty to look at. I'm told the boat is about the size of a 30 sq but the rig is smaller than a 22 sq - still supposed to be a good sailer.
I'll post up what I think after I've been on board.

[Chris.]

Leigh,
have a look at your private messages - i sent you one with my phone number. call me before you look at the boat and i can tell you where to look for the common problems.
Looking at the photos, Skerry is very similar to mine, so i would be most surprised if draft is actually 6.5 ft. this much draft would be very unusual for a 22sq - most are around 4.5 ft max. This should be OK for Port Hacking, though it is a while since I sailed there. I grew up in Caringbah and did all my early sailing from Cronulla Sailing Club.
Skerry was rerigged during the 1970s so she (like my Flamingo) does not have the standard 22 sq rig. From what i was told by a guy who used to sail on and against both, Skerry (again like mine) was given a LARGER rig. Apparently, the 22 sqs were underpowered for Sydney Harbour chop and needed more sail to compete with the 30 sqs.
The agent may be partially correct when saying the rig is smaller, but perhaps that is because the biggest overlapping genoas are missing. An issue with a larger rig is that it can overstress the hull and cause frame and floor damage around the mast step.
Regarding the outboard well, I have one in the cockpit and i hate it. It will be closed over when i pull her out for antifouling in a few weeks. I use a side-mounted 4 hp outboard for those days when i just can't sail off the mooring.
Good luck!
Chris.

[Leigh]

Thanks Chris....but I've decided to pass on checking out either boat. After some discussion with my sailing partner (wife), who is just as interested in us getting a boat as me, we've decided to stick with our original idea of building a trailer boat so we can enjoy different sailing locations and holidays.
So, looks like as soon as I get my new garage sorted out, I'll be off to order our new Scruffie Stornoway.
Thanks everyone for your replies to my questions. The info and interest is much appreciated.
Regards,
Leigh

[ 08-28-2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Leigh ]