trailer tips please

[bheys]

I need a trailer for my Fulmar(16'8"). I assume this boat will be in the 500-600 lb. range (with rig and gear). The hull will spend the bulk of its life on this trailer. Do I have to fabricate some long hull-conforming bunks? Are shorter and pivoting side supports adequate? Should I mainly focus on supporting the keel with rollers? To date, most of the trailers that I've seen that are of sufficient length seem to be designed for much heavier boats. Is that a problem? Thanks in advance.

[shadow99]

I've found that the weight difference is a big part of how your boat will handle on a particular trailer. My 15' boat only weighs 135 lbs, the trailer was set-up for 800 lbs. 1st week driving around boat spent more time in the air :eek: (still attached to trailer), than on the ground.

I removed 2 leafs from each side of the trailer, then added (2) 50 lb bars to each side. Also I changed the tires over from 4.80x8" fixed hub to 5x12" diameter rims & new hubs. The boat/trailer assy. now stays firmly planted to Mother Earth :D , while cruising down the worst of highways.

Rick

[Venchka]

I'm in the same boat, pun intended, only mine is Iain Oughtred's Caledonia Yawl. Same hull paint as yours, by the way.

If you look long and hard, you can find a trailer with a 58" wide axle, 18'-19' LOA, 13" wheels, two bunks turned wide side to the hull, keel rollers and a load capacity of 925 pounds.

McClain Trailers in Baton Rouge, LA builds such a trailer. 1-800-490-0664 or 1-800-747-3059. I think the first number is in Baton Rouge & the other in Texas. Or the other way round.

EZ-LOADER in Spokane, WA might have something similar. (509) 489-0181

You're right about keel rollers taking most of the load with the bunks providing lateral stabilty. Rollers can be added easily if the cross members are more or less in the right places. 3 should be enough. 1 roller under the aft half of the centerboard would be ideal.

Good luck!

[ 05-21-2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[JimD]

I have a Karavan trailer, strong and the price is right. It came with straight bunks that I replaced with custom made ones to conform to the hull shape to distribute the stress.

[ishmael]

Not to disparage the comments so far at all. Tuning the springs to the hull weight etc. are good ideas. But here's another forum that might provide some more information.

http://www.trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/

[Don Maurer]

I just finished fitting my Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie (13 1/2') to a trailer. The trailer was designed for 800 lbs, the boat weighs 200 lbs max. I removed 2 leaves from the springs, leaving one. I also added a full length bunk for the keel. It carries all the weight and supports the weighted centerboard. The original side bunks were replaced by 2x4's that were hollowed slightly with a spokeshave to follow the curve of the bilge. About 3' of the bilge is supported by the side bunks.

[ishmael]

My Drascombe Lugger weighs in around 700 lbs. I think the issue of being too heavily sprung will be less of an issue given the reported weight of the boat being towed. But I haven't thought much about configurations of trailers which, let's be honest, are mostly designed for bassboats and such that weigh a lot for their length compared to a glued lap sailboat.

[landlocked sailor]

I also have a Karavan for my WINDWARD 15, <250 lbs. The price was ~$350 at my local marine store. I have trailered her for at least 3000 miles so far without any problems. Keep those Bearing Buddies greased! Rick

[Venchka]

I forgot to mention, and you probably know, you want a galvanized trailer.

Generic trailers come in 3 axle widths-4', 5' and 6' in round numbers. A boat like your Gannet would ride best on a 5' axle which places the wheels outboard of the hull for better lateral stability. As far as the suspension is concerned, there are trailers built with the 5' width axle and 1,200 pound GVWR which yield a 900 pound capacity. That puts a 600 pound boat at about 2/3 of the trailer capacity which is about right from a safety factor standpoint. You might have to special order a trailer set up like that, but it will be worth it long term. Maybe I'm spoiled down here in the Swamp. We have a lot of trailer vendors and they are willing to customize the axle/suspension/frame/tire set up.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Keep your eyes open any time you get near a batch of old boat trailers. If you ever see a little old Holsclaw with this kind of coil spring and shock absorber suspension - BUY IT! Even if you also have to buy the boat that's sitting on it and throw it away. The difference in quietness and smoothness compared to leaf springs is unbelievable. This one's had about four different sailboats on it over the past ten years and now carries kayaks in the summer and our iceboat in the winter. We keep changing the boats, but the trailer isn't going anywhere.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid30/pc76152efd744ec5d3c57ea33206cc59a/fd577ad4.jpg

[Venchka]

Thanks, Todd!

Easy to see why they are no longer available-that's a lot of labor and parts compared to a pair of leaf springs.

Hmmmmmmm...the guys at work keep asking me what they can build for my boat. An axle and suspension like that for the trailer might be just the thing.

[Barrett Faneuf]

It is WAAAAY too early for me to be looking at trailers.. BUT I like to plan waaaay ahead.

So Todd, you mention sailboats/kayaks, so I assume this is a relatively light duty trailer. Do you thing an arrangement like this would be appropriate for a MUCH heavier trailered boat, like my 2 ton darling being designed? Or in that scale, would a leaf spring suspension be the ticket?

Either way, I'm fairly sure I'mm going to have to have my trailer cutom built, and I'm trying to get a small handle on what to tell the welders to build.

Now that I think more on it, I suspect I'm going to have to go the leaf spring route; this arrangement puts all the boat higher in the air than I'm likely to want.

Oh, well.. great design for the lighter boat set.

[ 05-22-2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Barrett Faneuf ]

[bheys]

You folks are very helpful. Thanks. I have a couple additional questions: What are the advantages/liabilities in a torsion axle style suspension? Does wheel/tire size make much difference for a lightweight trailer?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Most of the Holsclaw trailers in this size range had a capacity of 600-700 lbs. The sticker is long gone on this one, so I don't know exactly what it was. We used it for sailboats in the 400 lb. range and the kayaks are naturally much lighter. As to whether it could be up-sized for a substantially larger boat, I don't know. You would need a much more educated opinion on it than I can give you.

Height-wise, the level at which you can start piling stuff onto it is only about an-inch-and-a-half higher than that of the Karavan, leaf-sprung trailer that I have under the Mini-12 and given the difference in how they perform, I'd find a way to deal with it. A boat with a deep keel or skeg that had to nest down between the wheels could be a problem and take some figuring and re-designing in order for this type of system to work.

The construction isn't really all that complex, though it would be more work than just bolting a couple of springs between the frame and axle. The base plate for the entire suspension system is an upside-down piece of steel channel (the lower piece with all the holes in it). Axles, fender mounts, the springs and shocks are all either welded or bolted to it and it is in turn bolted under the trailer's semi-ladder frame. The outboard ends look like this:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p92a2e99fea36ef86e8e2621d4d0c7d4d/fc1925d9.jpg

Other critical parts seem to be the cross-wise, mid-axle-brace-gizmo that you can see in the first picture (which I assume keeps the axle from wandering side-to-side) and a pair of fore-and-aft struts which connect the bottom of the axle assembly to the ladder frame about three feet in front of the wheels. These keep the whole assembly from falling over forward or backwards. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pb3803455b8b0fa24472231139614e858/fc193f9d.jpg

The entire assembly can be removed from the trailer's frame in one piece by pulling the bolts holding the channel to the frame and the two attaching the forward end of the struts to the frame. This lets you move the running gear forward or backward on the frame to get the trailer balance the way you want it.

It's a very clever system that works superbly. No loud leaf springs clanging together, none of that "trailer jerking on the bumper with every bump" crap and my 2000 Astro Van actually gets better mileage pulling the kayak trailer than it does all by itself. The only drawback is that you seriously have to remember that you're pulling a trailer, even if you don't hear or feel it.

[Venchka]

bheys-

Tire size matters because of rotational speed of the trailer tires. Smaller tires are turning WAY faster than your tow vehicle tires. 12" (to my mind) is a minimum and 13" is better. My tow vehicles have 15" & 16" tires, so I went with 13" tires on the trailer. That was as close as I could get to a match.

Originally posted by Barrett Faneuf:
Either way, I'm fairly sure I'mm going to have to have my trailer cutom built, and I'm trying to get a small handle on what to tell the welders to build.Barrett,

Here are a few examples of where to start for your thinking on trailers.
Champion Aluminum Trailers (http://www.championtrailers.com/trlrnet.html)

Look at models TA2224-7074 & TA2426-7074. They have 5,800# + or - capacity, 14" wheels & brakes. $2,500 + or -

GOOGLE can find more examples.

Since your boat will be double ended like mine, you can get by with a shorter trailer. You run out of places to support the boat near the stern & the last 2 or 3 feet of hull aren't very heavy.

Looking at a lot of horse and utility trailers towed by pick-up trucks around here, I wonder why more folks with heavy boats don't use gooseneck (5th wheel) trailers. They make all kinds of sense for loads of 2 tons or more. If you are building from scratch, it might make sense. Check it out.

[Barrett Faneuf]

Originally posted by Venchka:


Looking at a lot of horse and utility trailers towed by pick-up trucks around here, I wonder why more folks with heavy boats don't use gooseneck (5th wheel) trailers. They make all kinds of sense for loads of 2 tons or more. If you are building from scratch, it might make sense. Check it out.I am looking at non-5th wheel trailers because I have a Class IV hitch, not a 5th-wheel hitch, and am unlikely to install such a monster. The Class IV is rated to over 10,000 lbs though.

Thanks for the links though, that's definitely a start.

[D Gobby]

Coil Spring and Shocks I bet thats a soft riding trailer. Perfect for Small light loads.

Has anyone checked out any of the Torflex axel made by Dexter Axle. They make one with a 600-1100lb capacity that looks about right for the 15' daysailor I'm building.

The axel spindles are connected to each other by rubber thru the inside of the axel tube. Allows independent wheel movement with 3" of travel.

There smallest axel can even be had with 15" wheels.

If I remember right this is the same type of set up that is used by Airstream for there travel trailers which are know for there soft and quiet ride.

Looks like they can be ordered custom widths to fit the application.

I'm planing on using one for my next trailer unless its not a good idea.

Just something to look at.

Darrel

[daddles]

Take a look at the trailer made for CrazyBird - a Caledonia Yawl. CB rests on it's keel and is kept upright by the restraining clamps. Nothing touches the hull itself.
CrazyBird's Trailer (http://www.mavc2002.com/caledoniayawl/trailer.htm)

Cheers
Richard

[Venchka]

Originally posted by daddles:
Take a look at the trailer made for CrazyBird - a Caledonia Yawl. CB rests on it's keel and is kept upright by the restraining clamps. Nothing touches the hull itself.

Cheers
RichardNo doubt Crazybird's trailer is ideal. Alas, it was custom made with the boat available to the trailer's builder. Most of us need a trailer to move the boat from the building location once it's completed. I suppose in a perfect world you could borrow/rent a trailer to take the boat to a custom trailer shop. In the less than perfect real world, you buy the best trailer you can find at the time the boat is ready for a trailer. Somewhere down the road, you could do what Nick Grainger did and have a perfect trailer custom built.

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
Other critical parts seem to be the cross-wise, mid-axle-brace-gizmo that you can see in the first picture (which I assume keeps the axle from wandering side-to-side)That's a Watt's Link.
That's what's on my friends GT1 racecar. smile.gif
Never seen it on a tailer, never mind the coil springs way :cool:

I'm thinking of building a light weight trailer out of aluminum. If I can make the trailer expand, my crossbeams can be a single piece, so I won't have to build it into the boat, which will save weight.

[SailBoatDude]

Nothing personal "daddles" but I'd rather not use giant clamps to mash my boat onto a trailer. It looks to be a balancing act dependent on the screw pressure of the clamps and them not slipping on what ever they are pinning down.

I saw a similar arrangement, but with the screws mounted on the rubs. Seems a better idea there as the rubs are designed to take a beating. The boat stood on her keel and was held upright by the screws (4) on the rub rails. The screws were actually adjustable rollers, helping guild the boat into position and dog her upright.

For a light weight boat your setup should be okay, if the springs are matched to the boat weight.

Trailing link trailers (coil springs, shocks and "fore and aft struts") aren't available in larger sizes and do place the boat higher off the ground, nice riding though. Shocks can be mounted on most any trailer and do worlds of good in the trailering ride department.

[Paul Scheuer]

Anybody ever seen or heard about torsion bar suspensions for light trailers. Seems like there was an idea used on small campers in the seventies or so. The simplicity was appealing and it had the potential for a lower structure in the center and a lower ride for the boat.

[Leon m]

Todd
Thanks for the good advice on trailers!
I just bought a trailor today with a suspension
system like the one you showed above.

A guy down the road had one sitting in his
back yard ,hadn't moved for a few years so
I made him an offer and after some haggling
we settled on $150.00.

I packed the bearings threw some new tires
on her and away we went.

Its called a TeeNee Trailer.Its rated to
800 lbs. it has a real beefed frame and
it rides down the road...OH...SO...SWEET !

Thanks again !

P.S. I have my sail plans ...drop an e-mail
and we'll set something up.

[Ron Williamson]

I had a TeeNee under my 15' Peterborough.Excellent ride but a bit under-sized for that boat.The single main-beam-tongue had a fair bit of flex in it and allowed the boat to hog(Probably due to the 40HP Johnson sticking way aft of the axle).
R