How Heavy is too heavy to Row

[Zane Lewis]

When I was younger we had a Buzzards Bay 14 which we rowed when there was no wind. Quickly the BB14 is 17'3"loa and displaces about 2000 lb ??. We had no problems rowing her standing up & facing forward.

My question is at what point displacement/length wise does it become impractical to use oars. I am talking about rowing in flat water only. Other wise I would be either sailing or motoring.

[ 04-28-2002, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Zane Lewis ]

[PugetSound]

You got me pal! I read a long article in a boating book once that detailed the experiences of a guy who was able to borrow a Rosinante for a summer. The owner was a purist and so there was no motor. The guy had 10 foot sweeps with which he reported that he could make (and sustain) about 1 1/2 knots in calm water off of the Maine coast.

I think alot really depends on how many people you have on the oars and how much time they have to get home. I might mention that, for a large boat, you might do better towing the larger boat in a dingy (preferably with a small outboard).

[skuthorp]

In the Sea scouts we used to row a clinker ex-navy whaler with 6 or 8 kids and 12ft oars. The weight of the oars for boys seemed to be more important than the weight of the boat, once you get it moving. We were not heavy enough to get the proper advantage from the natural flex of the oars even though their balance was ok. (Anyone tried boat jousting?)

[doorstop]

Sku'll'thorp, mate, I have six of those oars in my beach house at Beachport, I am trying (very carefully) to get my hooks on the rest of the boat. I can access the mast and rigging too.... They were great fun in the sea scouts but boy were they heavy for us kids to row. We had 1 large bloke, "Tank" by name, and he would take 1 stroke to 3 of the rest of us!
Maybe that's my "job", instead of building the new boat perhaps I should concentrate on the Scout Patrol Boat.... Hmmmmm....

[Donn]

I row a 16' fiberglass dory which weighs 400# dry, and probably twice that with me, a 20HP motor, can of gas, and fishing tackle aboard. 10' fiberglass oars move her well, if slowly.

[N. Scheuer]

I used to row and scull a 1000 lb, 21 ft Dovekie. Distances of up to a few miles were no problem; as the builder said, "You can row a Dovekie about as fast as a man can walk along the shore, but the the man ashore can't transport a crew and all of their gear for a weekend."

Moby Nick

[nedL]

What kind of distances are you talking? Up to about 30' is not all that unrealistic if you are talking pretty flat & calm, & in & out of an anchorage. I wouldn't want to have to fight wind or current for any distance though. (Personally, a 30' double ended steel lifeboat w/a 2 cylinder Lister diesel in it is the largest thing I've ever rowed alone. Not too bad either, just take your time.)

[ 04-29-2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[J. Dillon]

Zane,

I think only you can answer that question. After input from here your own research and an appraisial of your personel "endurance".

Consider the Chinese of the past. They propeled vessels of heavy displacement( tons) using a "Yuloh" a type of sculling oar mounted on a transom or admidships. One back issue of WB had an article on sculling. See if you can get it or a book "Junks and Sampans of the Yangtze by Worcester. Women and children as reported in the book can get up to 3.5 kts or more. Some think the Yuloh is more efficient than an oar as it employs hydrodoils more effectively by subtle shape of the blade.

JD

JD

[ahp]

Tancook Whalers were commonly rowed by two men standing up, facing forward with sweeps. These were small double ended schooners, mostly open, with stone ballast. They were as large as 40 feet,LOA.

An aquaintance helped row one of these, the "Edmund Languile", across Massachusetts Bay. I have been on board her a dockside, and I believe see was 40 feet LOA.

She no longer exists unfortunatly. She was allowed to be swept under a bridge.

[Ben Fuller]

Actually the Vernon Langille does exist. She was down on the Connecticut River as part of a youth training program a few years ago, which program sold her to the director. Last summer out at Block Island she sank in a race, but was refloated.

Problem with the big heavy boats is matching the speed of the oar to the boat with out stalling the oar or getting a real big load. That is why most big stuff is facing forward where body weight leaning on the oar does the work. The Chinese yuloh provides continuos propulsion like a slow propellor, and if rigged right all you need to do is push it forth and back using your body. I think Rodger Taylor had one on a Buzzards Bay 25 which worked well. Another advantage is that it can be made take a part.

[ 04-29-2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Ben Fuller ]

[cdragon]

Dear Puget Sound - "Rozinante" not rosinante-sorry to be so picky, but they are lovely boats and a testament to the skill of L. Francis...anyway, a 10' ash sweep (just one) with the tiller wedged against the mizzen and we can move our engineless Rozinante easily-I guess you can get her up to maybe 2 knots if you really work, but it is very pleasant-standing up and pushing-and fun too-not to mention the looks you get from the cigarette boat types and even the-so-called-hearty-sailors who use the donk alot more they they ought to!!

[N. Scheuer]

Thanks cdragon! Your Rozinante yarn kicked my memory into gear even better than my first post above.

We'd launched our 28 ft Shearwater yawl up-river in South Haven last summer to take TRUE NORTH down to a marina downstream from the WOODENBOAT SHOW site. For the first time in a few years our 9.9 hp "Yammerhammer" wouldn't run, so I borrowed a pair of 8 ft spruce oars from my Brother who had a wooden skiff on display at the Show. A loose loop of line kept each oar secured by the gallows across the cockpit where I could row while standing, facing aft.

Rowing the Shearwater slowly along amongst the harbor traffic was no problem, as long as I anticipated where the boat should go well in advance, and kept her moving.

We never did get the motor going that weekend, and when the time came for a sail with friends Sunday morning, we rowed out of the harbor to some suitable wind, and returned upriver to the launch ramp the same way.

Shaw & Tenney want a fortune for oars sized to fit the Shearwater just right, so I guess I'll have to make a pair.

Moby Nick

[Todd Schliemann]

For what it's worth, I have "rowed" my 5,5 ton crusing sloop with a very long sweep oar up against a winch facing forward with the tiller between my legs. Got maybe a knot or two for a mile or so coming into harbor in a calm sea. She builds up way with the momentum. Don't recall doing more than a few times and I wouldn't exactly call it "rowing." In any kind of wind it would be fruitless.

[John B]

come on Zane, what "mischief" are you up to?. I thought you were putting a 50 hp outboard in a skipjack so you could plane home past all the keelers?

[Zane Lewis]

Oh Come on John don't be so hard on me. I am adding to my museings for my sharpie plan. Yes I am planning on a 15HP OB. But having also rowed our little boat I know that it can be quite fun.

I have towed our H28 from the dingy using oars while we had no motor for 3 seasons but found that hard work due to the spring in the tow rope. The seagull worked much better if we had any distance to go.

My thinking was rowing for short distances in favorable conditions only standing up facing forward. I had not thought about the a sculling oar or Yuloh

[ 04-30-2002, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Zane Lewis ]

[John B]

Slocum rowed his Spray . That must have been a mission. It's surprising to me just how little power you do need to keep a boat going. We went without a motor on Waione for 7 years, had a scare one year becalmed off cape brett where the swells rolled us down towards the rocks and I rowed her off with the dinghy. after that I bought a 2 hp outboard and barged waione with the dinghy strapped to the quarter. 2 hp = 2 knots. 3hp ( later) = 3 knots. Shes 41 ft and about 7 ton.
Never tried rowing her with sweeps though.

[mmd]

The Tancoook Schooners and Bush Island Double -enders of pre-WWI vintage were commonly rowed in the morning calm. These were gaff-rigged fishing sailboats, usually in the 24-ft to 30-ft range, loaded with nets, gear, and one to three men. Fully laden they would have displaced up to 15,000 lbs.; on the way out in the morning (dry nets, no catch) probably in the range of up to 12,000 lbs. The 24-ft Labradore Whaler as built in Lunenburg between 1890 - 1906 (and re-produced at the Fisheries Museum in 1999) was fitted with two sets of dory-type tholes for rowing; one aft and one at 'midships. Apparently, the reproduction rows quite well from the stern station - facing forward - with four seated guests 'midships. I calculated from her lines that that load would place her at a displacement of about 7500 lbs.

I hope these little tidbits of boats from my grandfather's time and place will add to the database developing here.

[Zane Lewis]

Thanks Guys, MMD, Todd and everyone, that info with displacements is great info for me. I am hoping my displacement will be about 6000lb +-500lb.

John am guessing that you are on the pile moorings at westhaven. We had Mischief 17000lb in them for 3 months a few years back and I did not find it an enjoyable expeience with the cross tide and winds. So I am impressed if you where getting in and out of there with the OB.

[GondolaGuy]

The best way to row is standing up and facing forward. You can use your body more efficiently, and you can see where you are going. Most people who haven't tried it are affraid that the boat will tip over, but once you try it for a little, it is like riding a bicycle.

Here in Venice, we only row standing up and facing forward, even in boats that have less than a foot of freeboard and are only 3 feet wide. Before the advent of motorization, barges of enormous size would be rowed around the lagoon with just a few people.

The gondola is a perfect example: it is 36 feet long, and weighs 1,100 lbs when fully loaded. The gondolier is able to row the boat with several passangers at a walking pace, using no more energy then just walking at the same speed, carrying no load. (NB: The gondola is rowed with an oar, and not polled, as many believe to be the case, since there is only one oar.)

They were able to demonstrate this fact of the energy by using a device like a breath mask that measured the oxygen consumption of the gondolier. The amount of oxygen consumed is a direct indicator of the amount of energy exerted.

I hope more people will catch on to this wonderful style of rowing, so that they can get rid of the crick in their neck and enjoy their time on the water.

Thom Price
Venice, Italy
www.squero.com (http://www.squero.com)

[Ian McColgin]

Halsey Herrashoff, the leading light in the original Freedom 40, had the first boat enginless. Back then, he'd have his two then teen-aged sons on the sweeps while he kept the stroke on two large pots.

During the many long periods Goblin's engin was down I'd row her - towing from Leeward was easier than sweeps given Goblin's layout. I used this for close manouver in calms, like getting the couple miles from dock to mooring. Not useful against a current and if there's any wind at all it's better to sail.

I don't see why one person can't hand propell something up to about 12T if the hull's sweet and you're not in a huge hurry.

The main thing is, it works if you shift your attitude to accomodate Mother Ocean.

G'luck

[Ian G Wright]

Two men, two sweeps, 50 tons of loaded Thames lighter.
Granted, they let the tide do most of the work, but who dosn't?

IanW.

[LaMess]

I know this isn't helpful but Yikes!

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/cc304c2/unit7/5.jpg

[Todd Schliemann]

Lynn,

That chin thing on the "king and queen" is something. Then again, they are probably just an old married couple doing the "stick your tongue out at each other" ... thing.

Talking about rowing barges ... when I was a wee freshmen at school I joined up with the rowing team. The rigger built a steel barge for the unintiated rowers aspiring to olympic fame, to teach us how to row a bit so that we didn't trash and sink the old Pocock shells that we cherished so later on. Sorta like Lynn's pictogram.

This barge was something. Must of been 50 feet x 12 feet with a big ol' flat plate steel rudder, flat bottom, square stern and a bit of an up turn in the bow ... but dead a rectangle in plan.
Eight rowers a side, sliding seats and foot holds, out riggers and all ... all salvaged from other long lost boats, presumably trashed and sank. A walkway up the middle for the coach, God bless his patience. He actully took out it out, fully loaded with a bunch of know-nothing yahoos, with no other propulsion than his verbal encouragement. The barge must have displaced about 8 ton fully loaded.

On the first outting, with a raw bunch, it was the most histerical thing to see. 16 guys crashing oars, launching themselves overboard as they "caught a crab." However, by the end of the day it always came back to the dock smooth as could be. I don't remember how fast it went, but I remember we actually could turn it 180 in place.

The only thing it lacked, and could have used, were chains. The attrition rate after the first day was horrendous. Course I thought it was all kinda neat, enough so that I went on to bash and sink a few Pococks myself over the years.