Caledonia Yawl

[Don Olney]

At the link below, are photos of the Caledonia Yawl built by boatbuilder Geoff Kerr and shown at the WoodenBoat Show in the late 90's. They may be useful to you if you are building this design.

The detail in the photos is much better if you click on them to enlarge.

The photo "caledonia yawl 012" has smudge/gouge/googe on it in case you are wondering what that odd looking thing is hanging from the mizzen sheet.

Caledonia Yawl (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290186359)

[ 06-03-2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Don Olney ]

[Venchka]

Thanks Don!

Most helpful!

[Bill Perkins]

Thanks for the pics Don , what a nice boat . I missed Mystic that year so I can really appreciate them . I may be a minority of one , but the offset tiller ,which seems to have been adapted from Scandinavian work boats , doesn't seem the best choice to me on sporty small boats where the helmsperson needs to sit to windward on occasion . In the powerfull work boats this was no problem , and there was a pic on the Forum of a traditional Norse boat reaching along on Starboard tack with the helmsman sitting contentedly to leeward , as the geometry of the tiller dictated . I've used such a tiller on one fairly tender small boat in which I definitely needed to jump to windward on coming about . It just didn't seem that handy to me .The small daysailers I saw in Oslo once certainly weren't using it .

Your photos illustrate the reduced mobility of a helsman sitting to Starboard as the tiller effectively shortens , and the reduced mechanical advantage applied to the rudder head as the tiller ceases to be perpendicular to the crosspiece attached to it . Of course people will adapt to( and vigorously defend ) most anything , but it seems to me that there are better small boat setups .

I saw a boat down at Cedar Key a couple of weeks ago with a crosspiece extended past both sides of the rudder head and fitted with dual tillers , which I thought was a creative evolution of the type for small boats . Then there's the old rig of the Beachcomber / Alpha dories with a line run forward Port and Starboard from such a cross yoke .I've heard of people running such lines through fairleads to the forward end of the cockpit where they were joined together with a tentioning device (shockcord?) .This gives complete control of the rudder from anywhere in the boat , in all conditions , which seems like the ideal to me .

[ 05-12-2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[NormMessinger]

Nope, your fears are unfounded, Bill. Having sailed on Akimbo (home port, Lincoln Nebraska) a couple of times I can confirm that one moves from side to side without out loss of control. I had trouble getting used to pulling to turn left and pushing to turn right instead of left to turn right and right to turn left as is "proper" for a tiller but that was my inexperience not the designe.

[landlocked sailor]

I believe it was 1998, and what the pictures fail to show was how unbelievably HOT it was at the show. Just looking at the pics makes me start to sweat! redface.gif Great memories just the same. Hopefully things will be cooler in July in Maine :cool: Rick

[Venchka]

Originally posted by landlocked sailor:
Hopefully things will be cooler in July in Maine :cool: RickI doubt the weather in Rockland could have been any better. Here's hoping for more of the same for this year's Show.

Launching a new boat in bad weather would be just awful. Right! Any weather is good weather for launching a new boat. See photos above.

I apologize. It sounds like I am beginning to gloat. Sorry. smile.gif

[Wild Dingo]

DON!!! Im in boatlust!!!... well Im always in that state but this is different! that Ness Yawl Highlander of yours! man what a gorgeous boat!!! :cool:

I hadnt really considered anything along those lines not seriously... but after seeing both these two I may just have to have a closer gander!! :cool: putting them into 3D sorta makes it a bit more impressive than the drawings on paper as nice as they are.

Well done on both counts mate~!

[Venchka]

To anyone contemplating building a Caledonia Yawl, this post on the Caledonia Yawl forum may be of interest:

Caledonia Plans (http://www.mavc2002.com/cyforum/viewtopic.php?t=117)

Enjoy!

[daddles]

Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
DON!!! Im in boatlust!!!... --snip-- I hadnt really considered anything along those lines not seriously... but after seeing both these two I may just have to have a closer gander!! Shane, just think of it as a canoethingy on steroids.

Lovely yawl this one - both the design and this particular example. It's on my 'want' list. :D Pity I've got to carry so many kids. :(

Cheers
Richard

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by daddles:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
[qb] It's on my 'want' list. :D Pity I've got to carry so many kids. :(

Cheers
Richardaaahhh Richard mate... hoons aint they wonnerful? ;) Ive only gotta carry 8 of them hoon citters and it dont faze me one bit!! :D dont let a wee thing such as a few hoons stop yer! tongue.gif go for it!! :cool:

[daddles]

aaahhh Richard mate... hoons aint they wonnerful? ;) Ive only gotta carry 8 of them hoon citters and it dont faze me one bit!! :D dont let a wee thing such as a few hoons stop yer! tongue.gif go for it!! :cool: [/QB]Eight's easy. It's obvious your average boatthingy's gunna need a big steroid prescription for that lot. I've only got 3, though the family matriach aspires to 8. The trouble with 3 is that it is possible to carry the lot on a boat smaller than the HMAS Flaminbigboatshapedthing and so I can't escape making one. So why is he starting with an 8 footer asked the goanna of the snake.
There is a Calendonian Yawl in my future.
The scary part is, the work area in my shed is 20' long while the CY is only 18'.
STOP IT! STOP IT! I don't need another potential project. (there's no smiley for screaming hysterically and running away)

Cheers
Richard

[LongJohn]

I hadnt really considered anything along those lines not seriously... but after seeing both these two I may just have to have a closer gander!! Shane -

The Caledonia Yawl might be a pretty good boat for you. I had the opportunity to sail in one a couple of months ago. It's a roomy boat - we had 4 adults and 3 kids and could have fit a couple more.

At the beginning of the sail there was hardly enough wind to fill the sails, but we made pretty good progress. By the end a storm was coming in with strong and gusty winds and that boat just picked up and flew. The push-pull tiller would take some getting used to, but it was effective and allows a lot of mobility for the helmsman.

It's evidently quite seaworthy, fairly easy to build, and drop dead gorgeous. What more could you want?

Seems to me you better get building something soon before the hoons start having hoons of their own. Let's see, 8 hoons with 8 hoons apiece, plus spouses - before you know it you'll be looking at accomodations for 75. :eek: That pile of lumber won't last too long building a boat that size. :D

- John

[daddles]

Four adults and three kids eh? Serious question - would you build a CY to use for 2 adults and 3 kids for coastal cruising?

Cheers
Richard

[LongJohn]

Richard -

I certainly won't claim to be an expert on the CY based on a 2 hour sail in sheltered waters, but I did find it to be a roomy and comfortable boat.

Think about it: even with decks fore and aft it has a cockpit 10 or 12 feet long and 4 to 6 feet wide. I'm not sure of the weight capacity, but the side benches are certainly long enough to provide seating for 10. As a camp-cruiser I would imagine it might be about like a station wagon or mini-van in terms of space for people and gear.

I would probably consider some sort of dodger up front to provide the kids with some shelter from the elements, and enclosed storage/bouyancy compartments to contain the clutter and provide flotation. But, yes, I could definitely picture cruising and camping out of a CY with my family. Plenty of elbow room, spartan accomodations, and the ability to get off the beaten track - all in a distinctive, beautiful and low-tech boat. Sounds like a great way to go! :cool:

- John

[Venchka]

For the record, Caledonia Yawl plans in hand, here are some specifics:

Sidebench length between bulkheads: 9'-3" (2.82M)

Displacement at D.W.L.: 1,300 pounds (591 Kg)

If you really watched the weight of materials, the all up weight of the boat, spars & sails could probably be kept in the range of 500-600 pounds.

[LongJohn]

Thanks for the clarification Wayne. I pictured the decks being somewhat shorter.

So what do you think - would this be a good boat for Daddles to take coastal cruising with his family?

How do you plan to use yours? As a daysailer? Cruiser? Inland lakes or salt water? How many people on board? I'm genuinely curious about the capabilities of this boat and how people are using it.

- John

[Venchka]

Originally posted by daddles:
Four adults and three kids eh? Serious question - would you build a CY to use for 2 adults and 3 kids for coastal cruising?

Cheers
RichardI'm building mine to accomodate myself, wife, daughter, son-in-law & two granddaughters (currently 5 & 1 years old) for daysailing. I will probably be alone for any serious coastal cruising adventures. The barrier islands off the Mississippi Coast are my first planned destinations.

Where will it be used? Anyplace I can tow it to and launch. In a perfect world, I expect someday to load the boat on a ferry, launch the boat at the far end of the ferry run and sail back to where I started. That will take more experience than I currently posses. For practice, I'll tow the boat around the Gulf of Mexico and to either east or west coast of North America.

That is the beauty of the boat. Load a herd of folks in it or sail it all by yourself. Sail wherever you please.

As for the space between bulkheads, there is some latitude in placing them. I only quoted the locations shown on the plans.

[Venchka]

Another Caledonia Yawl site of interest:

Caledonia Yawl "CRAZYBIRD" (http://www.mavc2002.com/caledoniayawl/index.html)

Ya'll have fun!

[nedL]

Very pretty! I do however think I'd set the steering stick arrangement up on the other side of hte mizzen (stbd.), then the steering would respond with the more typical forward = starboard & back = port. smile.gif I once had to operate a boat that was like this, its a scarry thing if you are used to the standard way, its kind of like trying to drive a car & having to turn the wheel left to go right. :eek:

[Venchka]

According to the plans, the arm holding the Norwegian tiller can be inserted into the rudder head from either side. I'll never know why these things have to be on one side only, but the plans and every photo I've seen place the tiller on the starboard side. Same goes for the balanced lug foresail. Who decided that the yard and boom have to be on the starboard side? Lines from a yoke forward could work but that arrangement would be from a different type of boat. The wishbone tiller works as well.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Putting the mainsail yard and boom on the mast's starboard side means that your "hindered" tack (the one where the sail is up against the mast and it's shape may be compromised a bit) will be starboard tack - where at least you have the right-of-way. It's generally not a big deal though.

[Wild Dingo]

Seems I recall seeing someone somewhere build the tiller so it went both sides of the mizzen and joined sorta imagine that single one but with exactly the same on the other side joind as one... did that make sence?... mmmm wonder where I saw that?? gawd so many boats!! :eek: :rolleyes:

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
Seems I recall seeing someone somewhere build the tiller so it went both sides of the mizzen and joined sorta imagine that single one but with exactly the same on the other side joind as one... did that make sence?... mmmm wonder where I saw that?? gawd so many boats!! :eek: :rolleyes: No more phone calls, folks, we have a winner. Right you are Dingo. The plans show the full wishbone tiller. Iain Oughtred built one for his personal Ness Yawl Jeannie Henderson. Don's Highlander has one too. The only catch with the full wishbone tiller is having to remove the mizzen to remove the tiller. Or mount the tiller first before stepping the mizzen.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid15/pd2917cfe0129e271cfbb72e80b243bb2/fde7687e.jpg

Thanks to Norm M. for the quick and easy instructions for adding images to the Forum.

Down Under, ya'll Aussies seem to go for the half wishbone solution.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/pictures/oughtred/whillyboat3.jpg

Either way works.

[ 05-21-2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[LongJohn]

Thanks Wayne. Please keep us posted on how it works out.

Don't forget to send photos.

- John

[Venchka]

John,

I will have every camera I own loaded and ready come launch day. My builder even tells me that there may be a 35' schooner available as a camera chase boat.

Assuming the paint is dry in time...

[Bill Perkins]

So...the designer chooses not to use the push pull tiller on his own boat ! LOL

[Todd Bradshaw]

This is a perfect application for my "WYSIWYG" steering system! You sit just in front of the mizzen facing dead forward and wearing a helmet. Then you take the loose end of the starboard-mounted steer-stick and duct tape it to the port side of your helmet. You steer by just turning your head and there you have it - "What You See Is Where You Go"! It's kind of the Red Green approach to sailing... plus, you are already wearing a helmet in case you get hit with the boom.

[Don Olney]

Name those Ness Yawl control lines please! This photo is from Iain Oughtred's Clinker Plywood Boatbuilding Manual.

"A" is obviously the main sheet.
"B" is what?
"C" is what?
"D" looks like the centerboard pennant although it might not be.

I have a downhaul to the foresail that corresponds to "B" in this photo. However, my downhaul is 1/4" three-strand (that's plenty) and goes forward to the mast partner. Iain has at least 3/8" here and it it not clear that this is even a downhaul. The line jogs down and then appears to go aft -- although it may actually be led through a deadeye down along the keelson and be heading forward. Hard to tell. Something is running in both directions.

"C" is cleated off like its not going anywhere anytime soon which lead me to wonder what it is since I have nothing corresponding to it (doesn't seem like anything's missing either!). Is it possible to run the main halyard back here? It would sure help when singlehanding.

On the other hand, if the centerboard is steel, perhaps "C" is the pennant as that small line at "D" would not be sufficient to hoist a 100lb board.

What say ye?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/padfbe5292fbde3613930f453787decce/fc1a2be9.jpg

[ 06-03-2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Don Olney ]