Looking for easy to build small planked boat

[JimD]

Epoxy is starting to seriously bug me so I'd like to try my luck at learning traditional planking. Nothing ambitous, just asking for design suggestions for a small rowing/sailing dingy to learn how to plank and caulk.

[Dave Fleming]

Do yer readin' first.
LFH in his Sensible Cruising Designs has some things to mull over, design wise.
David Goodchild on his very informative web site has a host of others.
The Atkins, father and son, have more.
Ed Monk, the senior, is yet another to peruse.
Plank on Frame, different mindset, but IMOOP very satisfying, soothing, quiet and the smells are ***Aces***.
The Designs are out there Laddy Buck so get lookin',folla?

[JimD]

Thanks, Dave. I think my woodworking skills will be up to it but do you think its possible to learn how to from a book or will it be necessary to apprentice at least for a plank or two to get started? I doubt if there is anybody in this neck of the woods who even owns, let alone builds planked boats.

[Bruce Taylor]

You can learn plank-on-frame from books, Jim.

The one for you, I think, is Greg Rossel's Building Small Boats.

As for the boat...can you be more specific about what you want? Lapstrake of carvel? Size limits? Sailing performance (is this a rowboat that can be sailed, or a sailer that can be rowed?). Decked, or open? Double ender or transom?

Whadddayalike?

[JimD]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
You can learn plank-on-frame from books, Jim.

The one for you, I think, is Greg Rossel's Building Small Boats.

As for the boat...can you be more specific about what you want? Lapstrake of carvel? Size limits? Sailing performance (is this a rowboat that can be sailed, or a sailer that can be rowed?). Decked, or open? Double ender or transom?

Whadddayalike?Thanks, Bruce. I'll look for Rossel's book. Ideally she would be a sailboat, not a rowboat, carvel, not lap, max length about 15 feet, but 12 or even 10 would be fine. Transomed, and a sweet one at that, not a double ender. Open, not decked, except for a possible small foredeck, and a single sail, either a simple lug rig, or perhaps a cat, either bermuda or gaff though I'd lean toward a gaffer because I have no experience with them and wouldn't mind learning.

[Dave Fleming]

This is the craft I learned to sail on. Might fit your requirements.
It is a Phil Rhodes design and the plans might be with Mystic or the Rhodes office.
IRRC, Jersey White Cedar on steam bent Oak frames.
Dead simple rig, very forgiving, plenty of room for several adults.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p81491290e201a0c8a1de89227a613c8c/fc12c32b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p690bb576dd1be72050c8bba65191895e/fc12c322.jpg

Apology for size/detail of second image. This computer neophyte converted a PDF to a JPEG for Imagestation, sigh...

[ 05-26-2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Wild Dingo]

Love the name!! :D :D

[ishmael]

Alden's O boat might be a bit more of project than you're looking for, but they're great, able daysailors. A little over fifteen foot if memory serves.

So much for memory, 18'2" overall. But what a lovely boat! Plans available from WB. I think. ;)

http://www.chipboat.com/oboatb.html

[ 05-26-2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[JimD]

Thanks, Jack. Took a look at the link, nice boat alright, but a little more than I'm after. Wood pussy still in first place! Gawd. Could I really build a boat named Wood Pussy???? :rolleyes:

[Bruce Taylor]

I haven't given up, Jim...just thinking.

My first thought was Catspaw...but that's probably too rowboaty for you. Second thought, Marsh Cat, which can be built in carvel...but that's a biggish boat for its length. Nathanael Herreshoff's Biscayne Bay 14' 5" crossed my mind...I'll have to look up the specs & see if it's appropriate.

Are you quite sure you want a carvel-planked boat? They tend to be less happy on a trailer than trad. lapstrake or batten-seam...something to consider, if you want to sail her dry. Also, just about any glued lap. design can be adapted for traditional clinker (which expands your choices a bit).

How do you feel about flat-bottomed sailing skiffs?

I'll dig out some books this eve and see what I find.

[Ken Hutchins]

Traditional planking is FUN. smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[rbgarr]

Wood pussy is, I think, another name for pussywillow, a furry flower that blooms in very early spring in the Northeast US, although I doubt that the boat clas was named with the flower in mind.

Any one of Nathanael Herreshoff's post-1901 Columbia-model tenders (10'-15'), rigged for sail, would be a choice to consider, especially in the larger sizes if built carvel. They were designed to be easily planked. The Catspaw is derived from that design, I believe, so WB's Catspaw booklet/video and Barry Thomas' booklet 'Building the Herreshoff Dinghy' put out by Mystic Seaport would help.

An earlier small daysailing design was N.G. Herreshoff's most used personal boat, according to his diaries, the 1887(9?) COQUINA, a mostly open lapstrake cat-yawl. She was kept ready to sail at his dock until the 1938 hurricane swept her away. Classic Watercraft (or is it Boats?) magazine ran an article recently on a reproduction of that boat. She looked like a honey, although a bit more difficult to plank because of the more vertical stem.

[ishmael]

Are plans for the Beetle Cat available? Another really fine little boat. My ex-wife had an old one that was leaky and probably hadn't had her rigging renewed since built, but we sailed that boat hard, in lots of different weather. Nice for two adults. Throw in an extra adult or a couple kids in a pinch.

Bruce's points about dry sailing are true. If the boat won't live in the water for the season you might want to look for a lap design. Maybe one of Gardner's dory skiffs, from THE DORY BOOK. The fourteen is pretty nice I think.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
I haven't given up, Jim...just thinking.

My first thought was Catspaw...but that's probably too rowboaty for you. Second thought, Marsh Cat, which can be built in carvel...but that's a biggish boat for its length. Nathanael Herreshoff's Biscayne Bay 14' 5" crossed my mind...I'll have to look up the specs & see if it's appropriate.

Are you quite sure you want a carvel-planked boat? They tend to be less happy on a trailer than trad. lapstrake or batten-seam...something to consider, if you want to sail her dry. Also, just about any glued lap. design can be adapted for traditional clinker (which expands your choices a bit).

How do you feel about flat-bottomed sailing skiffs?

I'll dig out some books this eve and see what I find.Thanks for all your hard work, Bruce. I'd consider lap but would prefer not to go there just yet. Batten seam would work. I'll build a pool to keep it wet in if I have to. Gotta get away from epoxy, the stuff's killin' me.

[rbgarr]

I don't think plans for the Beetle Cat are available. The boats are still being built and sold. The builder has a pattern for just about every piece of the boat, as well as a jig to mold the hull over, therefore, no plans are needed.

The Bobcat design was made available in order to meet the market for homebuilders who wanted something very like the Beetle, I think.

I owned a Beetle Cat when I was in my early teens and they were great boats to learn on, especially the sail trim with all the various adjustments to throat, peak and gaff outhaul tension to consider. The shallow rudder (like the Wood-Pussy's) also prevented easy capsizes because the rudder would lose purchase on the water when the boat heeled too much, thus rounding up into the wind. The only time I capsized was when I jibed once in heavy winds and the mainsheet wrapped around the tiller (and me!) so I couldn't get up to windward.

[Bruce Taylor]

Here's something intriguing, if you'll consider lapstrake...an 11' 5" Gunter-Rigged Sailing Dinghy by L. Francis Herreshoff...cedar on steamed oak frames, tamarack stem, etc.

It appears in Sensible Cruising Designs, with the following comment:

"This is a high-performance boat, the kind of dinghy that wants to be sailed flat to windward by the crew hiking out (note the hiking stick on the tiller) and that will plane in a good breeze once the sheet is started. There is little in her underbody to hold her back, and her wide, flat quarters help keep her upright and at her best. She is small enough to row well, and would make a good cruising dinghy for a larger boat...The original idea behind this design was to start a racing class, beginning with five boats, one of which was to be sailed by the designer."

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p63fbac83b1ebb3ae5ab070282102f119/fc11bf9c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p71be896b737f773653c943effb797fcf/fc11bfa4.jpg

[ 05-26-2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[JimD]

Originally posted by ishmael:
Are plans for the Beetle Cat available? Another really fine little boat. My ex-wife had an old one that was leaky and probably hadn't had her rigging renewed since built, but we sailed that boat hard, in lots of different weather. Nice for two adults. Throw in an extra adult or a couple kids in a pinch.

Bruce's points about dry sailing are true. If the boat won't live in the water for the season you might want to look for a lap design. Maybe one of Gardner's dory skiffs, from THE DORY BOOK. The fourteen is pretty nice I think.I just took a look at the Beetle Cat. That would be just about perfect. But can you buy the plans anywhere to build her yourself?

[JimD]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
Here's something intriguing...an 11' 5" Gunter-Rigged Sailing Dinghy by L. Francis Herreshoff. It appears in Sensible Cruising Designs, with the following comment:

"This is a high-performance boat, the kind of dinghy that wants to be sailed flat to windward by the crew hiking out (note the hiking stick on the tiller) and that will plane in a good breeze once the sheet is started. There is little in her underbody to hold her back, and her wide, flat quarters help keep her upright and at her best. She is small enough to row well, and would make a good cruising dinghy for a larger boat...The original idea behind this design was to start a racing class, beginning with five boats, one of which was to be sailed by the designer."

Nice, Bruce, but I only hike in the mountains :D Getting too old for that sort of thing. A beamy cat I think would be best.

[Bruce Taylor]

Jim, I think Beetle, Inc. is the sole builder of Beetle cats.

How about Marsh Cat, then? 15' LOA, beam 6' 11", trailerable, Sail area 153 sq. feet.

http://www.alongshore.com/boatshop/designs/drawing-marshcat.gif

BTW, what's your objection to traditional lapstrake? It's just as "googeless" as carvel, but is a little easier to do (no caulking, and spiling can be less precise) and tends to make for a lighter boat as well. Is it the clinker look you don't like?

[ 05-26-2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[daddles]

If you read through Iain Oughtred's catalogue, you'll note that many of his plans come as glued ply or traditional. I've read articles where people have corresponded with him on building his boats as traditional clinker and he's always been rated as helpful and easy to talk to - mind you, that might be because those who got burnt aren't talking.

So, remembering that I've no personal experience in this area, might I suggest you give Iain's designs a look. At least you'll know how the basic design works in plywood if you can't find someone who's done it in 'real' timber.

Cheers
Richard
who has a horrid feeling he too will follow this route one day :eek:

[JimD]

BTW, what's your objection to traditional lapstrake? It's just as "googeless" as carvel, but is a little easier to do (no caulking, and spiling can be less precise) and tends to make for a lighter boat as well. Is it the clinker look you don't like?

...

I somehow had the idea lapstrake might be trickier to build. I don't really like the look as much in general but I suppose if I saw the right one, then maybe.

[CK 17]

Jim,

take a look at the riverside dingy. It was built over 3 issues in woodenboat last summer. It's 11 and a half feet, hard chines and batten seem construction. Over 3 issues of WB there are about 100 photos--step by step. It don't get any easier than that. Of course I planked it with plywood and covered it with glass and epoxy :D

BTW aren't you the guy who was building the Amego??

If you are, how's it going?

Joe Schena

[JimD]

Originally posted by joe schena:
Jim,

take a look at the riverside dingy. It was built over 3 issues in woodenboat last summer. It's 11 and a half feet, hard chines and batten seem construction. Over 3 issues of WB there are about 100 photos--step by step. It don't get any easier than that. Of course I planked it with plywood and covered it with glass and epoxy :D

BTW aren't you the guy who was building the Amego??

If you are, how's it going?

Joe SchenaI'll dig up the back issues. And yes, I am the guy slooowly building Amigo, and already not looking forward to being up to my alligators in epoxy over the next couple years finishing her. Oh well, :cool:

[CK 17]

The Amigo is a good looking boat. Just keep plugging away. I also started the Riverside in order to get away from epoxy. Guess what?? I found just as many hazards with traditional boat building: bedding compound, wood dust and shavings, paint, paint thinner and primer, whirling power tools--all nasty stuff. The safety precautions for these things are the same as for epoxy: Don't breath it, don't get it on your skin. Plus, the price of cedar around here is about a gazilion dollars a BF :eek: Screw it tongue.gif !! I'll follow tradition where I am able, but Plywood and epoxy is wonderful stuff :cool: . I look forward to seeing pictures of the Amigo.

Joe Schena

[ 05-26-2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: joe schena ]

[Bruce Taylor]

On the theme of small catboats, here's something from the collection at Mystic.

It's a spritsail catboat...13' 6" X 6', w/ no deck & coaming. 2 Drawings, batten-seam and conventional plank on frame.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p7f0cb9373e21b5ab20668b3815331737/fc10ac18.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p7379f371099b0d9c69e34e47545842c5/fc10ac16.jpg

Mystic also has drawings for the Brutal Beast class...undecked catboat, 13' 6" X 6' 2".

Also from Mystic, a very cute Frostbite dinghy by Winthrop Warner (11' 6" X 4' 6"...plumb stem and transom, lapstrake) and the Indian River class sloop (13' 6" % 5' 10", hard chined, similar to Blue Jay class).

Or, if you're open to lapstrake, a 13' Melonseed skiff will give you that pretty wineglass transom in an elegant, light-weight package (as little as 140 lbs). Very cool.

If any of these raise your interest, I'll post pics. Of course, practicality speaks to the Riverside, which is so well documented; but it's fun to daydream.

[ 05-27-2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[JimD]

I like the catboat idea, Bruce. Think I'll give the Riverside a miss, not really interested in a boxy hard chine.

Here's an idea: I have the Bolger/Payson instant catboat book. She's a 12 ft plywood multichine with offsets for cookie cutter plywood bulkheads for frames. Doesn't look like it would be too difficult to just round the corners off the hard chines, notch in battens all around, and batten seam plank her. Whaddaya think?

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
On the theme of small catboats, here's something from the collection at Mystic.

It's a spritsail catboat...13' 6" X 6', w/ no deck & coaming. 2 Drawings, batten-seam and conventional plank on frame.Actually, strictly speaking they're not catboats. The type is known as a "Woods Hole Spritsail Boat". The type hails from (oddly) Woods Hole, Massachussets. The boat whose profile provided above looks, to my eye, to be Spy.

I can tell you from experience that these boats rock.

They're great sailors (The Center For Wooden Boats (http://www.cwb.org/) has two of them in the rental fleet).

http://www.cwb.org/images_boats/woodshole.jpg (http://www.cwb.org/)

Woods Hole spritsail boats are [relatively] fast, they point high, and they're fast off the wind. They're stable and they can carry quite a payload.

Woods Hole spritsail boats were originally used for inshore for fishing and lobstering. The 'normal' rig was as a sprit-rigged cat ketch and could be rowed or sailed. The more modern rig (developed as the boats became popular for racing) is a simple cat spritsail rig with a very long sprit—longer than the boat. You're not going to be striking the rig and stowing the spars in the boat. The only practial way to row it would be to set up a brail on the rig, and then you'd be pushing a lot of windage around.

Mystic has plans for several different Woods Hole spritsail boats, including these three:</font> ExplorerWoods Hole, spritsail boat (13')
Crosby (designer)
Crosby (builder)
3 sheets: lines, construction, offsets, sail,
order no. 60.196</font> SpyWoods Hole, spritsail boat (13')
4 sheets: lines, construction, offsets, modified lines and offsets, sail & spars
order no. Misc. 35</font> Susie
Woods Hole, spritsail boat (13')
Swift, E.E. (designer)
Swift, E.E. (builder)
3 sheets: lines, construction, offsets, sail, spars
order no. 86.32</font>I'm not sure how suitable it would be for a first-time builder. The garboards have a hell of a twist to them up forward.

[ 05-27-2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

[Bruce Taylor]

Great stuff, Nicholas...especially the info on spars & rowing.

Actually, the boat pictured is Swift's Susie. In their book, the Brays do identify it as a Woods Hole Spritsail boat, but I lumped it in with the cats 'cause that what Jim likes. smile.gif

[JimD]

So Bruce, what about my hare brained idea to batten seam the instant catboat?

[DugT]

This is the next boat I've decided to build--the Inishmore 10 at the bottom of this page:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Otherupto10.htm

Just got the plans today...coincidently, it looks a lot like the Woods Hole Spritsail boats you showed Nicholas, except maybe the spar is shorter. I'm building this boat to learn to sail in...think it will be a good boat to learn in?

[holzbt]

William and John Atkin designed a 14'x 5'10" catboat named "CATNIP". It is round bottom with a marconi rig very similar to a woodpussy, just slightly longer. The complete building plans and instructions are printed in volume 23 of Motor Boating's Ideal Series "Up-To-Date Designs For Motor And Sail Craft".

[Bruce Taylor]

I suppose you could do it, Jim. The Bobcat plans include lines and offsets, I think, which would simplify the work. You'd have to come up with your own scantlings, though, and the framing would take a fair bit of figgerin'.

It seems like a waste of effort, to me. Bobcat was an attempt to render the Beetle cat in plywood. Bolger sacrificed some of the refinement of the Beetle (the fine forefoot, for example) in order to approximate the hull form w/ sheet goods. Since you're interested in conventional planking you don't have to make this sort of compromise. Rounding the chines won't restore the hull to its original form...you'd just be making a translation of a translation. Better to build one of the other small catboats, I think.

Anyway, isn't Bobcat a decked boat? (But maybe there's an option for building it "open"?) And Bolger himself doesn't seem particularly enamoured of the type, calling the Beetle a "living fossil" and commenting that he's "always thought the Beetle Cat would be more boat for the money if it were stretched out 3 feet on the same breadth and depth."

[ishmael]

Hey, here's an idea. If what you want is some experience with traditional construction why not a small sharpie, with cabin? For not much more time you'd have a boat you could do some cruising in. It wouldn't be quite the education a round bottom hull with steam bent frames would be, but you'd still learn a lot.

[JimD]

Bruce, you're right about the instant boat idea ending up as translation of a translation of a beetle. Not such a good idea. I think what I really want is a beetle. The steam bending thing is a big stumbling block. I don't have a steam table, don't want to buy or build one at the moment and don't have any place to put one. I suppose I could laminate frames with epoxy, something I'd rather avoid, but I have eleven gallons of raka in the basement and at least I wouldn't be gougeing the whole boat. Ish, thanks for the sharpie suggestion but what I'm after is about 12 planked feet of nice curves and plenty of stability.

[ishmael]

The steam bending thing is a big stumbling block. Shouldn't be. Cheap and easy to build a steam box.

[Bruce Taylor]

What Jack said...steam is the least of your worries.

Mystic has some catboats in your size range.

Button Swan
Newport catboat (12')
Swan, Button (designer)
3 sheets: lines, construction, offsets, sail,
order no. 49.145

Sanshee
Cape Cod catboat (14')
Anderson, Charles A. (designer)
Anderson, Charles A. (builder)
1 sheet: lines, construction, sail,
order no. 70.646

Snarlyow
Cat-rig, Cutter hull (15') image
Harvey, John (designer)
Smith, John (builder)
1 sheet: lines, offsets,
order no. 52.498

Trio
Cape Cod catboat (15')
Crosby, Wilton (designer)
Crosby, Wilton (builder)
3 sheets: lines, construction, offsets, spar plan
order no. 60.499

That Button Swan boat looks interesting. It turns up in the R. H. Baker catalogue (he took off the lines). You can look at it and read about it here: http://www.by-the-sea.com/bakerboatworks/pdf/catboats.pdf

[JimD]

Bruce, I tried to open that link but couldn't. Anyway, you guys have just about got me convinced I can do this. I tried the searchy tool for a home made steam table, couldn't find it, but I remember there was a thread on the subject last year maybe.

So if steaming will be the least of my worries, what, pray tell, will be the biggest :eek: (please don't say busting a lot of expensive oak while trying to bend it)

[Bruce Taylor]

It's a PDF link...slow. I think you need Acrobat reader to view it.

It sounds like you're visualizing a fancy apparatus, like the yuppie steam-bending table that Lee Valley sells, w/ brass dogs and backing straps, and so on.

You don't need any of that stuff.

Depending on the style of construction, yr. frames will either be bent over the station moulds or into the planked boat. The steaming is done in that miracle of medieval engineering, the Steam Box.

You can nail one of these together from any scrap wood you have lying around. Just make a crude box, wide and long enough to hold your stock. If it is crooked and ugly and full of gaps, so much the better.

Cap one end of the box, but not the other (when you're ready to use the box just stuff it with rags, or old socks, or a Tilley hat). Run a piece of radiator hose from a hole in the box to the spout of a kettle (a few turns of duct tape will seal the deal). If it's an electric kettle, you're in business. Otherwise, put the kettle on a Coleman stove, or hotplate, or whatever you've got, and there's your steam.

When you break a piece of wood, that's just God's way of telling you it had too much grain-runout to use in yr. nice little sailboat.

So what's the hardest part? Good question...I guess I'd say lofting and cutting the keel rabbet...or hanging the garboards. Hmmm.

[Gerry S.]

Steam bending is easy. We don't do it to make things difficult, we do it to make it easy to bend wood!

And you don't want a steam table (that's what they keep the food hot on in a buffet) - you need a steam box. There was an article about home made steam boxes in WB some time ago.

Carvel is much more challenging than clinker. Planks must fit together closely over their whole length, which requires considerable skill. Furthermore, you have to back out your planks where there is a lot of curvature in the sections (i.e. at the turn of the bilge). This requires specialised tools and more expertise. It's all explained in Rossel's book.

My advice is to start with clinker. Planks overlap so there isn't the same precision required in spiling and fitting. Also, no backing out is required.

Cheers,

Gerry S.

[JimD]

...spent the afternoon butchering a little more wood for a plywood utility outboard. Ok, now I hear the Mission Impossible theme song - Your mission, Jim, should you decide to accept it - so I'm less likely to waste as much wood with clinker? Sounds like a plan to me, guess now I need to find a 12 foot clinker cat boat. Sorry for making you all do so much work :D . Any suggestions?

[holzbt]

Charles Wittholz designed an 11' catboat. (It is sort of a cross between a catboat and a fat whitehall.)I think it was designed for cold molding but I have seen photo's of several lapstrake ones. WB sells the plans. I'd also really try to take a look at Atkin's "CATNIP" if I were you. The slight increase in length and decrease in beam will make it a bit easier to plank. All of these small catboats could be built lapstrake, but don't scare yourself off so quickly from carvel. It is not really harder than lapsrake, just different and anyone who is motivated enough should be able to do it from a few good books and maybe a few ?'s on the forum.

[Bruce Taylor]

Button Swan is clinker...if I knew how to lift the picture from that .pdf I'd post it here.

[DugT]

Check out the 13' Woodlark on this page:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Other1013.htm#CAT

I have the plans for this boat and hope to build it someday in the not-too-distant future. The mold shapes are given for both cedar strip and clinker-ply. Two sail plans are shown--a single gaff sail and a gaff-sloop version with the mast in a tabernacle. If you can go to 14', check out the Duette catboat, I think it's on the pocket cruiser page. BTW, I have no affiliation to Selway-Fisher, I just like some of his small boats.

[ErikH]

hmm. so now that you're on to clinker, what about a dory form rather than a cat? Or even something like an Indian, which will sail like the dickens and still be reasonably easy to build. Unlike your typical cat, they can actually be rowed and are often lighter and simpler to trailer.

Just don't try a Haven 12 1/2, they're notoriously difficult.

[JimD]

Originally posted by rbgarr:
Wood pussy is, I think, another name for pussywillow, a furry flower that blooms in very early spring in the Northeast US, although I doubt that the boat clas was named with the flower in mind.

Any one of Nathanael Herreshoff's post-1901 Columbia-model tenders (10'-15'), rigged for sail, would be a choice to consider, especially in the larger sizes if built carvel. They were designed to be easily planked. The Catspaw is derived from that design, I believe, so WB's Catspaw booklet/video and Barry Thomas' booklet 'Building the Herreshoff Dinghy' put out by Mystic Seaport would help.

An earlier small daysailing design was N.G. Herreshoff's most used personal boat, according to his diaries, the 1887(9?) COQUINA, a mostly open lapstrake cat-yawl. She was kept ready to sail at his dock until the 1938 hurricane swept her away. Classic Watercraft (or is it Boats?) magazine ran an article recently on a reproduction of that boat. She looked like a honey, although a bit more difficult to plank because of the more vertical stem.rbgarr and Dave, I searched 'wood pussy sail boat' and found the home page of the National Wood Pussy Class Association. Apparently a wood pussy is a skunk - presumably since its a furry cat sized animal that lives in the woods. The NWPCA also apparently has exculsive rights to licence building her in wood, tho it doesn't look like any have been built in a long time.

[Bruce Taylor]

BTW, have you looked at Joel White's Catspaw?

[JimD]

Bruce, I finally got a look at the 12 foot Button Swan, quite nice looking, as for the Cats Paw, maybe, I really find myself leaning toward a very small gaff rigged catboat, not much more than 12 feet. Its all I have room to build.

[JimD]

Originally posted by holzbt:
Charles Wittholz designed an 11' catboat. (It is sort of a cross between a catboat and a fat whitehall.)I think it was designed for cold molding but I have seen photo's of several lapstrake ones. WB sells the plans. I'd also really try to take a look at Atkin's "CATNIP" if I were you. The slight increase in length and decrease in beam will make it a bit easier to plank. All of these small catboats could be built lapstrake, but don't scare yourself off so quickly from carvel. It is not really harder than lapsrake, just different and anyone who is motivated enough should be able to do it from a few good books and maybe a few ?'s on the forum.holzbt, I really like the lines and size of the Wittholz boat, wonder how hard it would be as a first boat to plank as the brief description in WB Store doesn't even mention a building method. Looked for Catnip but couldn't find a line drawing anywhere.

[JimD]

Originally posted by holzbt:
Charles Wittholz designed an 11' catboat. (It is sort of a cross between a catboat and a fat whitehall.)I think it was designed for cold molding but I have seen photo's of several lapstrake ones. WB sells the plans. I'd also really try to take a look at Atkin's "CATNIP" if I were you. The slight increase in length and decrease in beam will make it a bit easier to plank. All of these small catboats could be built lapstrake, but don't scare yourself off so quickly from carvel. It is not really harder than lapsrake, just different and anyone who is motivated enough should be able to do it from a few good books and maybe a few ?'s on the forum.Does anyone out there is forumland have a copy of Fifty Wooden Boats? I want to find out if the study plans for Wittholz's 11 foot cat dinghy show a traditional keel with rabbet or will I have to sort that part out for myself if I purchase the plans and try to build her traditional plank?

[Wayne Jeffers]

Jim,

I have a copy at home. If no one else responds here, send me an e-mail so I'll remember to look it up this evening.

As I remember, the information in the book includes very little specifics about such detail, so the answer may not help much.

Wayne

[Bruce Taylor]

Construction: Cold-moulded

Alternative cosntruction: none

Plans show a keelson, but, as far as I can see, no keel.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
Construction: Cold-moulded

Alternative cosntruction: none

Plans show a keelson, but, as far as I can see, no keel.Rats. And she's my favourite of the lot. Maybe I'll try anyway. I figure the worst that's likely to happen is I totally mess up in which case I'd glue her all up and encapsulate and still have a nice boat, or does this sound like another one of my not so dazzling ideas?

[ishmael]

Hmm. From what I can tell of your skills Jim, I don't think I'd try to adapt this design from molded to carvel. I've been involved in going the other way in a small round hulled design, and it ain't that easy...and I think that's the easier way to go. Can be done, but...

[holzbt]

Converting an 11' boat to carvel or lapstrake construction isn't quite rocket science. For carvel I'd use 1/2" planking. That seems to work quite well on Beetle cats and anything much thinner is difficult to caulk. For lap try 3/8" to 1/2" depending on lumber type and how you plan on using the boat. Steam bent frames should be about 3/4" square if planning on using screws as thinner one will not have enough holding for screws. If using rivets you could go a bit thinner and maybe wider. The keel thickness can be determined when you loft the boat. You need enough thickness to allow for the rabbet and fastenings. Look at plans for other similar size boats and use that for reference.

Donn will try to post some lines for "CATNIP" when he gets a chance.

[JimD]

Originally posted by holzbt:
Converting an 11' boat to carvel or lapstrake construction isn't quite rocket science. For carvel I'd use 1/2" planking. That seems to work quite well on Beetle cats and anything much thinner is difficult to caulk. For lap try 3/8" to 1/2" depending on lumber type and how you plan on using the boat. Steam bent frames should be about 3/4" square if planning on using screws as thinner one will not have enough holding for screws. If using rivets you could go a bit thinner and maybe wider. The keel thickness can be determined when you loft the boat. You need enough thickness to allow for the rabbet and fastenings. Look at plans for other similar size boats and use that for reference.

Donn will try to post some lines for "CATNIP"
when he gets a chance.This sounds like a plan. I'd go for lapstrake, strakes on the thin side towards 3/8", probably easier for me to fit and easier to convert to glued lap if necessary.

Donn, thanks for looking for Catnip.

[holzbt]

If you are going to use glued plywood lapstrake construction I'd think that 1/4" would be sufficient. You could probably even skip all but a few frames. Once again look at plans of similar sized boats for guidance. I think that a one time forum member (Dave Thibadeou?, I'm sure that spelling is incorrect.) built one in lapped ply. Perhaps an archive search will turn something up.

[holzbt]

Dave Thibodeau, member #543, built a marconi, strip planked daggerboard version. I know I've seen pic's of lap versions of this boat but can't remember where. I just did a search using "Wittholz" and turned up several posts dealing with this design. I'm sure an e-mail to Dave Thibodeau would also be worthwhile.

[JimD]

Originally posted by holzbt:
If you are going to use glued plywood lapstrake construction I'd think that 1/4" would be sufficient. You could probably even skip all but a few frames. Once again look at plans of similar sized boats for guidance. I think that a one time forum member (Dave Thibadeou?, I'm sure that spelling is incorrect.) built one in lapped ply. Perhaps an archive search will turn something up.Gluing is only plan B. I intend to build traditional plank, no plywood. As it will be a learning experience I will glue only if my work turns out to be so shoddy the only way to salvage her is with liberal application of epoxy. Hopefully it won't come to that.

[Wild Dingo]

I thought Id take it upon meself to post the pdf pics of the catboats from the by the sea site (http://www.by-the-sea.com/bakerboatworks/pdf/catboats.pdf) Bruce led us to so we all know what were talking about :cool:

1) button swan

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pb28b7e4769e641a083550c900f37fb8c/fc090f02.jpg

2) catboat

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p99cd97caf1a351925f756377d07bb0e4/fc090eff.jpg

2) Penguin

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pfbf0acc489ca51624114fb6f2ed9f14e/fc090f00.jpg

3) Kingfisher II

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p3362265d9b4da5eb6051c68fc4f9d05b/fc090efc.jpg

4) Nowak

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pd7c10f314ef9d63e504fcfb7868289b4/fc090efa.jpg

5) Peggotty

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/paa4ca882941c7f21d8a8a4050585be80/fc090ef8.jpg

Interestingly Im quite taken by Nowak as she would fit within the road trailering limits... maybe one for Roger Stouff who was at one time looking for just such as her without cabin or even Kingfisher II with a mast hinge for lowering should be able to be trailered {note here no mention is made of the weight of the boats! which could have an impact depending on vehicle used}

[ 05-31-2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Donn]

CATNIP

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p98185fcc36c4a3daa095d50f311e632c/fc08e73b.jpg

For a larger view, click here, (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290037893&congratulation_page=Y) click on "Enter" then click on the image.

[ishmael]

Holbzt is right, it isn't rocket science. But I think you are going to be adding a different twist into a new project, a project you are uncertain of to begin with, by converting from cold-moulded to either lapstrake or carvel. Just different, more work, something that might be a hurdle. 'Not rocket science' is the statement of one who knows the ins and outs of lofting, and construction.

Better, from what you've said, to build a boat as it was designed.

My two cents.

[JimD]

Ordered the plans for Wittholz dinghy five minutes ago so I expect I have a week to 10 days to get the plywood panels on the utility frame and make way for the little gaffer.

[JimD]

Ooops, posted that last comment before I was done talkin'. Jack, I hear ya, but I figure the worst that's gonna happen is I waste a few boards of perfectly good wood and still end up with spiffy glued boat :D When the sirens call... :cool: