Centerboard Plywood Ketch or Schooner wanted

[JimD]

Anyone ever come across plans for such a craft? I'm thinking something like this 22 foot Ted Brewer design, nothing bigger, dory hull or chined V-bottom, only with a CB to minimize draft and trailer easily. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid163/p6cd289db93c65fe0423d1abae0cb673e/f4977590.jpg or perhaps a smaller version of this 27 foot Glen-L sharpie http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid163/pf04df80605d93053441e23e2d816fbb4/f48dae96.jpg

She would have three sails including a sizable jib, so no cat/ketch or cat/schooners please. And a cabin with at least sitting headroom.

[JimD]

Originally posted by MIke:
I have a set of the Chessie Flyer plans, that went to to a free unfinished hull from a Marine that was building it in his garage and was transfered to the west coat of California. But I did not have a trailer to haul it at the time. So he trashed it.A sad tale, MIke. :( I also like the look of Glen-L's smaller sharpie, Fancy Free, which is the size I'd be interested in but it is sloop rigged, and I have a pretty good idea what Glen-L would say if I asked them to redraw the sail plan with a mizzen (they'd say 'no' :D )

[Venchka]

Too bad this one doesn't have a centerboard.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/FlorenceOakland-4.gif http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/FlorenceOakland-3.gif http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/FlorenceOakland-2.gif

Florence Oakland (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/FlorenceOakland.html)

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Steve Paskey]

You had me stumped for a minute, then it came to me: Jay Benford's Gunkholer:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/spaskey/gunkholer2.jpg

She's 22 feet LOA, with a board-up draft of 1'4". There are six alternative sail plans, including a jib-headed ketch with a gaff sail for both the main and mizzen. (Pretty much the same as above, but with a gaff sail aft as well.)

A few other details. Beam is 8-0, and she has tandem centerboards, fore and aft, that keep the cabin clear and allow for precise control of balance. (The forward board is under the v-berth; the aft under the self-draining cockpit. The plans show several interior layouts, and a v-bottom hull with keel using the same topsides.

There's a write up in Boat Design Quarterly no. 10. Benford has a web site with contact info, but no further info on this design. See www.benford.us (http://www.benford.us)

[ 04-07-2005, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[TonyH]

Jim

I'd start by looking at the hull for "Lagoon" by William Atkin - 21 feet long or so.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/Lagoon-3.gif

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/Lagoon-2.gif

Atkin then based a second design, "Milford" on this one, but gave it a fin keel and a very nice little gaff ketch rig.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/Milford-1.gif

Soooooo, putting the "Lagoon" hull and the "Milford" rig together should give pretty much what you want.

[JimD]

Steve, thanks for the tip on the Benford boat. Too bad there's not more on the website. Where did you get the drawing from?

TonyH, I really like the look of the Atkin boat. I wonder if it could really be as easy as switching the rig. The write up on Lagoon says nothing about the ballast and Milford looks like there is substantially more to it below the water line, as in bigger, heavier keel than the centerboard Lagoon. Perhaps I'll ask the vendor if the rigs can be switched the way they can with the Onion/Oats boats.

[JimJ]

Jim

Have a look at a Hartley TS21

http://www.trailer-sailer.com/

JimJ

[Steve Paskey]

Jim D -- I took a digital photo of my copy of BDQ 10. (My scanner's in a box somewhere.) The article on Gunkholer is 4 pages and shows the lines of the hull as well as most of the alternate rigs, the deck plan, and one interior layout.

As it happens, I somehow managed to buy *two* copies of that issue by mistake. If you're interested, send me your address via private message, and I'll put one in the mail, gratis.

[ 04-07-2005, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Thad Van Gilder]

What about Gary Clemmons Bahama Mama?

I always wanted to build one of them myself.

-Thad

[Venchka]

The problem with ketch and schooner rigs on short boats is that there is not always a good place to stick the sticks. Trying to plop Milford's rig on Lagoon is going to open a whole big can of worms. Might be easier to stick Lagoon's centerboard in Milford. Milford's cabin looks more liveable too.

OK, Mr. JimD says he doesn't want a cat-ketch or pirogue rig. I wonder why?

Quote by me last year:


I remember a cat ketch that cleaned up in the S.O.R.C. (a big time big bucks offshore sailing series around south Florida) one year. Beat the socks off of all the mega bucks marconi rigged spinnaker flying sloops. The rig was promptly outlawed. There must be some truth to the rig's efficiency and ease of handling.Anyway, it's a useful rig on small boats.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[JimD]

Originally posted by Steve Paskey:
Jim D... As it happens, I somehow managed to buy *two* copies of that issue by mistake. If you're interested, send me your address via private message, and I'll put one in the mail, gratis.Steve, see your private messages :D

[JimD]

Wayne, this may sound like a really lame reason for wanting a jib headed ketch or schooner but I hate tying off reef points especially while under way in a small boat. So I'm entertaining the idea of a three sail rig that balances nicely with only two of the three. And if the boat is small so that the total sail plan is, say under 250 square feet you'd not have any given sail larger than perhaps 100 sq ft which to my way of thinking would be so managable I'd likely never find myself with a sail problem I couldn't solve with little more than the muscle in my arm (and there's not much of that, either :D ) So I don't want a large main to have to deal with, worse case senario being, for example, a twenty or so foot catboat with a single 300 plus sq ft sail to be reefing.

Thad, Bahama Mama is way too big.

JimJ, I didn't realize the Hartley TS 21 was available as anything but a sloop. Did I miss something?

[ 04-08-2005, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Dave Hadfield]

Does it have to be double-ended? That makes it a lot harder to mount an engine. At that boat size an outboard makes sense, and without a transom you have to use a removeable side-bracket and you'll always be clamping the motor on or taking the thing off.

Heck, I'd enjoy having a whirl at designing something like this. I've had it in the back of my mind anyway. That's a practical length -- 22ft is 3 plywood-lengths long, allowing for side curvature and scarfing. I have the "Plyboats" program and I've designed and built 2 boats from it that worked out well.

I'd like to go down the Mackenzie in a boat like this, and also have it seaworthy enough to wander onto Great Slave Lake.

So, the wish list:

-22ft long,
-plywood,
-flat or shallow V bottom for ease of tailering
-2 masts with jib,
-comfortable sitting headroom
-large hatch, to stand and pull your pants up.
-water ballast, to ease in trailering
-able to right from a knockdown to 90 degrees
-centerboard(s)
-sleeping space for 2

You want a cockpit, right? Otherwise Bolger's Birdwatcher satisfies a lot of the requirements. Cheaply, too. So do Michalak's Jewelboxes/Jukeboxes.

[PVanderwaart]

Selway Fisher has something called the Drake 24.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/PCover20.htm
I doubt it's as big as the LOA makes it sound.

I wonder if you could get your three sail adjustability in a cutter, or a yawl.

[PVanderwaart]

Sweetpea is just a hair more complicated than you want, but is also smaller. Note the yawl rig.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/sweetpea/index.htm

[leftish]

Try Southwind at Svensons.com. Free plan 22 foot dory schooner.

[JimD]

Dave, no need for a double ender. Your list:

-22ft long,
-plywood,
-flat or shallow V bottom for ease of tailering
-2 masts with jib,
-comfortable sitting headroom
-large hatch, to stand and pull your pants up.
-water ballast, to ease in trailering
-able to right from a knockdown to 90 degrees
-centerboard(s)
-sleeping space for 2

...fits almost perfectly except I can't see a need for water ballast in mine. When and if I finally get such a boat built I expect to be living very close to the Pacific Ocean. How long did you say it would take you to design her? :D

PVanderwaart. Thanks for the tip on Sweetpea. Only trouble I have with her is that like other yawls it relies heavily on the mains'l for power. The Selway Fisher boat has the sail plan I'd want, but the hull doesn't do much for me.

Leftish, Southwind is an interesting Chapelle design but its cat rigged, and I kinda got my heart set on a jib.

[ 04-08-2005, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Venchka]

The elegant answer was done by a couple in Oz with the assistance of Iain Oughtred. A 22' version of Eun Mara. Sorry, that's all I know. The folks at Duckflats might be able to help. Or Iain, of course.

John Welsford's Penguin has the rig y'all are asking for. Like Eun Mara, more boat than the design brief would indicate.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/penguindwg2.gif

Karl Stambaugh's Meadowbird has the right rig. It's missing quite a bit of LOA.

http://www.cmdboats.com/images/mb_lapstrakekit.gif

Bolger? Square boat? Long-Micro? I sure hope not.

Smacks his head HARD! DOH! :cool:

http://www.sredmond.com/boat_images/ElvSailpl_sm.jpg

Steve Redmond's Elver. You could start with worse. Oops, double-ended. Strip planked. Forget I said a word. I was never here. :rolleyes:

I give up. I guess we need a new boat.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 04-08-2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[JimD]

Penguin, Meadowbird, Eun Mara, Elver, all poetry on water, and without quibling about the exact location of the rudder vis a vis the mizzen, also all yawls. Me want ketch or schooner designs, not sloops with itty bitty sails near the extreme stern.

[chrisk]

Would Atkin's (http://www.atkinboatplans.com) "Capt. Jim Young" be too long for you ? It's 28' 4", V-Bottom, Centerboard, Schooner rig. The write-up doesn't give a displacement for it and with centerboard up the draft is 2' 10", could be a little deep for easy trailering.

Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)

[Meerkat]

http://www.devlinboat.com/dcarctictern.htm

I've been below on an "Artic Tern" - very comfortable and with loads of headroom. Nearly luxurious for 2 and could sleep 3 if 2 don't mind sleeping together.

At one time, Devlin offered a schooner version of the "Artic Tern" (called the "Red Hawk" or Red-something in any case), but only built to order. IIRC, one was actually built for a gent in Portland, OR.

Who knows, you might just be able to talk him out of the schooner rig for the "Artic Tern" ;)

[JimD]

Would Atkin's "Capt. Jim Young" be too long for you ? Chrisk, yup, too big. I've looked at boats about that size before but I know I can't really afford one and wouldn't get enough use out of it to justify the investment. Not especially trailerable, either. Hard not to like the Atkin designs. The earlier mentioned Milford only with a centerboard would be just about right except part of what makes her so pretty also makes her small inside.

Meerkat, Arctic Tern with a mizzen might be just about right but for the fixed keel. I could even downsize to the CB version of Winter Wren although at that size it would be hard to find room for two masts.

The contest prize money so far still goes to Steve and Benford's Gunkholer :D

[Venchka]

Jim, Jim, Jim. Splitting hairs and picking nits, eh?

Let's scale down Matty. Make the main gaff headed. Why not? We're dreaming, right?

William Atkin wrote:
Matty is ketch rigged, a handy and efficient sail plan for any small boat. The total sail area is 366 square feet. The combined center of effort of the jib and mizzen is very close to the center of effort of the main sail. The balance of the sail plan thus remains constant under main alone or under jib and mizzen. The sail area is modest for a boat of this length; but this is a good feature on a center board boat; one does not want to be lugging sail on a craft of this type. With a rig of this kind there is a minimum of running rigging, blocks, and cleats; all of which, of course, makes handling easier.

Atkin Matty (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Matty.html)

Didn't know this was a contest and there was a prize.

Article by Ted Brewer on rigs...
Sail rigs by Ted Brewer (http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/foreaftrig.htm)

5 pages deep into a GOOGLE search for 22' ketch and the only boat out there is the Ted Brewer Grand Banks 22. Lots of 22 METER ketches around. :D Very few 22 FOOT ketches.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 04-09-2005, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[JimD]

Wayne, (Wayne, Wayne) :D The combined center of effort of the jib and mizzen is very close to the center of effort of the main sail. The balance of the sail plan thus remains constant under main alone or under jib and mizzen. This is what I'm after (at least in this thread). Matty, eh? Yes, let's scale her down, but let's also give her a vee bottom and call her Milford, only with Lagoon's centerboard, of course. And a little more elbow room inside like Gunkholer while keeping the low profile of the Atkin designs. I think we just found my dream boat. Thanks for the Ted Brewer article. And its not really a contest with actual prize money. That might be in contravention of forum rules. :eek: :D

[ 04-09-2005, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[paladin]

Venchka...I think you may be referring to Jerry Milgrams cat ketch.......rough boat but it proved the point...

Jay Benford lives across the creek from me at St Michaels...tel 410-345-7235...he's there most days....Jay also designed my 60 footer about 20 years ago..in his catalog it's called "wild Hare"

[Meerkat]

Damn Chuck! You had a 60' sailboat? (looks for little green jealous icon!)

How approchable is Mr. Benford - and would you be willing to ask him a question or 3 on my behalf?

[paladin]

jay is a professional gentlemen...and I'm sure if you have serious questions he will be happy to respond.......what are yer questyuns........

[Meerkat]

Generally speaking, a 16' or so "lazy man's" version of "Happy" (http://www.benford.us/pcty/14happy.html). Something _easy_ to construct: ie: not cold moulded for starters. Self floating if swamped ("unsinkable"). Minimal "I have to go do something before I die" escape vehicle! Similar rig and looks. All inboard rig. Full keel.

Hard to formulate specific questions tonight. I'm so depressed my depression is having a depression. I hope you are doing better.

[sr. jigaboni]

My experience with Jay Benford is that he will talk your ear off about boats (or email your fingers off, in my case). Also, he is very nice, as well as knowing a boatload about boat loads. That was dumb, huh smile.gif

Do not hesitate to contact him, or any designer for that matter; they'll either have what you want or won't, will make it or won't, and want to hear about it and analyze the potential either way.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
Generally speaking, a 16' or so "lazy man's" version of "Happy" (http://www.benford.us/pcty/14happy.html). Something _easy_ to construct: ie: not cold moulded for starters. Self floating if swamped ("unsinkable"). Minimal "I have to go do something before I die" escape vehicle! Similar rig and looks. All inboard rig. Full keel.

Hard to formulate specific questions tonight. I'm so depressed my depression is having a depression. I hope you are doing better.Well, looks like this thread just stopped being about ketches and schooners :D (I don't mind, really. I think Jay's Gunkholer just about seals the deal for the design I was hoping to find, so let's move on, eh?)

I would also ask questions very similar to Meerkat's. Essentially concerning a safe and inexpensive mini cruiser that might serve as the final fronteer of freedom for the lone sailer whose pocket book is not a match for his sense of adventure. Single chine plywood would do, but double is not much more work and can have a quite a bit nicer shape.
So...is it possible to design a 16er that is both heavy enough to hold its own in blue water yet light enough and carrying enough flotation to be more or less unsinkable? And the all inboard rig is pretty much a necessity as well. If it absolutely had to have a bowsprit it would have to be short and have a foolproof jib outhaul as well.

[Venchka]

Several professional designers have been given this brief. I know of 4 boats that went to the plans stage. 2 were longer, one slightly shorter and Paul Fisher's Micro 8. Notice I said longer or shorter, not smaller. All of these boats are HUGE in terms of displacement. They aren't unsinkable, kinda. All of the boats are closed up, no cockpit, wood or steel cocoons, junk sail and you sail the boat from inside. If that is the answer to "small ocean crossing boat", we need to ask a different question.

I understand what the designer's did. They produced the safest boat possible for the conditions expected. Can't blame them for that. They aren't in the business of drowning clients.

So, looks like you would be faced with the same choices a lot of the skippers in "A Speck on the Sea" had: use whatever boat you can get your hands on, outfit it the best way you can, get in the boat and go where you want to go.

So, do you really want to cross oceans in a 16' boat? Or would across the Gulf of Mexico from Biloxi to Tampa NOT during hurricane season be enough of an adventure? Or maybe Maine to Nova Scotia?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[paladin]

actually.....i think jay did a follow on to Happy...However.....

Displacement or load carrying ability in a very small boat means very little cargo and many stops and carrying lotsa money or equal..about 18 -20 feet is tha absolute minimum that I would choose for serious voyaging...and a multi chine version of a Flicka would work well. It can be done and is done all the time...but it's a minimal cruiser...not much in the way of electronics, no refrigeration, manual water, single burner or two burner cooker, bare celestial navigation and minimum radios...a serious builder, perhaps retired, working full time could build such a boat in a year and basically outfit it for about 20K....another choice would be something akin to a 30 foot 'dory' design like one of jays'...are you after a beautiful boat that gets compliments everywhere you go or do you seriously wanna go sailing?

[JimD]

Now that we're back to mini cruisers I'd like to see John Welsford's Swaggie hull only with a more traditional cockpit, cabin, and sailplan. The hull seems to be just about the perfect size, a beamy 18'X8' approx, a full keel and quite well ballasted with very good righting ability. If he'd draw up a sloop, cutter, or yawl sail plan I'd take care of the other modifications (wink, wink, nudge, nudge :D )

And I think Victoria, BC to Port Angeles, Washington, would probably be adventure enough for me. Ok, I'd like to get out of sight of land at least once.

[ 04-10-2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by JimD:

...And I think Victoria, BC to Port Angeles, Washington, would probably be adventure enough for me. Ok, I'd like to get out of sight of land at least once.Jim,

Shoot, I thought you wanted to go someplace. :rolleyes: Jamie Orr has done Victoria-Port Townsend-Victoria in his Chebacco. The story I put up the other day about Alaska, the boat, was a 2,000 mile trip. Sorry, mate, but I think Swaggie or the likes would be supreme overkill for Victoria-Port Angeles. Not that it doesn't require a seaworthy boat and an eagle eye on the weather. There's a Tanzer 22 for sale in B.C. cheap! By the way, yours truely has done Port Angeles-Victoria about a hundred years ago. On the Black Ball ferry. Very pleasant trip.

Chuck,

I think you're right on the mark about a Flicka sized boat for one near lunatic type to see the world. Slowly.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 04-10-2005, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[paladin]

a flicka size boat is easy deck cargo...it can be fitted to lower and raise the mast in a few minutes by one person, relatively cheep to maintain...can be hauled on the smallest lift...doesn't attract attention from over enthusiastic customs officials....etc...

[JimD]

Originally posted by Venchka:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JimD:

...And I think Victoria, BC to Port Angeles, Washington, would probably be adventure enough for me. Ok, I'd like to get out of sight of land at least once.Jim,

Shoot, I thought you wanted to go someplace. :rolleyes: Jamie Orr has done Victoria-Port Townsend-Victoria in his Chebacco. The story I put up the other day about Alaska, the boat, was a 2,000 mile trip. Sorry, mate, but I think Swaggie or the likes would be supreme overkill for Victoria-Port Angeles...

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D </font>[/QUOTE]On the other hand I've always wanted to sail to Australia :D I think Swaggie's hull might be just about right for circumnavigating Vancouver Island, at any rate. North to Alaska might be nice, but sailing south till the butter melts would be even better.

[ 04-10-2005, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[boatlover]

Originally posted by chrisk:
Would Atkin's (http://www.atkinboatplans.com) "Capt. Jim Young" be too long for you ? It's 28' 4", V-Bottom, Centerboard, Schooner rig. The write-up doesn't give a displacement for it and with centerboard up the draft is 2' 10", could be a little deep for easy trailering.Chris,

Capt. Jim Young - sigh ! Loveliest profile - sheer line and keel - that Atkin ever drew - IMO.

However, it is not 28'4" LOD. I used to have a copy of the original article from MotorBoating and Sailing.

LWL is 2i'6".
Fore and aft overhangs are 2'5 1/2" each.

That comes out as 26'5". I spent many hours dreaming over that design, and there is no reasonable way to get 28'4 for a length, without some shenanigans involving either the bowsprit or/and the main boom - perhaps a foot of each ?

If the 2'10" draft is a problem for trailering, how about the 9'7" beam ? WIDE LOAD AHEAD ?

There is also a substantial slab of lead ballast on that wide keel. Almost like a Seabright skiff keel.

Regards,

Ed R

[Meerkat]

Let's take the "Happy" discussion over to "Mini-Cruiser" in this section of the forum.

[htom]

The Florance Oakland rig should fit inside John Gardner's Modified St. Pierre dory; you'd have to design your own centerboard and accomodation.

160% of his Surf Dory is about 30' x 8' x ?not much.

[Venchka]

Hmmmm...20' LOA, 2' draft, 2,000 pound displacement...schooner rig...quite a bit of plywood in her...this little beauty has been right under our noses on the Forum for quite awhile.

http://3riversmarineworks.com/db5/00407/3riversmarineworks.com/_uimages/HullModelSailPlan3.jpg

Too bad Jim won't build it. It's made with the "S" word planking.

Laura Catherine (http://3riversmarineworks.com/index.html)

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[JimD]

So Wayne, does Laura Catherine have a real sail plan or just a pretend one on the model? :D

[JimD]

Originally posted by htom:
The Florance Oakland rig should fit inside John Gardner's Modified St. Pierre dory; you'd have to design your own centerboard and accomodation.

160% of his Surf Dory is about 30' x 8' x ?not much.Thanks for the suggestion :eek: :D

[Venchka]

The folks responsible for her are building the prototype. Very decent of them I think. They are keeping the drawings close to the vest. Didn't they say something about not releasing plans until the boat is complete? Length, draft & rig are right. 3 out of 4 ain't too shabby.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[JimD]

LC is a fine looking little schooner. I hope the mainsail on the finished product has a boom and does not overlap the mizzen. Quite a small 20er, what with shallow draft and a beam of only 6'3". That makes her narrower than the plywood 15er sloop I already have.

[ErikH]

There's always Dakini, or another boat similar to her design. I don't recall which WB she's in, but search for her by name; she's a featured article. bolger could easily stick in a different rig (she's a yawl now). very easy to build--hard chined--and a nice boat to sail.

Personally, unless you really have to trailer the boat often I'd consider going larger than 22 feet. Properly designed, a longer, proportionately narrower, boat will be faster, and there's no point in constantly worrying about reefs if your boat won't move anyway.

[chrisk]

-----------------------------------------
I hope the mainsail on the finished product has a boom and does not overlap the mizzen.
--------------------------------------------

I thought that having the foresail overlap the mainsail, which is the aft sail on a schooner, was supposed to be a big advantage in sailing to windward. In fact I thought that the racing rules outlawed an overlapping foresail for schooners which made them non-competitive with other rigs.

Maybe I have it wrong though as I am hardly a sailing historian. It's one of the reason's I'd like to build Atkin's "Live Yankee" someday as opposed to other schooners that have the foresail non-overlapping with a boom.

Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)

[JimD]

Originally posted by chrisk:
-----------------------------------------
I hope the mainsail on the finished product has a boom and does not overlap the mizzen.
--------------------------------------------

I thought that having the foresail overlap the mainsail, which is the aft sail on a schooner, was supposed to be a big advantage in sailing to windward. In fact I thought that the racing rules outlawed an overlapping foresail for schooners which made them non-competitive with other rigs.

Maybe I have it wrong though as I am hardly a sailing historian. It's one of the reason's I'd like to build Atkin's "Live Yankee" someday as opposed to other schooners that have the foresail non-overlapping with a boom.

Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)Chris, I think you may be right about all that. I didn't think my remark through too well. I was thinking in terms of handling the sail when coming about, but if there was a boom then there would also have to be some convenient place to run the mainsheet, which there wouldn't be, so possibly she would not only sail better as originally drawn but would also be easier to handle with sheets to port and starboard.

[JimD]

Personally, unless you really have to trailer the boat often I'd consider going larger than 22 feet. Properly designed, a longer, proportionately narrower, boat will be faster, and there's no point in constantly worrying about reefs if your boat won't move anyway.True enough, Erik. But I have to place some limits even if they seem very arbitrary. I don't need and can't afford a boat much over twenty feet. Twenty two is around the upper limit.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by JimD:
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, "Need's got nothin' to do with it" :D

:D Remember those words, HEY? :cool:

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Paul Piercey]

Take a good look at these designs. Proven designer with excelent support. Tested designs. And the designs are available with gaf rigs.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bel.htm
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/princess.htm

See this thread about the gaf rig for these designs:
http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3178&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://www.timtone.com/tt/ttphotos/images/CSgaff%20cutterHouse.jpg

Paul

[JimD]

Originally posted by Venchka:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JimD:
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, "Need's got nothin' to do with it" :D

:D Remember those words, HEY? :cool:

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D </font>[/QUOTE]And thus I am now looking at a 24 foot cutter. I think I need my head examined...Got study plans from Paul Fisher for Rathlin 20 a couple days ago. Still very tempting.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by JimD:
... I think I need my head examined...

That's my line. I know I said it when you got me started on Paul Fisher's boats. I do need to have my head examined when I think about building a boat. I already have one boat.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Steve Paskey]

One boat? You only have one boat? Buy or build a few more, and then you'll have something to talk about!

[JimD]

Yeah, what's with the only one boat thing, Wayne? :D

[chrisk]

Well, if you are really loking for a 24 ft cutter the "Capt. Blackburn thread has a pointer to one that looks pretty nice:

http://www.schoonercreek.com/traditional_sail/traditional_sail.htm

If you look at the plans pdf file for the cutter at the bottom it looks pretty neat.

Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)

[plyboat]

http://www.devlinboat.com/usedbolger.jpg

[Meerkat]

Interesting - the owner doesn't seem to have kept her for all that long!