I'm working on a new design

[Mark Van]

Since I've got many requests for a smaller, trailerable version of the Mark V 39, I have started working on it. This is just the preliminary sketch, it will probably go through many changes. I decided on the V-bottom, I like the way the Mark V 20 goes into a chop, no pounding or spray. This hull is just a longer version of that, with the cabin similer to the Mark V 39.

The length is 28 feet, which I think is the maximum for pleasant trailering. The loaded displecement will be around 4,000 lbs, and it should be less than 3,000 lbs light. I kept the beam at only 7 feet, so it will fit between the wheels of a trailer. I'd probably use a 50 hp outboard, for speeds around 12 to 15 knots.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mv283dview1.jpg

Any comments would be appriciated. I am trying to make the design appeal to as many people as possible, so I will take suggestions seriously.

(I changed the picture on this initial post because I deleted the original sketch from my web site, and I didn't want this thread to start out with a blank. The new picture is the 3-D CAD view of the boat so far.)

[ 10-16-2005, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Mark Van ]

[JimD]

How about some sort of outboard well so it doesn't look quite so outboard-ish?

[Mark Van]

I don't like outboard wells, but I may consider moving the outboard two feet forward, making it less conspicuous, like in the Mark V 39.

[Gary E]

How much do I have to cut off of my 6'6" height to be able to stand up in it barefoot?

[Keith Wilson]

I like it!! I presume that the space forward of the cabin has seats around the perimeter, and there are side benches aft of the cabin? One idea: the "cockpit" aft doesn't seem to me to be of much use except for access to the motor, and maybe launching the dinghy. When underway, the motor would be right in the ear of anyone sitting there. How would it work to move the cabin aft, reduce the space behind it to a "back porch", and expand the lounging space in the forward cockpit? You could add a control station forward (side steering?) and maybe even a steam-launch-style awning for hot weather. The forward cockpit would be an extremely pleasant place to be, particularly because it's isolated by the cabin from the noise of the motor. Just a thought.

[Mike Vogdes]

I would like an 8' beam... as you know an exta foot of beam would make a big difference on the interior. Fitting a trailer shouldn't be a concern. Your preliminary drawing looks nice...

[Bill Perkins]

If she were mine I'd add 6 in. of overhang to the aft end of the roof and a light mast /derrick at the aft wall of the cabin for handleing the dingy.

[ 04-24-2005, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Figment]

I agree with the above comment to increase beam. Fitting between the wheels of a trailer seems like the cart leading the horse.

Also, its been my experience with boats longer than 22' or so that a bit of height on the trailer isn't such a bad thing. The trailer is plenty long to reach the deep part of the ramp, and getting the boat up off the ground a few more inches means fewer butt-puckering moments when you pull out of parking lots with steep aprons, etc.

"Angle of departure" is what I think the off-road crowd calls it. Draw a line from the bottom of the trailer's tire to the bottom corner of the transom or to the tail of the engine, whichever is lower. The angle between this line and the ground is referred to as "angle of departure". My sense is that the axles on this trailer will be at least 10' forward of the transom. With that kind of overhang, I'd want plenty of ground clearance at the transom.
But enough trailer-talk.

I'm sure this is an opinion which will vary wildly from person to person, but to my eye she needs more freeboard to absorb some of the height of the house. She's a touch on the top-heavy side, visually.

For an interesting twist on the whole cabin-vs-cockpit discussion, have you seen the Logan 33?
www.heritagelaunch.com (http://www.heritagelaunch.com)
My wife and I saw this boat at the Newport boat show a few years ago, and completely fell in love with it. The galley elements are out back in the cockpit, which REALLY freed up a ton of cabin space, and allowed the cockpit to be a bit larger and also to have more of a sense of purpose.
Just a thought.

Love your boats. Really.
-MH

[Stiletto]

That looks nice. maybe the outboard could be hidden somewhat by having a split transom with the motor between .

[imported_Daniel]

Ditto on the increased beam. Nice looking so far Mark.

[Mark Van]

The 15 knots is just a guess, I like the 50 hp motor better than the smaller motor, because it is smoother and quieter for the same speed. It would probably cruise at 8 to 10 knots normally. I may increase the beam to 8 feet, but it still seems to me that the narrower boat would be better for trailering.
I don't agree with raising the freeboard, it is actually quite high for the style of boat that I am trying to copy. I don't see any problem with raising the headroom a few inches, it just seems that 6'6" would be good enough for most people. My Mark V 39 has over 6'8" headroom.
The aft cockpit benches are mainly for storage, and I will probably have the gas tanks under them. People will very rarely sit in the cockpits while underway, the cabin is very comfertable and airy, and that is where people will stay. I almost never sit in my aft cockpit, even at anchor.

[ 04-24-2005, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Mark Van ]

[BHM]

Dear Mark

[BHM]

Dear Mark
I have read your posting with great interest.
I recently completed building a 30 St Pierre Dory that I trailer... launching and loading are a "snap". No problem there.... My concern is on your beam of 7ft. I made mine at 8' so it is trailerable, but his dory is VERY tender indeed!
The chine is at 4 ft, and this is my concern for you, even though your hull is a different design. I am just finishing now as I write, fabricating a set of stabilizers to control the "tipping" (tenderness) of the dory. I have tested a proto type already and I am confident this will eliminate this concern for me. Attached is a picture of the "ICON".... if you would like to see the stabilizer design, just let me know...... good luck
Brent http://imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p2c2d5a21eb707ecb384138e1aa9a5251/f4e0c884.jpg

[Mark Van]

The dory hull has lots of flair, which makes it tender. My design doesn't have much flair, so it would be quite a bit stiffer. Also, since there are no side decks, and you move for and aft through the middle of the cabin, you won't put your weight far outboard. My Mark V 20 design doesn't seem that tender for a 3,000 lb boat. This should be quite a bit less tender, being 1,000 lbs heavier. I will probably increase the beam to 8 feet. I don't have much experience trailering boats, so I don't know if the extra beam will make much difference.

[BHM]

Dear Mark

I built the ICON like an "ICEBREAKER" ! Frames at midships are 2 1/2" thick and 12" deep. (to accomdate fuel and water tanks below the floor) I designed a 300 lb retractable lead ballast fin for added stability and better steering, but my point is this..... the ICON is not a "featherweight" at slightly over 4,000 lbs!
It took me 5 weeks to fabricate the tri-axle trailer to carry her and my Rigid 18 volt cordless drill combined with a good two speed winch, pulls the boat right up the trailer to wihin 12" of the yoke. 18 big bunker rollers and it's easy on and easy off. I hate inefficiency at the launch ramp. Best regards....
Brent

[Tar Devil]

I like that a lot, Mark. I also like the outboard where it is. AT 28' I wouldn't want to give up any room just to hide a motor.

The only thing I would ask... what would it do to the boat dynamically if the cabin went a little further forward?

Looks great! Exactly what I was wanting (actually, the flat bottom was more appealing to me, but it isn't enough of an issue to keep me from ordering plans).

Later,

Phil

[Keith Wilson]

If I were to build one, trailering would be a major concern. A 7' beam would be easier to fit on a trailer, but wouldn't it also require significantly less power at a given speed? A small motor is a Very Good Thing. I realize the modern trend is to put 150 hp on a very beamy 15' boat, but if I wanted one of those, I could just go buy it.

[Mark Van]

I worked up a sketch for an 8' wide version, I think the narrower one looks better, but I would have to see it in 3-D to decide. I don't think the wider boat would be and less efficiant, given the same displacement. the 4,000 lb displacement is a very rough estimate.

It is not intended as a go-fast, 50 hp is the maximum I'd reccommend. It will probably be run at low rpms most of the time, so it should be a four stroke. A 10 to 15 hp motor would be good for speeds up to around 7 knots. A 25 to 30 hp motor wouldn't be too practical, since it isn't enough hp to get up on plane, and it is way too much for displacement speeds.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/mv282.jpg.w560h328.jpg

[ 04-26-2005, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Mark Van ]

[WayGray]

The Guide to Wooden Power Boats on page 27 has a picture of Lady Hamilton, a 29'4" x 6'9" launch built 1929 in England, which reminds me alot of your proposal. This boat is one in a collection of photos of the most beautiful wooden boats in the world. Might be a boat to consider as a design guide.

[Mark Van]

Here is a few pictures of the style I'm trying to copy. As you notice, my freeboard is actually a little high compered to these.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/steamboat1.jpg.w300h227.jpg
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/napthalaunch.jpg.w300h184.jpg

[outofthenorm]

Originally posted by Tar Devil:
[... what would it do to the boat dynamically if the cabin went a little further forward?
[/QB]I'm liking the overall feel Mark, but I tend to agree with Tar Devil. Here's a photo of a local yacht club ferry that expresses the aesthetic nicely. Raised pilot house pushed a bit further forward.

Love the thread!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid166/p43a5dfcbf861342c500db82a718d1eec/f4528a37.jpg

[Mark Van]

Originally posted by Tar Devil:
I like that a lot, Mark. I also like the outboard where it is. AT 28' I wouldn't want to give up any room just to hide a motor.

The only thing I would ask... what would it do to the boat dynamically if the cabin went a little further forward?

Looks great! Exactly what I was wanting (actually, the flat bottom was more appealing to me, but it isn't enough of an issue to keep me from ordering plans).

Later,

PhilIf the cabin was moved further forward, the front of the cabin would start to get a bit narrow. This type of boat looks better the longer it is.

I chose the V-bottom because I don't think it is much more work to build than a flat bottom, and it may be easier to line up on the trailer. I will probably offer a flat bottomed option also.

[Mark Van]

The outboard on my Mark V 39 is only 18" forward, it doesn't ruduce the cockpit size much, and it isn't too conspicuous.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/0924speed.jpg

[Figment]

I'd hesitate to push the pilothouse too far forward. That forward cockpit is just too sweet to compromise.

Yes, I see your point regarding the freeboard height, now that you've posted that pic. My eye is more accustomed to coastal/offshore boats, I guess.

[landlocked sailor]

I like it too Mark; a real nice ICW rambler with trailerability. I like the 8' beam better too. More usable room and greater stability as well. I'll be interested in seeing the results. Rick

[paladin]

looks fine, Mark....
one comment....you can't park it a dock fer long...the top of the cabin should be canted inward a few inches so that the wake of passing boats dunno rock it so the top bangs the pilings or dock......or it's next door neighbor, depending on how close it is........

[Stiletto]

The outboard seems a lot less obtrusive in that photo.

[Mark Van]

I would put a heavy duty rub rail around the cabin top, since it will hit the pilings (or the lock wall) on occasion. I have never had problems with my cabin top hitting pilings, but with a much lighter boat, it may happen. I am pretty enthusiastic about this design, I think it will be populer.

[imported_Daniel]

What type of construction were you planning on for this design Mark?

[Mark Van]

Plywood/epoxy construction. the hull will basically be a stretched version of my Mark V 20.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mv20sideview.jpg
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/01156knots.jpg

[henryblowery]

I like it. I think it's better with the 8' beam-more roomy. cant weight for it to get out.
Gray

[seafox]

one thing that catches my eye is the combing behind the cabin. it seems a little strange and I wonder if their is a practical reason for it> it doesn't seem to match the forward part of the boat because the clean shear meets the cabin with a clean 90 degree angle. on the other land that combing just doesn't match the shear and I wonder why its there.
good luck on designing
what is the draft?
jeffery

[Mark Van]

The coaming along the aft cockpit is there for style, there is not much functional advantage to it. I think it looks like it belongs there, but that could be debated.

[Tar Devil]

Enough chat... get to work, Mark!! :D :D

Later,

Phil

[Stephen Hutchins]

I agree with seafox on the coaming and I imagine it might even look better without it. -Nice looking boat, Mark.

[Jack C]

I'm waiting for the plans to be finished before I start making changes to them. smile.gif

Jack

[Mark Van]

Actually, I started this thread before doing major work on the design, because I wanted oppinions about possible changes. It is much eisier to make changes now than later.

The last three boats I designed were for a specific person, me and my dad, so I knew what I wanted. This one is being designed as a stock plan, so I want it to appeal to as many people as possible.

[Tar Devil]

Originally posted by Mark Van:
This one is being designed as a stock plan, so I want it to appeal to as many people as possible.Dude, I LIKE it. I want it. When can I have it????

Later,

Phil

[Mark Van]

Hopefully sometime this summer. I will be spending the rest of may getting my boat ready for the cruise, since I haven't been anywhere for a year and a half. I will work on the design while cruising. I will not have internet access in many places, and bars may be few and far between, so I won't have too many distractions.

[landlocked sailor]

Fair winds Mark, I'll be anticipating the design. Rick :cool:

[landlocked sailor]

Hey Mark, The current WB article on the electric river cruiser sparked my memory. Have you made any progress on your design? Rick

[Mark Van]

I haven't done much work on it, I have been cruising up the Gulf Coast. I am in Mobile now, and I will be here for a while, to do some work on my boat. I haven't seen the lates issue of WoodenBoat yet, I am still waiting for my mail to be forwarded.

[Meerkat]

An alternate idea, predicated on the fact that a boat spends more time at dock then moving about:

Similar to Mark's design, but maximizing a large flat roof aft of a wheel house. A dinghy or RIB in davits off the aft end of the house, overhanging and shading the stern area. The large expanse of flat roof is completely covered with an array of solar panels and the batteries are under the cabin sole acting as ballast and energy storage.

What if it could do 30-50 miles every other day? ("off" day for battery recharge) Would that be suitable for an ICW cruiser?

[Mark Van]

To power a boat that size with just solar panels is not practical, I did the rough calculations a few years ago. I think I figured that you would have to spend 3 days getting the batteries charged with solar panels for every day running. Staying at marinas every night to charge the batteries would be more expensive than just buying gas.

Diesel-electric would be feasable, with the roof covered in solar panels for extra juce. I think that would be the most practical, but so far, the price of the machinery would probably be twice the price of the rest of the boat. You can buy a new 25 hp ouboard for $3,000. You would have to save a lot of gas to pay the difference. I think the price of a diesel-electric with solar panels would be over $30,000.

[paladin]

Mark...if you decide to go electric...and I haven't kicked the bucket....I have completed the design, construction and testing of some 96-98% efficiency power converters for solar use. the design was for another project involving the U.S. givment so the device as designed is bulletproof...

[Mark Van]

The Solomon Technologies electric drive seems to be the best for this kind of boat, but I don't think it will be practical on a boat that small. Perhaps in the future, when I become rich, I will try a V-bottemed version of the Mark V 39 with a solomon electric drive, roof full of solar panels, and auxilery generator. It would make a great liveaboard, with all electric apliances. Check out the Solomon web site, for lots of information on the system:
Somomon Technologies (http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/index.html)

[RonW]

I think your 7 ft. wide version is a much better looking boat. Long lean boats are making a comeback. Because they slide through the water rather then bouncing over it from one wave to another. It's a glide instead of a bounce.
People are wrong when they want wider boats for more room and shorter for easier towing, thus ends up being a box on the water with a 2 to 1 length to width ratio, and consequently they bob from side to side and bounce up and down from end to end. It is like comparing the ride of a jeep to that of a lincoln town car.
Have you ever towed a real short and light boat, like a 16 ft. skiff, it bounces down the road because of lack of weight, and is a lot harder backing down a ramp then a boat twice it's length.

Check out this boat, a 1954 chesapeake bay oyster tonger with a drake tail, it is 8 ft. wide and 43 ft. long. Looks nice.

http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=339

There are ways to set up a electric boat a whole bunch and a little less then by using solomon motors. Go to evamerica and get in touch with bob.
You can put together a system for about 6 grand with a 6 or 8 horse electric which is equal to a 24 to 32 gas, batteries and all, not counting shaft and prop, and enough batteries to run 8 or 10 hours on high. You can add a honda super quiet generator and run on and on. You will get gas mileage around 20 miles to the gallon too.

[RonW]

You may also be interested in this as well as the will frost lobster boat of the 40's - a 8ft 10inch beam with a 34 ft. lenght. Again approaching the 4 to 1 lenght to width ratio.

http://www.rumerys.com/T38main.html

http://www.rumerys.com/Batphotos/Bat.01.JPG

[StevenBauer]

Hey Mark, have you read Robert Ayliffe's article in #185 yet. I'd be interested in your thoughts on this design.

http://www.woodenboat.com/wbcurrent.jpg

Steven

[Mark Van]

I haven't seen the magazine yet, I am still waiting for my mail to be forwarded.

[StevenBauer]

No hurry. smile.gif

Steven

[Tar Devil]

(Tapping foot, being as patient as possible)

[michigangeorge]

Nice concept Mark! I would prefer the Motor remain outboard. Moving it in just seems to say " hey, I would rather have an inboard but I'm too cheap". The new 4-stokes are clean looking and quiet- nothing to be ashamed of. I would go for the 8' beam but move the house sides inboard to allow an 8"-10" side deck. I would feel more at ease alongside docks or in locks and there are times when it would be handy to go forward outside. GIT-ER-DONE!

[Mark Van]

I don't see any point in the wider side decks, I never use mine while underway, the only time I use mine is to adjust lines at the dock. Unless they were 16 to 18 inches wide, there is no point in having them more than 5 or 6 inches. You can't walk on them without using the handrails on the roof anyway. It is no problem stepping from the helm to the foredeck the way it is, and docking you just hang out the windows.

[Mark Van]

OK, I actually started to work on the design. So far, everything is looking good. Here are the 3-D views from my cheap CAD program.
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mv283dview1.jpg
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mv283dview2.jpg