rbgarr

[Ged]

I'm trying to get an idea of the sailing qualities of boats like your Shields (narrow, highly ballasted, low freeboard, 18+ SA/D's). I've read brief snippets of your experiences that you've given about it in several threads. Could you give me a more detailed idea of what this boat is like in the water? Bear in mind that I've never sailed before, so what I know is from what I've read so far.

These are the details that I have to compare to other boats:

LOA 30.3'......D/L 257
LWL 20.95'.....SA/D 20.82
BEAM 6.46'.....M/C 25.65
DISP. 4639.....C/R 1.55
BALST. 3080....PPI 463
S/A 362........B/L 4.7 (B/LWL 3.1)
DRAFT 4.75'....B/R 67%

M/C is Ted Brewer's motion comfort number. C/R is the comfort ratio. PPI refers to how many pounds it takes to lower the boat an by inch into the water. B/R is the ballast ratio. Most of these numbers came from Sail Calculator Pro. I know that the motion comfort and capsize ratio numbers are not considered "concrete" numbers to base decisions on.

[ 05-23-2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Ged ]

[rbgarr]

First, let me reprise why I wanted a Shields, although you may have read it elsewhere in my posts. I wanted a long-ended attractive daysailing sloop that I could maneuver, sailhandle and moor single-handedly without worries in moderate (up to 12-14 knots) winds. She would also need to sail very well in drifting conditions and not be wet or slowed by cross- chop or 'boat-traffic' waves, even with a crew of three or four aboard. I 'd need to be able to store her on a trailer, and get her prepped and launched in one day at the beginning of the season and likewise put away in a day at the end of the summer. I wanted to do this by myself, except for the help of the local boatyard crane operator who pulls the mast and lifts the hull onto the trailer.

What is she like in the water, you ask. She is everything I could wish for. Come along on a typical afternoon sail on ROSALITA, Shields #56, built in 1967. We row out to her mooring and take off the sail cover on the mainsail and untie the stops lashing the sail to the boom. There are lazy jacks that keep the sail from dropping down into the waistdeep cockpit that runs from a foot or so aft of the mast to the tiller nine feet further toward the stern. You pull the jib out from under the foredeck and snap it on the forestay, attaching the halyard last. The jib sheets are always attached and run through the deckblocks. I tie off the dinghy on a long painter to the mooring's eyesplice on the bow cleat and take the pendant out of the stem head chock. Returning to the cockpit, I slack off the topping lift, lift the boom up, remove the boom crutch and slack off each end of the double ended mainsheet. You attach the main halyard to the head of the sail and raise the main. I wait for the bow to swing off in the direction I want to go once I leave the mooring , run the jib up, cleat its halyard and step forward on deck to drop the mooring. While up there on the foredeck I can backwind the jib by hand if the bow is swinging back around. You coil the halyards while I step aft to haul in the sheets.

The boat rarely goes much more than a boatlength to leeward of the mooring by the time I get to trimming the sails, so it isn't as sloppy as it may sound. I just hate the sound and sight of sails slatting about as a boat sits on a mooring tugging this way and that. As we sail off into the bay, usually on a beam reach through the moored boats, I can adjust the traveller for the conditions, and get the jib luff tensioned just right on its deck winch. If she's set up right, she'll sail a straight course on her own, most reliably hard on the wind.

The wake she makes to leeward follows the sheerline just a few inches below the rubrail all the way to the small counter before dropping off. It feels very right, somehow. I will often adjust the sails so I head offshore and sit to leeward on the curved slatted seats, where I get that close-to-the-water feeling. If my children, nephews and nieceswere with us they'd usually be lying on the foredeck telling jokes among themselves, enjoying watching the bow wave or threatening to push one another overboard. My wife and her mother might sit on the aft deck chatting and enjoying the sun and breeze. If the wind is too brisk they'll sit down in the cockpit. Because of the full keel and attached rudder we don't need to worry about snagging the ubiquitous lobster trap buoys. The working jib winches have under-deck handles, so we never have to unwind the sheets from the winch-head on each side deck. This makes quick tacks (even setting the jib wing-and-wing) very easy, so the skipper doesn't have to move from the tiller to handle the jib or trim the mainsheet as it's double-ended in camcleats at each aft corner of the cockpit. Thus I often sit to leeward on one tack, and windward on the next, slaloming through the anchored boats in the harbor under complete control as I snap from one tack or jibe to another. This makes my wife a little nervous, but the kids love it, acting like a collision is about to happen any minute. You find you enjoy it, too.

I will often sail around the harbor like this for hours, beating, reaching, running, quick-tacking through narrow slots or up close to ledges and boats, talking to people on boats or ashore. If my wife doesn't come along and the sailing is good she'll figure we'll skip dinner. There's beer, water and snacks to hold us over. I've got a VHF she can call us on, if necessary.

One night last summer I stayed out alone until two in the morning because the breeze never died, and we make a pint of sailing on the nights of the full moon each month.

But usually the breeze sighs out around sunset and we'll have to make our way back to the mooring. A ways short of themooring field, you'll go up on deck, douse and unsnap the jib, and store it back below deck. As long as we don't stop her momentum, Rosie seems to make her own wind in even flat calm conditions and will ease along silently and smoothly toward the mooring. We'll drop the main about five lengths from the mooring and she'll almost always stop just as she reaches the buoy.

The hardest part is getting a good tight furl in the mainsail by myself. The sailcover is a bit snug. I'm glad you came along to help... next time I'll let you take the tiller.

[ 05-24-2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[Ged]

Oh my, I certainly didn't expect that! That was wonderful. Thank you!

I have some observations and some questions.

My guess is that the Shields, though relatively narrow, is a very stiff boat, due to the heavy ballast. I have read that such a boat might easily heel the first 15 degrees or so, then hold very steadily. True?

I think I have also read that some boats so heavily and centrally ballasted can "hobby horse" somewhat. I think I read something like that in one of the threads here.

From what I read above, I gather that you don't miss having an auxilliary aboard. I am not interested in having one either, if I can get away with it. I like "canoe yachts" and wouldn't mind being able to use a couple of oars (are these also known as "sweeps"?) on occasion, if necessary.

I like narrow hulls (with light to moderate D/L's) not only because I think they are beautiful, but because I view beamy displacement hulls as inefficient. I think of wide boats as plowing or pushing through the water rather than cutting cleanly through it. I've noticed in many photographs that narrow boats often exhibit very little splashing water at the bow while creating almost imperceptible wakes.

All this interest is in relation to a boat that I really like. It is Mr. Gartside's canoe sloop, design #82. Although nothing like this is in my immediate future, the design has really taken hold in my mind (Wild Dingo, I'm feelin' you, bubba).

Mr. Gartside is far and away my favorite designer. I also favor the designs of Joel White and LFH a great deal. Besides having a great handle on the practical aspects of design, these guys really have/had "the eye". Other designers will often grab my attention with a stunning design, but my desires and aesthetics seem most in tune with the three listed above.

My humble beginnings in boatbuilding will probably start with one of Mr. Gartside's dinghies (#90, stitch/glue) or Gifford Jackson's Marisol. I'd like to experiment with a number of different building techniques along the way. Forum member Stephen Hutchins gave me great advice on these things.

Thank you for the tour of your boat and the harbor. As I read of your obvious pride and the involvement of your family, I couldn't help but think of my dad. When I was 7, he designed and built a houseboat in our backyard. His best friend was a welder, so the two of them brought the project together. It was launched and kept at a slip on Lake Oauchita. Over the years, it was quite possibly the best thing our family ever had. I was always surrounded by many of the members of my family most spring, summer, and fall weekends, from grandparents to cousins, and there in the midst of all of them was my dad, proudly sitting at the helm with the biggest smile on his face. Thinking back makes me look forward to building a boat, almost any boat...

[ 05-24-2003, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: Ged ]

[rbgarr]

I've got a small inclinometer which I could mount somewhere to measure the degree of heeling, but I haven't done it. Fifteen degrees is about right, I guess, when she's moving along, but if it gets to be much more than that she resists heeling more like you noted in your post. She certainly doesn't lean over on her ear easily, or require a lot of crew to keep under control. If I were an avid racer in a Shields class fleet I'd want some real beef on the rail in windy conditions to keep her upright. She always sails best at a low angle of heel.

I have a three hp folding leg Johnson that can be mounted on a side bracket at the aft end of the cockpit, but rarely have to use it. One day I towed a whole string of J-22s back into the harbor after the wind died completely during an afternoon race, so it's sufficient in calm weather.

Regarding hobby-horsing: Another design I considered is the Luders 16, which has a similar profile. I've sailed one before and they seemed to be more prone to hobby-horsing. I ascribe that to the shorter waterline (16 feet), and smaller and lower sail area and displacement. To me the momentum of a boat always moving along steadily is what forestalls hobbyhorsing. The J-22, for example, has a 20' waterline like my boat, but is much lighter and has a shorter mast than my boat. In light, calm conditions we are about even, but if choppy waves set up, I can often power through them better and gain distance. If I tack smoothly through the waves, i.e., maintaining momentum, they often they quick tack and lose it, so I can gain or stretch out.

I don't have anything against the roomier, broader boats , but they're not for me. I don't need that kind of space.

I'll have to look at Gartside's canoe design. I like his designs, too, but haven't seen that one. The other designers are, of course, great favorites of many. One of my favorite designers is Sidney Herreshoff.

Good luck with your building plans and sailing. It's a great family activity as you note.

[Billy Bones]

Thank you for both the brilliant description and the technical lesson, rbgarr. That was wonderful reading.

Cheers,

[Noah]

Rb, (can I call you that?)

That was a great post about what sailing is all about. While I decided that a Shields wasn't the perfect boat for me, I think that you have nailed why a boat like that is perfect for many people. The ability to get out on the water quickly, move with just a touch of a breeze, and enjoy life is paramount to enjoying a sailboat.

There aren't many boats that fit this bill well. I looked over the last year for the perfect boat that did just what you enjoy and couldn't really find one.

I made an offer on a 22sq meter, but that fell through (title problems) and it probably wasn't the right boat anyway. The running backstays scared me.

I think that everyone looking to build a boat or buy one should think about what sailing is about. There are very few of us that have the time it takes to keep a bigger boat in good shape (I'm not sure if I do...). Rather than stuff a boat with things you aren't going to use, keep it simple.

My very good friend sails a Melges 24 and wouldn't own any other boat. (He has owned most of them...) He loves the boat because he can single hand it easily. It goes fast in almost any breeze. With a crew of 3 we can get it going 16+ knots down wind in 18 knots of wind. We can do well in any PHRF race we enter. It has a huge cockpit that seats 7, and still can be tailored behind his Passat wagon. Plus it's a one design boat that is holding it's value well.

All the things that your shields does well...

I wish that there were more classic boats that can fit this bill. I will say that if you are a wooden boat builder today you should build a boat that can do all of these things.

I was dang tempted to buy a really beat up Melges and cold mold the hull. Put in a nice cockpit and trim details and have a boat that would sail the pants of most, and still look good doing it.
Instead it looks like I have purchased a much larger, very time-consuming yacht. I hope that it bits the bill and does what I want. (It probably does...)

If you look at the current high performance racing boats, small is in. We just don't have the time that we used to.

Anyway, I will stop ranting and say that everyone considering building or buying a boat should read this thread and think about what it is they want to do.

Forget what the boat looks like, but really think about and list how they will use their new boat. Do most of the people that build a boat with a couple of berths use them? Will their wife or husband want to go out for a weekend? Can you get where you want in a day? (Too many people think that a high performance boat is un-seaworthy) I have spent lots of days not moving while others in newer designed boat sail past. 90% of the days that most of us go out sailing the weather is hot, sunny, and not all that much wind.

Thanks for the write up on how you use your Shields, it was a good one.

Noah

[rbgarr]

Noah-

I agree. Thinking through how to use (and care for) a boat ahead of time has a great impact on how well it works out... but for newcomers to the sport, that knowledge (often hard-earned) is sometimes overshadowed by romantic imaginings of life on the bounding main. And the advice to think through 'needs vs. wants' in advance applies to most of life's choices, doesn't it?

Joel White succeeded in designing some very good looking daysailing types, some with minimal accommodations, ranging from the Bridge's Point 24 to the Center Harbor 31-35 series. There's also the Herreshoff Buzzard's Bay 25 series, and Alerion models built by Sanford and Rumery's, among others. The Stuart 28 also comes to mind, as do other LFH designs.The Alerion series by Shumacher is a more modern attempt to meet that market, IMO. I have seen and sailed beside each of these designs in my Shields and am satisfied with my choice overall. That doesn't mean I would turn someone away who wanted to GIVE me any one of them!

Of course, the purchase price on these boats, even used, is beyond all but the most affluent or committed. That's one of the reasons I chose a fiberglass design, and was fortunate to find a barely used though pretty old boat, newly Awlgripped.

[Noah]

An Alerion just popped up on our lake here. I know 2 or 3 wealthy's that are thinking of getting one. I probably would to if I had 65K to blow on a boat. Something about a modern underbody with a somewhat classical look.

I gotta confess that the 22SQ Meter I was going to get is glass. One of the very few around. I was torn by the decision, but glass was probably smart.

I wonder if I should get be getting a boat like yours, but time will tell. I'm still young, and I have lots of friends to come sail and cruise. I was just trying to figure out how I could fit all of the serious sailors on my boat for the launching. Who knows...in 5 years I will probably want something smaller and less time consuming.

Anyway, glad to hear that others are thinking along the same lines.

Noah