Camping/Expedition Rowboat

[glenallen]

I've long enjoyed this informative and entertaining forum. Now I need some of your thoughts. I'm a long time kayaker. Getting older and less able (or willing) to rough it to the extent required by kayaks. I'm thinking of a boat I can row or use low HP outboard, with a sleeping area out of the rain, storage space, easy to build. I've built skin on frame kayaks and wood strip kayaks. Would prefer simple plywood or strip design. I've searched plans but rather have input from some of you who may have experience with a particular design you like. I'll be in protected lakes and Intracoastal Waterway for the most part. Thanks so much, Glen

[John Bell]

I can't say that I've seen a cruising rowboat with an enclosed sleeping space that looked like it would be that much fun to row. The windage of the house always looked like a deal-breaker to me. Bolger drew a cruising rowboat that I would want no part of simply because it was all enclosed. It seemed to me that going anywhere inside that capsule would be akin to exercising inside a coffin.

Here's a thought: Jim Michalak drew a 20'x5' sail/rowboat called Frolic. This boat has a small cuddy and could easily be adapted to carry a 2-4 horsepower motor in lieu of the sailing rig. The long lean shape won't be too bad to row either.

He later added a fot of beam to Frolic make it a better sailboat and called the result Frolic 2. But I think for your purposes the original would better suit your needs. Go to http://www.duckworksmagazine.com for more info on some of Jim's stuff.

[Venchka]

Piece of cake! Forum member Steve Paskey had John Welsford design the boat you are looking for. Or very nearly the boat you want.

Walkabout Discussion (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002948)

Walkabout plans (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/walkabout/index.htm)

Enjoy!

[Paul Scheuer]

I think tentage is the right approach. You could get the best of both worlds with very few compromises. You might even end up with standing headroom overnight with low windage underway. A lot of tents look like afterthoughts, but if you start with a good plan it could be well integrated, easily set up, light weight, etc.

[DavesFlatsBoat]

How about this Paul Butler design: Gun Dory (http://butlerprojects.com/gundory.html)
http://www.butlerprojects.com/images/gundory1.jpeg
http://www.butlerprojects.com/images/gundory2.jpeg

[ 12-19-2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: DavesFlatsBoat ]

[Meerkat]

Not to dilute the thread or anything, but why row or power when you can sail? It's quieter, less work than rowing, faster than rowing, less smelly and, probably, cheaper than an engine and fuel for the same miles covered. (Don't forget the oars though - sometimes you have to row the last 50' ;) .)

After the Walkabout (Venchka you beat me to it!), there's also the Tread Lightly, another John Welsford design.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/tlcolor.jpg
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/tl.gif
L O A 4.0M 13FT
BEAM 1.5M 5 FT
WEIGHT 300 KG 661 LBS INC C/BOARD
DRAFT BOARD UP 0.20M/8IN BOARD DOWN 1M/3FT 3IN
SAIL AREA 11.5 SQM 123 SQFT

Tread Lightly (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/index.htm)

Very easy to build! Essentially, you erect the bulkheads, lay some fore and aft stringers over them, and then hang plywood "planks" over in a way resembling traditional lapstrake. One of the biggest advantages is that you can butt-scarph (sometimes called butt strapping) the "planks" on the hull and you're not left trying to deal with a wobbly 16' length of plywood. Another nice feature is that the boats are typically built upright, so you can reach in through the "skeleton" and install some interior components more easily before the hull planking and the "lid" ;) go on. This is the same technique that most/all of John Welsfords amateur construction plans use, so it would be the same for the Walkabout.

[ 12-19-2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Tonyr]

Don Kurylko has a couple of nicely detailed camp cruisers worth checking out. Go to WWW.DHKURYLKO-YACHTDESIGN.COM (http://WWW.DHKURYLKO-YACHTDESIGN.COM) for details.

Tony.

[Shalfleet]

I second (or third) the Walkabout recommendation. To me she seems the perfect rowing and sailing blend, light (about 200lbs) and looks great. John's tent design is based on real experience and he said adding a sliding (rowing) seat and a main and jib would also be possible.
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/tent200.gif
I plan on an adventure in a Walkabout in the not too distant future!

[Ian McColgin]

I, of course, vote for the gunning dory. If you build lightly, as Gardiner shows, she'll only weigh a couple hundred pounds finished. I'd add floatation bow and stern at the first and last frames. If you canvass those foam eel thingys the kids play with, you can make a moderate floatation fender right around the boat that helps as well. This gives enough that, if swamped (unlikely) you can swim into the boat and then bail while, at first, floating inside.

You're used to tenting anyway. Have one of those nice no-bottom tents that go up easily on tricky beach terrain. A nice cot and seat and you're far better off than trying to snug down in an over cramped cabin.

G'luck

[Rancocas]

The Sept/Oct 2003 issue of WoodenBoat has an article about a guy who cruised in an 18' double ended yawl, and later in a 24' version of the same basic boat. This is reminiscent of John MacGregor who cruised England and the European mainland in a similar craft, the yawl "Rob Roy", over a hundred years ago.
Then, there was Nathaniel Holmes Bishop who cruised down the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers in a sneakbox and wrote about his experiences in "Four Months In a Sneakbox".
There were quite a few long cruises made in sailing canoes back about a hundred years ago. Charles A. Neide who sailed the canoe "Aurora" from the Adirondacks to the Gulf of Mexico; and Frederic A. fenger who sailed around the Caribbean in the canoe "Yakaboo", are just two old timers who come to mind.
All of these craft had floor space enough for at least one person to stretch out and sleep under a boom tent.
For myself - I am slowly working toward an 18' canoe yawl, similar to Selway-Fisher's "Jim" design, but slimmer, with a beam of only 5' as was more common of the canoe yawls of MacGregor's time. (easier rowing) Plus, I prefer the beauty of the cutter rig of Selway-Fisher's "Islay" sloop which is also a double ender.
In an 18' canoe yawl I believe two people, maybe three, could sleep on the floor under a boom tent, or go ashore to pitch a larger tent.
Hopefully, within the next five years, I would like to start at Knoxville, Tennessee and cruise down the length of the Tennessee River, to the Ohio, and then down the Mississippi to the Gulf, and beyond.
I have to finish my woodstrip canoe first, then a glued lapstrate plywood sailing canoe, and then build the canoe yawl that is my dream.

[DougC]

Check out the surf dory camper in WoodenBoat 163 (Dec. 2001). The author, Ed Davis, put a sail rig and tent on a classic John Gardner design, the article has all the details. The hull is very similar to a gunning dory. This is the boat I'd make for an extended wilderness trip (S.E. Alaska -- dream on) sleep in the boat away from the BEARS. A dory makes sense as a camper, narrow flat bottom makes them easy to beach, also they're nice to build. Doug

[LaMess]

Don't know what ya'll think of Antonio Diaz's stuff but here are is one with a collapsible cuddy and a tent.
Sirena (http://www.diasdesign.com/sir.html)

Here is the one I have salivated over extensively.

Harrier (http://www.diasdesign.com/har.html)

[LaMess]

I forgot the link to the porn.

porn (http://www.diasdesign.com/picH.html#V)

[Bruce Taylor]

It's probably not quite what you have in mind (no cuddy) but it's free.

Blackfly camping dinghy (http://www.comnet.ca/~btmo/index)

[Meerkat]

I don't want to dilute Glen's thread. Would y'all be so kind to have a look and comment on my new nearby thread "Rigs" please.

[Jack Heinlen]

Glen,

In your original post you said row and outboard. I'd be hard pressed to find a better boat for that than a Swampscott Dory. There are a bunch of them in the 16-20 foot range. Have a look in Gardner's The Dory Book . If sailing isn't on the menu(or even if it is) I think his Dion Dory would make a great, very seaworthy boat such as you describe. You'd have to loft it, but that's a very interesting process in itself. And if you didn't want to loft it I'm sure there are similar boats that are patterned off. But I've always been fond of that one.

Without a centerboard, and the next to smallest of four stroke outboards in a well, and a tent, it would make a dandy, snug little camp cruiser.

There are almost endless possibilities in this general type. Ask yourself: How am I really going to use this boat? The answers will guide you.

Best of luck,

Jack

[Meerkat]

Selway-Fisher has a very nice 16' modified Swampscott Dory called the "Petite Brise". She's a centerboard gunter yawl with an outboard well. Have a look at http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm#BRI

Quite a sharp looking boat IMO.

[Ben Fuller]

Rowing as a single hander is the driver in these decistions. If the boat gets too long or too heavy it isn't fun. Sixteen feet and under 200 lbs. is about as big as it needs to be. So how do you reconcile this with being able to sleep aboard? Get a design with a removable seat like a Delaware Ducker where the low side decks provide strength or dory based type which relies on sawn frames. The biggest issues with the gunning dory or ducker kinds of boats is that they move around some as you move around.

If you can find Bruce Brown's Long Strokes there is good information in it. He did some serious distance in a modified Appledore Pod. And he reminded me about John Garber and his Ken Basset designed Pogy.

Windage is a killer on rowing boats. For shelter. go with canvas.

If you are interested in gunning dories, we measured a honey here in Maine some years ago. Plans are in the small boat collection at Mystic and if you have a copy of their catalog 87 Designs, its in that in the group of McGee island boats.

[ 12-21-2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Ben Fuller ]

[glenallen]

My thanks to all of you for a wealth of thought provoking information. I e-mailed John Welsford and asked his feelings about altering Walkabout for my needs. I Received a quick response from John: "I am happy with the idea of adapting a Walkabout to outboard and oar rather than sail and oar, just leave all the sailing parts out and convert the after end of the quarter deck to take a motor. I'd use a 4 stroke 2 or 3 hp motor".
Looking at Walkabout and the other wonderful sailing designs you all suggested, caused me for the first time in my life, to consider sailing instead of paddling. Maybe someday I will.
Your ideas also prompted me to reassess what I really want from boats and why it is that I've been drawn to kayaks for so long in the first place. Nearing retirement (couple more months) I think I was feeling vunerable for the first time ever. Maybe looking for more security and buffer from the elements than kayaks provide (a cabin} and less work (a motor}. As some of you mentioned, windage, windage, windage. The kayak is out of the wind. I'm accustomed to tentage, as one of you said.
After our conversation I feel more confident to continue with the kayak at any distance. I'm still healthy and fit despite my age. It's what I know, and I do like it so much. For a moment the grass appeared greener to me in the world of more sophisticated boats. For now I'll build some more kayaks and take some longer trips as long as I'm able. My best wishes to you guys in your own pursuits. It's comforting to know you're there. Glen Longino

[rbgarr]

Glen-

You sound like a prime candidate to make the trip to Maine for the Rally Around Penobscot this summer! Have you seen that thread?? (Search for RAP 2004, if you haven't.)

[glenallen]

smile.gif
I looked that up and you're right, looks like my kind of get together. Long way from Texas to Maine, but who knows.....I'll have time on my hands. Thanks, Glen

[njcoaster]

http://209.11.144.65/eldritchpress/nhb/SB.HTM

There's your answer. Just do it the way Nathaniel H. Bishop did.