plans, sails, import taxes and many more.

[Garp]

hello,

i'm a newcomer from Portugal, Europe. Thinking on building a sailboat, maybe a Bull's-Eye from Glen-l since is so versatile.

After reading this forum for a few days (great place by the way) i have some questions that hopefully some of you might explain.

Browsing the web, there seems to be many designers arround there and a lot more ships designs to buy. Are all good? Are there bad surprises? is there a ranking/review of designs/designers someware?

With sailboats, do you build or buy the sails? I can't seem to find plans for sails. And the mast? Do you usually buy the kits normaly available where you by the plans? You see, since i'm from Europe, the kits became a lot more expensive because of the transportation and import taxes.

I'm thinking on buying these two books. Are they good?

Yacht Design Explained: A Boat Owner's Guide to the Principles and Practice of Design - Steve Killing

Backyard Boatbuilder: How to Build Your Own Wooden Boat - John Welsford

One more question. Do you recomend Selway Fisher Designs? http://www.selway-fisher.com
What about the boats 16' Petite Brise and 16' Kane & Able (http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm)

Thank you for the help and time.

[ 09-02-2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Garp ]

[Graham Knight]

I can help with a couple of your points. Selway-Fisher plans are excellent and so in my opinion are Glen-L, having built a Glen-L boat myself and shortly starting on a S-F design too.
Get your sails made by a sailmaker, any worth his salt will be able to look at your boat and will know what is required. An alternative would be to buy a set of sails, either new or used, for a similar boat and use those.
Or if you feel adventurous buy a copy of "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" by Emiliano Marino (ISBN 0-07-137642-9), read it thoroughly and decide if you can make your own. I've made a few small sails now and it's actually not that difficult, most modern sailcloth can be sewn on a decent domestic sewing machine, no need for heavy duty industrial machines although if you have access to one it might help in places.

[Garp]

Thank you Graham. I'll get that book on sails to.

[JimD]

I've built two Glen-L boats. One very convenient aspect to Glen-L's business philosophy is you can buy virtually everything you will need to build the boat:

Available for the BULL'S-EYE

Complete Plans plus Full Size Patterns for the side/bottom planking, aft side, butt blocks, aft bottom, form, transom, knee, breasthook, seat end, seat top, seat side, thwart, trunk top, bulkhead, bow seat, rudder, tiller, daggerboard, bulkhead gusset, mast support, bow gusset, motorboard, seat ledge, trunk brace, and skeg. Instructions include step-by-step photos, bill of materials, fastening and laminate schedule, plywood utilization and STITCH-N-GLUE Manual.

Stitch and Glue Kits Stitch and Glue planking junctions must be reinforced on both sides with fiberglass. If you fiberglass the outside, no additional material is required (Kit A). If you do not fiberglass the outside of the hull, additional material is required for the seams (Kit B). These kits do not include Plans and Patterns.

Stitch and Glue Kit A: Includes POXY-SHIELD epoxy resin to coat the inside, make fillets, and apply fiberglass tape; fillers for making fillets, fiberglass tape for inside seams, copper wire, temporary and permanent fasteners, plus a sampling of application tools. UPS shippable, three pkg, weight approx. 6 lbs., 24 lbs., and 28 lbs.
Stitch and Glue Kit B: Includes all of the above plus additional fiberglass tape and resin for the outside seams. UPS shippable, three pkg, weight approx. 6 lbs., 24 lbs., and 31 lbs.
Epoxy Fiberglass Covering Kit includes POXY-SHIELD epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth to cover the outside of the hull, plus a sampling of application tools. Shipped UPS or Parcel Post. Shipping weight approx 28 lbs.


Fittings Kit: You need this kit regardless of the version being built; with row, sail, or ourboard power. Includes a 4" access plate, 6" chrome plated bronze bow eye, two chrome plated transom lifting handles, 3 drain plugs, a pair of chrome plated oar locks, plus stainless steel fastenings for mounting.

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Sprit Rig
Hardware/Rigging Kit - Standard: Includes rudder gudgeons and pintles, rudder stop, gooseneck, jam cleats, traveler block, fairleads, eye straps, mainsheet blocks, mainsheet swivel block on plate, tiller bolt, bronze mast support bolts with wing nuts, masthead sheave with axle, and halyard block with eye strap. The kit also includes running rigging for traveler, halyards, and sheets in hand friendly "yacht braid".
Hardware/Rigging Kit - Deluxe kit include all of the above except the mainsheet swivel block on plate, which is replaced by a pivoting cam cleat with fairlead.

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Cat Rig
Hardware & Rigging Kits: In addition to the Standard and Deluxe Kits, there are "Also Purchasing Spar" and "Not Purchasing Spar" options. If you plan to order the aluminum spar, the "Also Purchasing Spar" kit does not have certain parts that are replaced by items in the Spar Kit.

Standard kit includes: rudder gudgeons and pintles, rudder stop, sliding gooseneck, track and stops, jam cleats, traveler block, fairleads, eye straps, mainsheet blocks, mainsheet swivel block on plate, tiller bolt, and bronze mast support bolts with wing nuts. The kit also includes running rigging for traveler, halyards, and sheets in hand friendly "yacht braid".
Deluxe kit include all of the above except the mainsheet swivel block on plate, which is replaced by a pivoting cam cleat with fairlead.
Spar Kit: Includes custom extruded aluminum mast with base, gooseneck, jam cleats, and fasteners. All parts ready for assembly, with instructions.Shipping weight under 25 lbs. Must be shipped truck freight due to size.

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Sloop Rig
Hardware Kits: In addition to the Standard and Deluxe Kits, there are "Also Purchasing Spar" and "Not Purchasing Spar" options. If you plan to order the aluminum spar, the "Also Purchasing Spar" kit does not have certain parts that are replaced by items in the Spar Kit.

Standard Kit includes: Rudder gudgeons and pintles, rudder stop, gooseneck, jam cleats, mast tangs, traveler line, tiller bolt, chainplates, masthead sheave with pin, eye straps, bow plate, jib halyard block, mainsheet blocks with straps, sheet traveler block, fairlead on slide with track, and swivel eye block on deck plate.
Deluxe Kit includes all of the above except that the fairlead on slide with track and swivel eye block on deck plate are replaced by sliding jib cams on track and a pivoting cam cleat for a "hands free" sheets.
Rigging Kit: Includes all stainless steel shrouds and forestay with swaged fittings and forestay turnbuckle, shroud adjusters, all hayards, traveler, and all sheets of "yacht braid" line. Rigging ready for installation.

Spar Kit: Includes a custom extruded aluminum mast, masthead fitting with sheaves, hound fitting, mast tangs, gooseneck, end cap, jam cleats, jib halyard block and fasteners. All parts ready for assembly, with instructions.Shipping weight under 25 lbs. Must be shipped truck freight due to size.

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Sails, all versions: The Bull's-Eye sails are made from Dacron and includes insignia and sail bag. Available for Cat, Sloop, or Sprit rigs.

You can go through the list of what they can ship you, decide which items on the list would be easier to get locally, and have all rest shipped to your door. I think Bull's Eye would be very easy to build ought to sail just fine.

[Garp]

hi JimD, thank you for the reply.

About the kits, the import taxes for Europe are prohibitive so i was thinking on building the entire boat without kits. When you've built yours, did you use them?

[Graham Knight]

I think you're right not to buy the kit, the shipping and import duty will make it very expensive, and building from scratch is not at all difficult it just takes a little longer.
I have to admit buying the frame kit and hardware would make it very easy, but I looked into it before I built mine and the cost really was prohibitive, fine if you live in the USA but we don't!
The plans are very cheap, cheaper than those from most other suppliers, and even with the shipping and tax they are still reasonably priced.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Garp:
hi JimD, thank you for the reply.

About the kits, the import taxes for Europe are prohibitive so i was thinking on building the entire boat without kits. When you've built yours, did you use them?I bought most of the kits for the sailboat, yes. I don't know how your European union importation laws work but there are at least a few Selway-Fisher boats I'd like to build so maybe you should look for a design closer to home.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Graham Knight:
I think you're right not to buy the kit, the shipping and import duty will make it very expensive, and building from scratch is not at all difficult it just takes a little longer.
I have to admit buying the frame kit and hardware would make it very easy, but I looked into it before I built mine and the cost really was prohibitive, fine if you live in the USA but we don't!
The plans are very cheap, cheaper than those from most other suppliers, and even with the shipping and tax they are still reasonably priced.I would not recommend buying a frame kit or epoxy or any wooden parts. However fasteners, rigging and hardware kits make sense. You cannot manufacture them yourselves and buying from the designer's own store makes shopping a lot easier.