Square boats - plank on frame?

[seb]

Dear forum users,

I have posted this to the build/repair forum as well. I hope it is not too annoying.

I am rather new to the whole topic of boat building and design - and looking arround at different type of boats, I realised that I do like the square type designs by Bolger (and other similar ones). What I do like about them is the simplicity of lines, rugged look (and behaviour I hope), the flat bottom and the (apparent) simplicity of construction. However, I prefer traditional plank on frame construction methods - so, I was wondering - is it possible to build these type of boats in carvel construction? - as, say, some old fashion dutch style boats, or old scows, skiffs etc. Can these designs be built in carvel straight from the existing plans, or they would need serious adaptiation (e.g. beyond the means of a beginner). Are there any people who have attempted something like this already? Are there any similar designs (old or new) which have been drawn specifically for plank on frame? To be more precise, I am refering to boats such as Micro, AF2 (by Michalak) and similar types of hull.

I know my post is rather vague, and that there are a large number of variables - such as the expertise of the builder, what the boat is to be used for, the type of timber to be used and others - but any oppinions or guidance in this direction is much appreciated.

Many thanks for taking the time to read my post, and possibly to reply,

Seb

[On Vacation]

Welcome and I saw one of those boats, I think one time. There is a fellow on the board that owns one. Maybe he will chime in. Those square boats have been built with cedar planking before, the scows and such. BUt the plywood and epoxy is a lighter boat, can sit on a trailer, and requires less engine to move it.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/pcc9e921168da536ae9ee1798a2ee7f4e/fd7d3def.jpg

[seb]

Thanks Oyster,

I am aware that plywood boats are cheaper and lighter, but I just can't get along with the whole idea of chemicals being used. Plank on frame is more labour intensive, but seems more ... err, simple/non-artificial to me.

Seb

[Buddy]

Yeah, but... If in design form follows function, it seems in construction, fabrication follows materials. The design in plywood boats "knows" that the fibers in the panels run half in each direct. To go to planks, puts all the fibers , maybe way more than needed, all in one diection. Then you need to add frames, ribbing, glass cloth, whatever to add strength across the grain. More work and more weight in a design whose form took advantage of the properties of the material intended for its construction.

[Wild Dingo]

seb... maybe its not what your thinkin of but Im sorta hopin (for alternative reasons... ie: I want another gander at it :D } that Bob Smalser will chime in an show a pic of his green baby... excellent design and appears as solid as a truck Id almost bet people would prefer to build his in ply but mate its flamin solid just the way it is in solid planks!

Bob... rip up here and post a pic! :cool: okay an while yer at it mate how about all the info to? size planks length yarda yarda... Im still wonderin wether or not to have a go at buildin one with some of this wood Ive got layin about... heavy as buggary and stong as an ox know what I mean? ;)

Edited to add... maybe Bob or someone with him will sit and draw a pic with measurements and such? yeah yeah askin a lot I know but still shes a beauty and like what young Roger did with his dads Nix would be a great thing to share it with your mates eh? :cool:

[ 12-19-2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[John Bell]

My opinion is if you want a plank on frame boat, then build one of the many excellent designs drawn for that style of construction.

Converting something like a Micro to plank is not a great idea. What you'll wind up with will be heavier than the designer intended, and may not perform up to expectaions. It will be much more wasteful of materials than plywood (and therefore worse for the environment, IMO).

Other than the resourcinol glues used in plywood, I don't know what you mean about the chemicals compared to plank on frame. Besides, you've still got to paint the darn thing no matter what you make it out of. The VOC's from the paint are just about as bad as anything else you might use.

[seb]

John,

I agree with your suggestions - I would quite like building a traditional looking craft - would it be a dory, a sharpie, a sailing scow?

As regarding to the chemicals question, I was thinking more along the lines of linseed oil for above water, and tar/bitumen below water - more like traditional treatment.

Sebastian

[John Bell]

William and John Atkin have a bunch of designs that are either carvel, batten seam, or lapstrake. Since they were designed for cross planked bottoms and other more traditional methods, you wouldn't be compromising anything by choosing one of theirs. And nobody draws a flat bottom boat like the Atkins.

[seb]

John,

Thanks for the tip. The Atkin designs did pop up during my searches on the web. However, they don't seem to have a book (in print) listing their various designs, so what would be the best way to get a hold of a listing of their designs, to have some sort of an idea of what is available (length, hull type, basics etc.).

Seb

[Mark Van]

Atkin illustrated catalog
from an add in the classified section of WoodenBoat

Atkin & co. P.O. box 3005wb, Norton, CT 06820

Also, any of the old MotorBoating Ideal series books, mostly Atkin designs, complete plans. The books are hard to find, I have a few.

[ 12-19-2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Mark Van ]

[seb]

Thanks,

There seems to be a bit of an issue, because they don't accept foreign currency, but surely there is a way around that.

Thanks again,

Seb

[TimothyB]

Seb,

You can have a cashier's check made in US dollars by your bank. Its easy and painless and they will handle the currency exchange.

--T

[Meerkat]

seb; Have you looked at Selway-Fisher's online catalogue at http://www.selwayfisher.com? (http://www.selway-fisher.com?)

[ 12-20-2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Mike Dawson]

seb, As some others have said, William & John Atkins have designed many boats that fit your wishes. I was fortunate to recently have found a copy of the Ideal Boat Series Vol #33 by searching one of several websites that list the inventories of old book stores (http://www.abebooks.com/). Maybe you be lucky enough to find some copies in the UK.
The Ideal series books have the plans and building instructions for each design presented. The series was geared to easy and economical building by amateur builder. For an index and links to pictures of many of the designs: http://www.boat-links.com/Ideal/index.html
For a more recent V bottom planked Atkins design (a little larger than you want but representative of the designs found in the Ideal series):http://media18.hypernet.com/mywb/scripts/show.asp?state=detail&boatid=1819