Another Dreamer looking for a Daysailer

[Steven R]

As I mentioned on another post, I have been looking for that ideal design for over a year (I know... who of us haven't been, right?). Every time I think I've found "The One", either something eventually turns me off about it, or I find another that intrigues me. the problem is that I have another year before I'll be able to come up with the funds, so all I can do is look.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw it out to the masses. Here are my requirements:

- LOA: 16' - 19' (My shop is 20' long)
- This design will be used as a family daysailer (4 - 6 people) and by two for weekend camp-cruising.
- Good storage ability (camping gear for a weekend).
- A seating/accomodations arrangement that easily and comfortably allows for sleeping aboard (tent, cabin, or cuddy/tent combination).
- Easily Trailerable (The boat will be on a trailer when not being sailed).
- Easy to Launch from trailer
- Easily Rigged (no more that 30 minutes). A tabernacle setup would be ideal
- Either a self-draining cockpit or a means for keeping gear and sleeping area out of the water.
- Shallow draft (under 2')
- Beachable (no single keels. Pair of bilge keels, ok)
- Centerboard (No daggerboards)
- Traditional Looks
- Building method of Lapstrake or Clinker Plywood, or Strip
- Easily carry a small outboard (not thrilled by motorwells that sit in the cockpit with the crew)

The uses I imagine for this design are:

- Daysailing with the family and anchoring off a beach for a picinic and swimming.
- Exploring rivers and estuaries under power
- Cruising the Maine Trail for a long weekend with one of the guys, camping in or out of the boat.

The following designs do not nesessarily have all of the requirements. Some I'm not even sure you can get plans for. Other contributions are welcome.
Pathfinder (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pathfinder/index.htm)

Walkabout (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm)
D18 Myst (http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/buildd18.htm)
Heir Island Sloop (http://www.ilenyachts.com/HEIRBOATS.HTM)
Core Sound 17 (http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm)
Cape Cutter 19 (http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm)
Norfolk Gypsy (http://www.charlieward-trad-boats.co.uk/HTML/Frames/Newboatsframe.html)
Shilling (http://www.willowbayboats.co.uk/shilling.htm)
Sea Pearl (http://www.marine-concepts.com/sp21.html)
Baltic Lugger (http://www.selway-fisher.com/BALTIC)
Snapper (http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/gallery?KID=38)
Ataraxia (http://benho2.tripod.com/Ataraxia/ataraxia_review.htm)
Kittiwake 16 (http://www.kittiwakeboats.co.uk/)
18' Oyster Sloop (http://www.greatwoodboats.com/csb01.jpg)

[Steven R]

Forgot about the 6M Whaler (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/6m_whaler/index.htm)

[StevenBauer]

You seem to be missing all the Iain Oughtred designs that fit your criteria. Just off the top of my head, Elfin, Caledonia Yawl and Fulmar. Have you seen Iain's design catalog? Lots of good reading there.

Steven

[PVanderwaart]

You seem to have omitted the Welsford Sweet Pea. Not traditional enough, I suppose.

The Bolger Chebacco:
http://www.instantboats.com/chebacco.html There is a glued ply lapstrake version, if you prefer.

One comment on your specs: 30 minutes is a big handicap if it takes that long every time. It gets to be a psychological barrier to getting on the water. In a boat this size, the limit should be more like 15 minutes. (Just when you finish your 30 minutes of setup, some idiot will arrive and monopolize the ramp for a while.) I would put the weight limit at about 1500lbs, or maybe 2000lbs for boat plus trailer. The bigger the boat, the more energy you need to put into optimizing the rig and triler to keep launching time and difficulty in check.

[Thorne]

Very similar to Ian's designs are boats by this Welsh outfit -- check out the Storm Petrel 19!

http://www.swallowboats.com/storm19.htm

But if you don't like the motor in a well, for any double-enders you'll need to go for an awkward bolt-on bracket.

Overall sounds like the Welsford Navigator-design family might be best - Pathfinder being the best bet but a TIGHT fit in a garage that size.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/index.htm

My garage is 19' long (well, the open space), but I'm finding that fitting a 14' boat in there to be workable but cramped. You gotta give yourself room to get around the ends -- I missed that bit in my calculations.

;)

[ 12-02-2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Billy Bones]

You've overlooked the Caledonia Yawl (http://www.mavc2002.com/caledoniayawl/) which offers probably the most boat for the least time and expense investment of any on your list.

Good luck

[Thorne]

Build a 19' 6" boat in a 20' garage???

;- )

Not that it isn't nice, but if he doesn't like outboards in wells, sure seems like a boat with a transom would be a better choice.

I suspect that the Pathfinder might just be MY next boat...

[ 12-03-2005, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Billy Bones]

Well, the Norfolk Gypsy is 19' 10" long. A double ender will fit much more comfortably on the diagonal than any transomed boat in the same space, so the slightly shorter Cape cutter 19 will prove to be much bigger in the space.

And the motor well in CY doesn't intrude on the cockpit at all.

I'm not suggesting CY is the ultimate solution, just worthy of consideration. To my mind it answers many of the stated criteria better than some of those suggested.

Good luck choosing.

[Rancocas]

I am intrigued with the 18' Oyster sloop, but all I see is a picture of a beautiful boat.
Can you give more details on her?

[almeyer]

My garage is 19' long (well, the open space), but I'm finding that fitting a 14' boat in there to be workable but cramped. I found the same thing, both during the build, and now that the boat sits on a trailer. But for 4-6 people, a 14-footer is too small, in my opinion.
Al

[ 12-02-2005, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: almeyer ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Billy Bones:
Well, the Norfolk Gypsy is 19' 10" long. A double ender will fit much more comfortably on the diagonal than any transomed boat in the same space, so the slightly shorter Cape cutter 19 will prove to be much bigger in the space.

And the motor well in CY doesn't intrude on the cockpit at all.

I'm not suggesting CY is the ultimate solution, just worthy of consideration. To my mind it answers many of the stated criteria better than some of those suggested.

Good luck choosing.Ayup! ;)

Wayne
Totally satisfied with Elisabeth Grace in Texas. :D

[Steven R]

Thanks for the input (keep it coming). Yes, I agree that some designs in my list are unreasonable given my shop-size limitation. I include them to illustrate what I like. Unfortunately, the ones that attract me the most are the ones I don't think you can get plans for (ex. Atarxia, Kittiwake 16). I also like the Oyster Sloop, but that image is all I have on it (anyone have more info?)

[YMT]

"Summer Afternoon" 22'7" Sharpie schooner. http://brad.smugmug.com/photos/36961085-M.jpg

[Steven R]

Hey wait.... there's a lapstrake version of Chebacco? Still big for my shop, though... damn!!!

Regarding all the double-enders that were mentioned, as much as I love the looks (as illustrated by the fact that I have some in my list) I am not a fan of motorwells or the cost of the setup for rigging an outboard off a pointy end, but feel that with a young family I need the security of a backup motor.

[Wild Dingo]

Now Yves THAT is what Ive been after for all these years!!! :cool:

argh ye swabs she maybe small in size mateys but by gar she be salty! ;)

[Steve Paskey]

How about the lapstrake yawl version of Karl Stambaugh's Meadowbird? Looks are similar to Ataraxia, but she's 16' long, a better fit for your shop. See: Meadowbird (http://www.cmdboats.com/mbirdk.htm?cart_id=50d53ffeb13bec4edf00801f5c435c5 1)

http://www.cmdboats.com/images/mb_lapstrakekit.gif

[ 12-03-2005, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Howard Sharp]

I'm building a Chebacco in a doublewide 20' garage (It's actually a bit longer but there's a workbench accross the full width of the garage). The building frame is on strong wheels. When I'm not working I leave the boat on the diagonal, and there's a couple of inches to spare with the door shut. When I'm working I have the door open so I can pull the boat forward 4' and get round the stem. Double ended boats like the Caledonia yawl are easier to put on the diagonal, because the pointy ends go in the corners so nicely. In fact I think several of Iain's boats have been designed to fit the available workplace. Anyway, a 19' 6" boat can be built in a 20' garage!

[Steven R]

I've heard Meadowbird is a bit cramped for two to camp cruise. I'm accustomed to sleeping in a backpacking tent, but I'm also 6'5". Anyone have any first hand experience?

Howard, glad you chimed in. I've been wondering if a portable jig setup would work. I have exactly 20'6" x 1 car garage, so it still may be too tight in my situation.

[Steve Paskey]

Re Meadowbird as a camp cruiser . . . You mentioned that you'd consider a cockpit tent rather than a cabin. If you eliminate the cabin on Meadowbird, rearrange the interior and add a tent, she's potentially a nifty open camp cruiser, with two big advantages over most similar boats -- she has a self-bailing cockpit, and the centerboard is below the sole and wouldn't be in the way.

[Meerkat]

Ataraxia is sweet! smile.gif

[Philip Maynard]

I bought a set of Oyster plans about 6 months ago from John Leather and as was previously mentioned on the forum the picture shown is of a boat that was lengthened with a cuddy added - the original plans show a 16'-9 1/2" open boat.

[brian.cunningham]

Another sharpie
CLC's John's Sharpie (http://www.clcboats.com/boats/sharpie.php/cart_id=bcebf3a1ea315f1390fe7d3e35cfca09/)
http://www.clcboats.com/images/boats/sharpie-2.jpg
Length: 18' 1"
Beam: 4' 6"
Draft: 6" (board up),3' 6" (board down)
Weight: approx. 200 lbs. (rigged)

[Steven R]

Originally posted by Steve Paskey:
Re Meadowbird as a camp cruiser . . . You mentioned that you'd consider a cockpit tent rather than a cabin. If you eliminate the cabin on Meadowbird, rearrange the interior and add a tent, she's potentially a nifty open camp cruiser, with two big advantages over most similar boats -- she has a self-bailing cockpit, and the centerboard is below the sole and wouldn't be in the way.Definately worth considering. I guess I should fork-up the $5 to download the study plans, huh?

[David Bixby]

Hey wait.... there's a lapstrake version of Chebacco? Still big for my shop, though... damn!!! Check out this guy's lapstrake Chebacco. It looks like his shop is pretty maxed out by it, but that didn't seem to prevent him doing quality work.

Gray Cat (http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gcobb/)

[David Bixby]

If you could build a rolling cradle on some big industrial casters, you could roll the project out the garage door a bit when you need extra room to work on the ends.

[Steven R]

Originally posted by David Bixby:
If you could build a rolling cradle on some big industrial casters, you could roll the project out the garage door a bit when you need extra room to work on the ends.Hey David,

I think that's what Howard was describing above. Gray Cat sure is neat looking, huh? A Chebacco is probably more boat than I need, but I like the concept... a catboat-looking design with the sailing ability of a yawl.

[David Bixby]

I sure like the looks of the Storm 19 mentioned above and the Storm 17 (http://www.swallowboats.com/storm17.htm) from swallow boats.

Check out these family friendly interior shots:

Storm 17 with spray hood. (http://www.swallowboats.com/stm17sprayhood.htm)

[ 12-04-2005, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: David Bixby ]

[Dan Cavins]

Hey Steven. One more idea to add may be the NIS-18. This was, and still can be, a cat boat rig but Robert at nisboats.com has worked up a cat-ketch version that is pretty cool I think. The boat would meet a lot of your criteria. These boats are made to be trailer sailors. With the tabernacle and freestanding masts you don't have to spend more time setting up than sailing. I built the 23 but have to admit that if the 18 ketch version were around I would have thought about it. Might be worth a look. Dan.