Looking for inspiration

[dmede]

A few issues ago there was an article in WB on two small beach cruiser/ camp cruiser sail boats. They were long and narrow, lap sided I think with a good setup for camping on board (integral tents, covers, small platform berths for sleeping bags and pads etc…).

Well, I want exactly what those boats had, except in a small outboard (or inboard). I’m looking for 16’ to 18’. Home buildable. Seaworthy enough to handle a good chop on the SF bay (or take out to Monterey). Beachable. Customizable so that it can be a sleep aboard camp boat or be cleared of all camp apparatus for an open cockpit to facilitate fishing or just cruising. Should be very good looking ;)

Ok go!

[John Bell]

I've been working on designing a similar boat, but primarily as an inland river cruiser. The hull form is very dory-like, with a second chine above the waterline. It has solid house structures fore and aft and a large open center area with canvas covering for sleeping. Power for this 22'er is supposed to be a 5HP four-stroke outboard mounted in a well just forward of the transom. She'll have two substantial skegs with integral rudders for steering.

For a boat for going 'outside', I think I'd want a bit more displacement than this boat possibly in the form of water ballast in a deeper hull. Problem is, then HP and fuel requirements go up as well.

[Wiley Baggins]

Reflexively I'll say a Poulsbo, but there is also the Bartender, the Tolman Skiff, the...

Edited to add:

I'm not sure that "small outboard" and offshore/SF Bay go together. Both the Bartender and the Tolman Skiff may require a bit more power (inboard and outboard respectively) than you want. Paul Gartside has a nice work skiff (http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#mackenzie) and [Nigel] Warington Smyth had a design published in "Yachting Monthly"(?) ages ago that was reproduced for a "Classic Boat" design contest. I'll see if I can find the "Classic Boat" issue for you.

[ 09-01-2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

[Popeye]

schaa - wing

http://www.woodenboatsandcanoes.com/left_side.jpg

[ 09-01-2004, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: popeye ]

[Meerkat]

http://www.devlinboat.com/noddy.gif

Our Noddy has been designed for use on Puget Sound. It is my intention that she could sit handily on a mooring through rainstorm and sun without becoming a hassle. Her keel allows beaching and isolates wear in one very strong and maintainable spot, the bottom of the keel. An interesting point is her lockable cabin door that actually hinges down as a flat seat and then up to the rear cabin framing to form a watertight door. This is useful when on a mooring and to make a cabin for informal cruising. The cabin sole is almost 8' long and has plenty of room for a couple of air mattresses and sleeping bags. Outside, the cockpit is self-bailing and has good access to the 40-50 hp. long shaft outboard. Under the rear deck there is room to store a 12 gallon fuel tank. With trailering weight under 1000 lbs., in essence, she is simple, designed to be used and shows a good turn of speed with reasonable power.

Also available in 18' and 20' versions. Noddy Beach Cruiser
LENGTH 16'
BEAM 7' 3
DRAFT 14"
POWER 50 HP Outboard
SPEED 22 Knots
WEIGHT 928 LBS
MAX. LOAD 840 LBS

Plans: Study, $15; Build, $85.

Devlin Designing Boat Builders (http://www.devlinboat.com/)

[John Bell]

Tracy O'Brien's KAYLIEGH is a nice boat. Don't know how suitable it would be for SF bay, though.

http://www.tracyobrien.com/uploads/kay.jpg

Can be built with either a displacement or planing hull. At 18' LOA it's really more a solo boat IMO. Something along the same lines 4-6 feet longer on the same midsection would be better if you wanted to have companion along.

Devin's NODDY seems nice, but oh my, is that a little bitty boat.

[Wiley Baggins]

The issue of "Classic Boat" referenced above by me is No. 167 from May 2002. The design by Nigel Warington Smyth was SARACEN. There is also a very nice design by Martin Castle (one of the judges of the above referenced competition) that is a bit like a smaller version of some of the cabin powerboats on the Gartside Boats page linked above (18'6" -vs- 20'+). I don't have the issue in which the winning design was announced, but I think it was a fairly easy to construct (one of the competition's goals) fishing boat.

Pete Culler designed a couple of outboard skiffs (Light-16' and Heavy-18') that might suit your fancy and the ubiquitous Simmons Sea Skiff might meet your needs as well.

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by Dave Fleming:
Might as well go first class with a nice Sea Bright Skiff or Jersey Sea Skiff.That's a great suggestion, Dave(and it's genuinely beachable which isn't true for some of my suggestions). It crossed my mind, but didn't make it to the keyboard. I guess that's why (among a multitude of other reasons) I'm not O&O West. ;)

[ 09-01-2004, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

[TR]

small beach cruiser/ camp cruiser sail boats. Heads up!!! :eek:

Tad

[dmede]

Here are some of my own submissions along with thier pro's and cons:

http://NEXUSmarine.com/images/21%27dory/exterior s/gone_fishing.jpg (http://NEXUSmarine.com/images/21%27dory/exteriors/gone_fishing.jpg)
this could be my favorite right now. good open deck, great looking boat. seaworthy and beachable. cabin is crampt for actual sleeping in (2 people). no plans, must buy built from nexus.

<a href="http://www.harrybryan.com/harrybryan/16.5%20rambler.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.harrybryan.com/harrybryan/16.5%20rambler.jpg[/UR L]
Harry is my new boat related hero. I love this boat. Traditionally built, small inboard deisel is nice. pLans avail. Mostly for inland waterways I suspect. Not a camp boat, not beachable. Really meets none of my requirments but I love it non the less.

[URL=http://www.classicboatshop.com/brokerage/calibogue4.jpg]http://www.classicboatshop.com/brokerage/calibogue4.jpg[/UR L]
seaworthy, good looking and traditionaly built but i don't know carvel planking, only lap. could be camped on easily, obviously looks good with a custom tent cover.

[URL=http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/fish18e.jpg]http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/fish18e.jpg</a>
dont know much about this one but it looks promising in terms of size and capability. any info?

http://www.oldwharf.com/images/oldwharfboat3.jpg
sea skiff. great boat, very seaworthy, beachable, plans avail.

So, these are the one I go between the most right now.
This is more an excercise in fantasy but I love see what you guys come up with.

[ 09-01-2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

rt555555555555555555555555555555555555555 http://www.centuryboatclub.com/decade/clinker/53viking2.jpg

[mmd]

Hit 'em again, Tad. :rolleyes: :D

[ 09-01-2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: mmd ]

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by TR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />small beach cruiser/ camp cruiser sail boats. Heads up!!! :eek:

Tad</font>[/QUOTE]Originally posted by mmd:
Hit 'em again, Tad. :rolleyes: :D Originally posted by dmede:

Well, I want exactly what those boats had, except in a small outboard (or inboard).I may have overlooked "beachable," but... ;)

[ 09-01-2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

[TR]

"Is it a boy, Emily, or is it a girl?"

I am usually confused, but I still think the posting is ambiguous.

All the best, Tad

[Popeye]

hmmm.. easily confused about ambiguities ... too much bilge fumes i thinks.

[dmede]

Originally posted by TR:
"Is it a boy, Emily, or is it a girl?"

I am usually confused, but I still think the posting is ambiguous.

All the best, TadHey guys, its just a post about boat design options ok. Kind of an excersise in dream boats and to see what fourmites can come up with in terms of their ideal boat that sort of fits my descriptions above.

If you don't follow then please keep that to yourself. It doesn't help to have people post annoying observations about not understanding whats going on and not add anything pertinent. There's only one place for that on this site... the bilge!

Respectfully, Dave.

[Dave Wright]

Dmede,

Interesting quest. Since the Nexus 21 is at the top of your list, but you indicate you're really interested in the 16' -18' range, why not take a look at the early Carolina Dory skiff by William Cofer. You can get a study plan or full plan from Harold Payson (quite inexpensive for either). It's 19'-3" by 5'-101/2".

Reason I mention this plan, is because John Gardner did a National Fisherman article on the Nexus dories (I think in 1987). He said they were based on the "Texas Dory plans." And those particular plans were Cofer's original Carolina Dory. Looks like Nexus expanded that boat to 21' (and longer). Wonderfully done boats at Nexus, but so expensive.

The Cofer design appears to have a nicer sheer line than the Glen-L "Sweet Caroline" too. You could probably work up a very minimal low cuddy of your own to suit. But gosh, you may have to go slower than you want with that flat bottom if you're to traverse SF Bay type stuff.

Let us all know what you finally decide on.

Dave Wright

[mmd]

OK, I'll be more specific. Sorry for the terse previous reply.

What speed do you wish to attain?
How many people do you want to carry when fishing/camping/cruising?
What is your boatbuilding skills level?
Do you have any preferences of building materials/style?
How much horesepower do you want to afford?
Will this boat live in the water or be a trailer-sailer?

[dmede]

Ahh, another lead. I forgot about the Sweet Caroline. Before finding the Nexus boats I was very interested in that boat as well. I can't seem to find a similar design on Paysons web site however.

The flat bottom would be a problem in the chop but over all it is a capable seaworhty shape. I think the Simmons Sea Skiff addresses this with a small V shape entry.

[dmede]

mmd, I should have been more specific in describing this as an excersie in futility ( I mean fantasy). I am not looking for a boat to build right away, just trying to nail down what I want next. I seem to drift between these different types of boats and wondered what would forumites come up with if I asked for a design that could do it all.

But to answer some of your questions:
Not sure on speed, I dont need to blaze around thats for sure
it should camp 2 people comfortably, sit 4 for fishing and cram 6 when needed.
Skill level is beginner, I have built 1 15' glued lap canoe. And am currently building Harry Bryans 12' fiddlehead canoe.
Materials could be traditional or ply epoxy. Probably lap sided or solid ply sided, no carvel, no strip.
HP woudl be tied to speed I guess.
Live on trailer.

[ 09-02-2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Dave Wright]

Dmede, call or e-mail Payson and ask for his "Dory Packet" there's a page in their about it. Nobody seems to look at the dory packet anymore; lot's of old stuff.

I've written up nice lists of specific requirements for my "ideal boat" several times over the years. Then I blithely go out and get a boat that fails to meet one or all of the requirements. Usually sidetracked by impulse, whim, or low price. There doesn't seem to be a solution to it, it's happened multiple times.

Just try to get into a simple boat you'll use a lot while dreaming of something better. It beats having a very much more complicated "something better" that's a pain to use and maintain, and you dream of getting rid of it without losing your shirt.

Dave Wright

[Hal Forsen]

Simmons Sea Skiff as mentioned. Meets all the qualifications and looks good too.
HF

[Bruce Hooke]

One of the versions of Pete Culler's "Fast Outboard for Commodore Percy Chubb" could be a very nice solution. I was on board a boat built to this design in Kachemak Bay, Alaska and it struck me as a very seaworthy and handy craft. It was desfinitely beachable as it landed my friend and I on a rocky beach and then picked us up off the same beach a few days later. The one I was in had a small wheelhouse near the front; it was being used by a ferry service that takes parties of hikers and campers from Homer across the bay to Kachemak Bay State Park.

To get a look at this design you would probably need to track down a copy of the book Pete Culler's Boats -- it's long out of print and very expensive on the used book market but it should be available via interlibrary loan or at a library with a good marine collection -- which you may have access to in your area. IIRC his plans are now sold by Mystic Seaport.

[Bruce Hooke]

Bingo! It's been built in many different versions and lengths. I believe the book lists 4 different lengths. I seem to recall a WoodenBoat article about a boat to this design that had a stern wheelhouse, and as I noted, the one I was in in Alaska had a bow wheelhouse...seems like a very verstile design. I did a web search and found that the Alexandria Seaport Foundation seems to be building a version of this design but I did not see any pictures.

A key issue to consider with any design is how much space will be devoted to a dedicated cabin and how much space will be cockpit or dual-use space (meaning a tent of some sort to turn the cockpit into a sleeping area at night). This gets back to the intended use and priorities of the owner...

[dmede]

Thank you Bruce and Dave. That is a promising looking design. I'll have to see if I can get a hold of the book via ILL.

It looks similar to another boat I had in mind, Gardners 16' semi dory. It has a very similar looking shear and stem profile. The semi dory has a small motor well, and a narrow flat bottom.

Bruce, as you mention, a key issue is the configuration of any permamnet cabin versus a removable tent. I liked the tent idea because it allowes for a boat that can be converted from camp boat to open cruiser or fisher. A small permamnent cuddy for storage, head etc. that could be tied into the tent would ideal I suppose.

Thanks again for that design idea.

[Bruce Hooke]

You're welcome. A key difference between Culler's boat and Gardiner's semi-dory is that the former has a V-bottom, especially near the bow. This will make it more work to build, but it should also make it handle a little better in rough conditions, especially under power.

By the way, according to the book, Culler's design is "standard Chesapeake Bay file-bottom design and construction" so following that lead might well lead you to other similar traditional designs. The book does go on to say "As the old man [Pete Culler] said, 'It is all a matter of chine run, spray-rail placement, herringbone bottom, lapstrake sides, and keeping the construction light but strong.'" So, if you go looking for other Chesapeake Bay file-bottoms you should probably try to find designs by people who understand the type...

[DougWilde]

Funny you mentioned Capt'n Pete's boat for recently I was searching through Wouldn'tFloat and issue #68 (Jan/Feb 86) has that boat featured in an article starting on page 80. Lots of photos. I was looking for possible mechanized craft for the Chesapeake.
As far as a copy of the book, make an interlibrary loan request and park yourself in front of a photocopier.

Doug Wilde