Suitable wood

[William H]

Hello all,

I have been searching the archives for a source for a book that explains / compares the different properties of wood that is suitable for boatbuilding. I have not found what I am looking for. Anyone have an idea for a good book on wood properties? I plan to build a Simmons Sea Skiff (first boat) and wanted to research wood.

Thanks
William

[gary porter]

William, most any of the good books on boat building will have a section at the begining on proper wood to use and some not so proper. Boat Building Manual by Steward might be a good book to have and a good reference, There are many. Another good reference if you have a source for a particular wood and want to know its uses or properties concerning boatbuilding workability and such would be the Guide to Useful Woods of the World by Holder and Flynn. EdenSaw sells this book but Amazon and other do as well. World Woods in Color is another good one for this purpose. As far as the Simmons Sea Skiff, I was under the impression that these were usually ply built. If this is the case then I'd say go for the best ply you can afford or hope to afford such as Okoume BS1088 etc. Marine ply. At least use a marine grade ply even if its Fir.
Gary

[Venchka]

Maybe you should look around and see what's avaliable to you and then do a little research to find out if the wood is suitable. You can drive yourself crazy trying to locate the "perfect" wood when what is at hand is plenty good enough. Ask me how I know. :rolleyes: Another thread here mentioned Houston Hardwood recently. Are they handy?

If the boat uses plywood, weight isn't a concern and a few extra dollars can be squeezed out of the budget, Shelmarine Lloyd's Approved sapele from Harbor Sales in Maryland is as good as plywood gets. Truck freight won't hurt too much.

Good Luck!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by William H:
I have been searching the archives for a source for a book that explains / compares the different properties of wood that is suitable for boatbuilding. I have not found what I am looking for. Anyone have an idea for a good book on wood properties?The standard reference is

1999. Wood Handbook: Wood As An Engineering Material. General technical report FPL ; GTR-113. Madison, WI : U.S. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Forest Products Laboratory: xi, [463] pages : ill. ; 28 cm.

You can buy a very nice Smythe-bound copy from Lee Valley Tools (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=45997&category=1,46096,46127&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=) (USD 22.95)

You can buy a copy from the United States Government Printing Office (http://bookstore.gpo.gov/index.html), too. Search the Sales Product Catalog for "FPL-GTR-113". It should come up as the first hit. From the GPO, it's USD 50.00 for US residents, USD 70.00 for non-residents. L-V has a better price and probably better binding.

If you're too cheap to buy a copy, you can download it from the FPL as a series of PDF files (1 per chapter, plus 1 each for the front matter, glossary and index). The URL is http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113 /fplgtr113.htm (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm) — if you have to pay for printing it, though, its probably cheaper to buy the hardbound version from L-V (463 pages at a dime per page is nearly 50 dollars.)

Or, you can always drop in to the Big Brick Building with All the Books (http://www.hcpl.lib.tx.us/index.htm).

Your local branch looks to be the Barbara Bush branch at Cypress Creek (http://www.hcpl.lib.tx.us/branchinfo/cc/ccinfo.htm):

6817 Cypresswood Drive
Spring, TX 77379
(281) 376-4610

And [quick search of the card catalog] it looks like your branch has 1 copy &mdash; it's in the reference section, the call number is "<span style="font-family:monospace;">674.8 Woo".

Hope this helps!

[ 08-25-2004, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

[RonW]

http://www.glen-l.com/

Go to glen-l's home page, and look for wood and lumber info. They have the entire chapter 5 from their book on boatbuilding on their website and you can copy it for free. It gives you a comparison on different woods as to weight, rot resistance, fastener holding ability and so forth. If this is your first boat, glen-l's book - boatbuilding with plywood - would be well worth you getting, good luck.

P.S, - I have the plans for all 3 of the simmons, I would advise to defintely go with the 20 footer, which is 19-4 as I remember and with the extra strake on the side or referred to as the high side. Much roomier and capable boat, and not really much more work or material for what you are getting.You will be glad that you did.

[ 08-25-2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: RonW ]

[Venchka]

One more piece of the puzzle. Here is a link to the Forest Service Wood Anatomy Research Center. It's a collection of 1-2 page summaries of just about any wood you might find in North America. Domestic & imports. These pages list strength values, shrinkage, durability, etc., etc.

Wood Facts (http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/)

Another source, but sometimes he's hard to find because he's out cutting wood. Texas Mesquite Lumber in Willis, TX. They used to have osage orange.

Good luck!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[William H]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will start doing my research!

Venchka, Yes, Houston Hardwoods is very close. About 10 minutes from work!

Thanks again
William

[Jon Etheredge]

Another source, but sometimes he's hard to find because he's out cutting wood. Texas Mesquite Lumber in Willis, TX. They used to have osage orange.
I have a cousin that lives in Willis. I'll have to to try and locate this supplier next time I go to visit my cousin.

This is a sawmill rather than just a reseller right?

Do you happen to have a phone number? Do you know if they saw any species other than mesquite and osage orange?

[Venchka]

Alas, things may have changed for the worse at Texas Mesquite Lumber. $500 minimum. Yikes! No mention of anything except mesquite. Worth a phone call to find out what they are doing these days.

Texas mesquite Lumber (http://www.texasmesquitelumber.com/)

Contact Information
Telephone 936-890-6341
FAX 413-410-6176

Postal address
9589 Countyline Rd.
Willis, TX. 77378

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Jon Etheredge]

Thanks for the info Wayne.

[William H]

Originally posted by RonW:
http://www.glen-l.com/

P.S, - I have the plans for all 3 of the simmons, I would advise to defintely go with the 20 footer, which is 19-4 as I remember and with the extra strake on the side or referred to as the high side. Much roomier and capable boat, and not really much more work or material for what you are getting.You will be glad that you did.Wood!! you like to sell a set of your plans?

[RonW]

Sorry william, but no sale, think I will set on them, you never know I might get the urge to build a boat for playing in the surf. I will add this, for plywood boats they are neat. Simmons devised a real neat construction method. Remeber these are dories with a slight vee bottom. So roughly speaking the 20 footer has a 5 foot bottom and a 8 foot beam. You loose a lot of floor space but gain rough water capabilities. There is also a video the museum has for $20. it is kinda of poor quality, but about 10 minutes of it is a guy playing in the surf with a 22 footer, and he definetly puts the boat through the rough stuff, even one point beaching it, and then pushing it back out and jumping in and back to playing.So they are neat boats, good luck..

Oh yea wood = plywood = douglas fir marine ply, framing = douglas fir, southern yellow pine, cypress, mohagony . Just basic stuff, nothing fancy.

[High C]

Originally posted by William H:
I plan to build a Simmons Sea Skiff (first boat) and wanted to research wood.
William, your home town was named after one of my favorites! Can you get good cypress there? The tight grained, old growth stuff? It's legendary for quality boat building. But avoid the pale, fast growth, wide grained stuff.

You've picked a fine design, too. I'd love to have a Simmons. I grew in the area where those boats were built, the southern part of coastal North Carolina, and we had a plywood skiff that was a poor knockoff of a Simmons. It had the inboard well for the motor, what a great feature.

Good luck!

[ 08-27-2004, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: High C ]

[William H]

High C

You have a better source of Cypress in the swamps of Louisiana. Cypress, Tx is on the Katy prairie, no trees, lots of rice fields and new homes!

[ByronB]

Don't know if the US is as advanced as over here in OZ, :D but we have a Standards Association that publishes standards on almost everything, including marine timbers. The publication contains all the type of information you are looking for. Perhaps the American National Standards Institute has an equivalent that relates to American timbers.

Byron

[William H]

Originally posted by RonW:
. . . .

Oh yea wood = plywood = douglas fir marine ply, framing = douglas fir, southern yellow pine, cypress, mohagony . Just basic stuff, nothing fancy.I can get plenty of Douglas Fir ply and SYP is the wood of choice here in Southeast Texas for just about every project imaginable. Even the big box stores carry a good selection of #1 SYP. I may go that route being this will be my first boat. Keep the mistakes, and $$$ down.

[Venchka]

Search Building/Repair for a guy SE of you in Dickinson (sp?) building a Penobscot 14 with lumber from a locally owned lumber yard. If I remember correctly. A 50-50 shot at best. tongue.gif

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D