TOP HAT DOUG HYLAN DESIGN

[G & T]

I AM CONSIDERING ORDERING PLANS FOR THE TOP HAT.WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HAD ANY EXPERIENCE BUILDING HER. I WOULD REALLY PREFER TO BUILD HER WITH AN INBOARD. THERE'S A LOT OF WASTED SPACE IN THE STERN WITH THE OUTBOARD CONFIGURATION.ANYBODY HAVE ANY THOUGHTS?

[Nicholas Carey]

First off...Dont' SHOUT.

Typing in ALL CAPS is considered 'shouting' and rude on the 'net. Please type in mixed-case as you would a letter.

Type set in ALL CAPS is hard to read because every word is rectangular: mixed-case words are irregular polygons and their shape helps you recognize the word.

I know nothing about TOP HAT...But if it was designed as an outboard, modifying the design as an inboard means a huge shift in center of balance (and probably waterline). You will probably add to the next weight of the vessel, not to mention its complexity. If you're going to do it, pay the designer to do the mod you want -- or pay attention to his reasons why he's not willing to entertain the notion. This is not a minor change.

Further, if it's like the Hylan garvey, all that 'wasted space' back by the O/B is dedicated to (1) ensuring that if the the boat is swamped it floats with the motorhead above water (something that could save you several thousands of dollars) and (2) floats, swamped, level (something that could save your life.)

[rbgarr]

From reading the 'Designs' article in WB 168, I'd guess that only one TOP HAT has been built. I agree that any changes such as you imagine would be best discussed with the designer Doug Hylan.

Given that, I agree that alot of space is given over in the stern to the 50 hp engine. I myself would be satisfied without the varnish, the sliding forward hatch, and the crowned engine house. Instead of that last item I'd mount a canvas cover on metal stays. In addition, I'd try to find more space in the cockpit by mounting a fore and aft tiller (or wheel, more likely) along the starboard coaming instead of a wheel on a console, but that's just me.

In our current 19' open boat I've got a small side console with v-berths forward of it. On outings I sit in a chair or stand to starboard, while my wife sits or sunbathes on the v-berth to port. With the quiet 4-stroke outboard we can easily talk to one another and share the experience better. I often see center consoles where the husband is aft at the wheel behind a windshield and bank of electronics while the wife is forward on a forward-facing console seat. They might as well not be in the same boat!
Again, my opinion only.

[ 02-11-2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[dcobbett]

G & T,

Check with Doug Hylan. My recollection is that his Top Hat has some basis in Harry Bryans Handy Billie, which was based on Wm. Hands Piute III, which was inboard powered. I agree with your comment about lost space in the stern, but these are narrow hulls and I’m not sure how practical or useable that space may actually be.

I was at Hylan’s shop a week or so before they launched Top Hat and I was very impressed with what I saw. I couldn’t get back there for the launching/trials, but I understand that the boat went (over the road) to an owner somewhere on Long Island, NY. Has anyone seen the boat, or know anything about its performance since then?

[Keith Wilson]

There have been a bunch of designs lately based on William Hand's V-bottom powerboats. Weston Farmer's take on Hand's Piute III is similar to Top Hat, but with inboard power. I'm sure it's not drawn for "modern" construction using epoxy, but I'd bet one could convert it fairly easily. If you can get a copy of Farmer's "From My Old Boat Shop", there is an article about the boat with pretty detailed small-scale drawings, and building plans are available from this web site. (http://www.bennettme.com/shoestring/wfpower2.asp), or directly from Weston Farmer's son in Wayzata, MN.

[G & T]

Does anyone know of a source for William Hand plans? Looking for something comparible to Top Hat but with inboard power.

[imported_Phil]

I too thought TOP HAT was a very nice boat. I was/am still thinking about building it after my current project is done.

I sent an email to the designer and he sent an interesting letter back. I was discouraged but not stopped. He said the engine cover would need modification because the engine specifed is no longer manufactured (short shaft 50hp Honda).

I would love to see pictures of that boat or similar. I hope to buy plans this summer or fall.

Phil in Boston

[rbgarr]

I wonder if Yamaha and Suzuki make short shaft 50's. At any rate one might be able to find a used Honda.

A more robust, shorter, slower inboard boat that has a similar profile to TOP HAT is this Paul Gartside design, if you do without the cabin. I'd love to see more info about this boat, too.

http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#jennifer

[rbgarr]

I happened to see PAGAN (the TOP HAT design built at Doug Hylan's shop) a few weeks ago at her mooring on Long Island. 'In the flesh', she was a very balanced design, well built, nicely detailed, with a lot of different places to sit and a moderate sized v-berth in the cuddy. I could see spending weekends aboard, though my wife would consider it pretty spartan. PAGAN looks like an especially good dayboat for a crowd to ride around in.

I was told that the design was originally commissioned by the owner of BURMA, a Charles Davis motorsailer familiar to some WB readers, but never built by him. PAGAN's owner was familiar with a long low hard-chine inboard (mostly decked over) but wanted something with more room for friends. The Handy Billy designs weren't quite what she wanted, IIRC, but when she saw this design she thought it would suit her needs well. She loves the finished boat.

The stern, as someone mentioned above, is narrow enough that the space given over to the motor well is not 'wasted', IMO. Pictures of her underway, and the problem of the non-availability of the short shaft model engine in the 50 hp range make me wonder if a box or deeper keel profile aft might enable running with a slightly larger hp or standard leg length engine.

That will be something I'll take up with Doug Hylan when I talk to him seriously about this design. My next motorboat will be something in this size range, since my 20 footer (just sold) is the wrong length for the distance between wavecrests when the weather gets up where I live.

BTW, Doug Hylan has an optional CD with pictures of the building of PAGAN to go with his plan set.

[ 09-26-2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[rbgarr]

FWIW, I've just learned that these folks are gearing up to build the Top Hat and Handy Billy 21 designs in fiberglass: http://www.southportislandmarine.com/index.htm

[PeterSibley]

I must admit that when I first saw Top Hat my thoughts immediately went to the article WB did on a marine conversion for a Subaru car engine.Light weight and 100hp.If the weight distribution could be got right she would suit my ideas well.I must admit that despite their obvious advantages I really don't like outboards.

[rbgarr]

Now you can get a marinized Subaru four rated at 170 hp. http://www.xcceleration.com/marine.html

Wouldn't need that much for the Top Hat however.

[Keith Wilson]

Weston Farmer drew a nice version of Wm. Hand's Piute, 24' x 6'-6", almost the same boat as Top Hat but with an inboard. You could modify the acomodations, windshield and other peripherals to suit. The line of descent is Hand to Farmer to Bryan then to Doug Hylan, IIRC. Plans are available from Duckworks (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/wf/piute/index.htm), or a reprint of the original magazine article from Dave Goodchild. (http://www.dngoodchild.com/5835.htm) I think it would be very cool with a Subaru motor.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/wf/piute/lines.gif

http://www.dngoodchild.com/5835pic.jpg

Oy, brain fade. Looking above on the thread, I see I posted almost the same thing two years ago. Oh well, the new links I just posted work, anyway.

[ 12-23-2005, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[stumpbumper]

This DN Goodchild plan my be an option for you.
Go Here: (http://www.dngoodchild.com/5742.htm)

[stumpbumper]

Or John Atkin's Ninigret, although outboard, is one of my favorites.

See Ninigret here: (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/Ninigret.html)

or page down to the bottom of this pdf file for a photo (http://www.smallboatforum.com/PDFfiles/SkiffDesigns.pdf)

[ 12-24-2005, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: stumpbumper ]

[PeterSibley]

The thing about the Subaru is that it weighs 270 lb and if the 100 hp is tooooo much just idle around at 2000 rpm /35 hp with good fuel economy and no noise.

[Bill Childs]

The marine Subaru is very cool.... but $11,000 without a gear? Yikes!
A person can buy three brand new Mercruiser 3.0L's (inline Chevy four cyl.) for less than that.

[PeterSibley]

I would reckon $500 for a good one from the breakers yard would do me just fine,as I remember the conversion was pretty reasonable.

[Russ Manheimer]

I think this may be the Doug Hylan design under consideration here:

http://static.flickr.com/35/73506805_800a3f2d28.jpg

I may be mistaken, but whatever she is she sure is a neat boat. I saw her in the Benjamin River near Hylan's shop this past August.

Russ

[ 12-28-2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Russ Manheimer ]

[rbgarr]

I saw her this past summer, too. MARSH HEN was written up in WB ('Launchings', perhaps?) in a past issue, but is not the TOP HAT design. The owner wanted something larger than 26' and with a cabin, etc. so Doug Hylan designed that boat at 28'-30' (?)

Mr. Hylan said that he'd couldn't see building another TOP HAT for less than $80K, so I wonder what that boat ran.