Sailing Canoe Construction Recomendations

[Stephen Hutchins]

Hi all,
I've just drawn a sailing/fishing canoe with a set of lines that I'm most happy with. She measures 13 feet by 3 feet at the sheer, 30 inches at the waterline. The waterlines start up foward with a slight hollow and end quite full back aft. She has a sea kayak like freeboard, with a similar shaped stern, and a more curved bow. She's decked with 4mm ply and has a large cockpit inspired by the Phil Bolger canoe yawl pics posted on the recent thread on canoe yawls, if I remember correctly. So, originally, I was planning on glued lap ply construction over bent frames with rivets. Now that I see the waterlines, I want a smooth hull. Ideally, If I had the money, I'd build both types. But as usual, if I could get one built, it would be a miracle. So now I am considering strip, double plank, traditional and modern clinker. --HELP!--

[garland reese]

While certainly not traditional construction, she sounds to be a good candidate for strip construction with sheathing. I know that many don't really find pleasure in that type, but there are some grand examples of craftsmanship out there in this type, and there is nothing all too difficult about any of it. You can also get by with less than top quality wood.....a thing that most folks have to deal with these days. It is getting harder and more cost prohibitive to get hold of good lumber, as time passes on.

I hope you can get one built Stephen. Sounds like a very nice project. What are the details of the sail rig? Leeboard? Rudder configuration? It sounds interesting to me.....I really like these little boats smile.gif

[Stephen Hutchins]

Hi Garland,
I agree, definately a good strip candidate. She's got a fairly high aspect sprit sail of 41 square feet with a loose foot. I am concernd about this because a lack of battens will make the sail less responsive than what this hull may need. I've been thinking also of a new (to me)way to reef between the mast and sprit by running some lines through the mast and through the sail in an accordian like fashion, to the sprit. We'll see, the rig may elvove some. For now, both spars stow inside the boat. The daggerboard is very small-- foil shaped about the size of a large windsurfing fin, with a top plate, all pushed down flush to the daggerboard case top. Rather than designing alot of reinforcment around the case area, I think I will design the top plate to tear off in the event of a hard grounding; a problem easily fixed by carrying a spare foil on board. Her cockpit is about 7 feet long and roughly 30 inches wide. With a high coaming up foward tappering down low to the deck back aft to accomodate hiking out on deck. There will be some floors in the cockpit area to support 1"x3" strips of Eastern red cedar for the sole --Unpainted, of course, just well sanded for bare feet, or bare bottoms if your a west coast sailor.

[ 08-17-2005, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Hutchins ]

[Stephen Hutchins]

Ok, so to continue on to the rudder: simple, high aspect spade mounted on plumb stem, with a small tiller over the deck extending about one foot into to cockpit. Not much left to fantasize really. Small oak rub rails and for me, I'd paint her hull white and do a high gloss varnish build-up on the deck followed by two coats of satin.

[JimD]

My vote for glued ply lap, no rivets, probably not much in the way of frames, either. Keep it light. Can you post drawings?

[Stephen Hutchins]

Jim,
Sorry I can't post any pics. -Still looking for a profession that pays. On the positive side though, I've got plenty of time to draw! smile.gif I agree with you about not going for rivets and frames from an economy minded point of view, but the old way makes for a much more beautiful, and valuable boat. Also, if epoxy fails 100 yrs down the line, she still could be functional and beautiful.

[JimD]

Stephen, in 100 years from now some of them rivets might need replacing, too! :D

[AndyFarquhar]

I recommend a push-pull tiller. A conventional tiller is a pain in a sailing canoe - it's always in the way.

Regards,

Andy

[Boatmik]

Andy:I recommend a push-pull tiller. A conventional tiller is a pain in a sailing canoe - it's always in the way I agree with you for a small boat of this type where the essence is simplicity. Conventional tillers work fine where you are sitting on the sidedecks to sail (I have done lots of sailing in my BETH sailing canoe which is set up this way - but for a boat where you sit inside and face forward like this - not much fun.

With the push-pull the lateral yoke on the rudderhead should not be too short - it is the tiller - if too short you will be overcorrecting all the time - small push = big turn.

The boat sounds really nice by your description - on such a small boat I would consider a lower aspect sail unless predominantly light winds to keep the heeling moment down. Or to have a larger low aspect sailplan for the same heeling moment and better light wind performance. But high aspect always looks really cool - so depends what you want.

Regarding centreboards BETH is something of a higher speed vessel than you are intending and has more draft - she has "met bottom" quite a few times at speed - a couple of times well over 10 knots - and all the damage has been are some gouges out of the centreboard. There has been no damage to the case. The boat just stops.

Case construction is 6mm ply faces with approx 20mm square western red cedar front and back - So I would not fret too much about breaking things on grounding with the lower speeds involved - probably just need to put a bit of filler in the centreboard to be ready to sail next day.

Hope this helps
Michael

web page (http://www.ozemail.com.au/~storerm)

[Stephen Hutchins]

Andy & Michael:
I'll look into push pull rudder. If I build her strip style I expect she'll plane easily in the right conditions -I've always been able to get small boats and windsurfers planing with the smallest sail areas. Michael thanks for your web link. Did you ever try lifting the centerboard to gain control in overpowering conditions? Just curious, this is what we did in the old days of windsurfing as the centerboard would cause so much lift the board would fly up out of the water and blow over down wind.

[johngsandusky]

Hi. I own a Tom Hill glued lap canoe that had a BSD rig added to it. It sails fast, tacks slow, is very tender. sailing in fresh breezes I have twice split seams. I weigh 245, so there's a lot of stress when I lean to balance the boat. Still my conclusion is that a frameless glued lap plywood hull is not stong enough to sail. I intend to add frames. have fun, John

[johngsandusky]

Hi. I own a Tom Hill glued lap canoe that had a BSD rig added to it. It sails fast, tacks slow, is very tender. sailing in fresh breezes I have twice split seams. I weigh 245, so there's a lot of stress when I lean to balance the boat. Still my conclusion is that a frameless glued lap plywood hull is not stong enough to sail. I intend to add frames. have fun, John

[L.W. Baxter]

John, just curious, when you say you've "split seams" do you mean that the glue is failing or the plywood?

[johngsandusky]

The failure is right at the lap. Part of the plywood edge did break, the rest I'm not sure, I didn't examine it that closely

[Stephen Hutchins]

It's been a long time since I read Tom Hill's book, but If I remember right, the construction was closer to glued multichine construction (without the chine) than lapstrake. I'm sure this is fine for light duty, but the problem with strengh is in glueing end grain ply of one plank to the flat surface of the next. This is a weak joint that obviously needs chines either in the form of wood or glass tape.

[Stephen Hutchins]

It's been a long time since I read Tom Hill's book, but If I remember right, the construction was closer to glued multichine construction (without the chine) than lapstrake. I'm sure this is fine for light duty, but the problem with strengh is in glueing end grain ply of one plank to the flat surface of the next. This is a weak joint that obviously needs chines either in the form of wood or glass tape.