Alden Indian

[Norumbega Boatworks]

Hi All,
I've just acquired an Alden Indian Class sloop, ca, 1939. I haven't come up with too much detailed info yet, re: original finishes, hardware, rig etc. any and all major or minor comments/referrals to info sources etc. gratefully appreciated.

Thanks, Will

--------------------
Will Walton
Norumbega Boatworks

[A. Mason]

The original Alden Indian Class was Design No. 148, "… a one-design sailing dory for various owners. Built by William Chamberlain and by Reed, 1921-1930. (Used at Scituate, Winthrop, South Boston, Hull, Squantum, Sakonnet, and Fenwick yacht clubs.)"

The was another one-design, aka Nantucket One-Design, which was also sometimes called a Nantucket Indian, or Kennebunkport Class [Design #398-21' 2", 39 boats built by George L. Chaisson.] This was a development of #135 [20' 9" loa] and #148.

From "John G. Alden and His Yacht Designs" by Carrick & Henderson.

For plans and specifications, I would suggest contacting Mystic Seaport's Ships Plans Department. They are the conservators of Alden's early work.

Hope this helps,
Anita

[capt jake]

Anita, thank you for all of insightful posts that you have provided us! I have been kinda following your posts, and have a real appreciation for what you are doing!

When you get done with (was it a book, of you fathers writing?) I would love to purchase one.

Thank you Anita!!!!!!
regards,
john

[Thad]

Will, I just sent you an e-mail that didn't say half what Anita did. Since you are in Maine it may be likely that you have a carvel Indian. Chip Flanagan in Portland is quite knowledgeable on them, though approaching a restoration on a boat built as Anita says (Chaissen working from two sets of plans) you must work mostly with what you have. This last Winter I had a similar situation with a Chaissen built boat (Compass sloop, a little Indian at 18' and an S.S. Crocker design) and decided to get offsets from the hulk and build new instead of replacing every piece somehow. You can always come look at the Indian near me here. Good luck.

[Norumbega Boatworks]

Thank you all for the help, a great start, Thad, I sent a private to you. Mine is a carvel model, in remarkably decent condition, mostly restore, not rebuild. Would appreciate continued feedback.

Thanks, Will

[ishmael]

I rebuilt one of the lapped Indians about fifteen years ago. As I remember, much of the design work was Crocker's, working out of Alden's office. Though I don't know who polished it, I imagine it was Crocker from start to finish.

Great boat! Lapstrake cedar, built dory style over sawn frames, with intermediate bent. I replaced the deck and beams, quarter knees and transom, coamings, toerails, and rubrails, with a little minor hull work thrown in. The deck was shiplapped pine covered with canvas, and all the rest was Honduras mahogany.

The rig was similar to the older MA racing dory rigs, with a huge mainsail and tiny jib. Lots of standing rigging though, running backstays and such, to support that cloud of a main. Total sail area was, I think, 230, in a boat that only carried 350 lbs. of lead pigs in the bilge.

Well mannered, and FAST!, especially on a reach. We out-sailed much bigger boats when off the wind the one summer I had her in the water. Very pretty too, with all that varnished mahogany trim. I especially admired the transom, with no outboard rudder to obstruct one's view of it.

Last I heard, the boat is still sailing out of the Basin(Brightwater), on the New Meadows. Sacagawea.

Best of luck,

Jack

[ 08-05-2002, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Art Read]

In case you weren't aware, "Woodenboat" sells the original plans, (Lapstrake) through their catalog. Plan #5. $75. It is also profiled in their "50 Wooden Boats" book and was featured in the "Design Review" section of the magazine in issue #42. Back issues are available through their "store" as well. Pretty boat!

[Norumbega Boatworks]

Again, thanks for the continued feedback, particularly appreciate details re: deck covering etc. Mine is completely painted, any comments on original paint/varnish scheme

[ishmael]

Well, paint and varnish schemes were likely simple. A white hull, a buff deck, and varnished mahogany trim would be my guess, as standard. It looks good and works well. The deck is light colored enough to not heat up excessively, and is non-reflective enough to be easy on the eye. Many variations(I painted my boat's deck a light, sky blue), to accomadate the foibles of the 'custom' buyer.

I think I'd opt for an approx. 5/16 inch 5 ply and dynel deck, if I had it to do over again. Just easier to maintain, and tougher, more rigid in racking stresses, etc. But...that canvas over pine deck looked pretty appropriate to the boat, so...

What needs to be done to the boat?

Best,

Jack

[Norumbega Boatworks]

A new factor becomes apparent. Where is the line drawn re: restoration levels - to original or to a solid boat, mostly original, but with some improved techniques/materials. I would like to realize a reasonable return after some use, at some point. If I use ply on the deck, for example, (as I have already considered, but thank you) am I forever compromizing its value, though it's a better boat. Thoughts anyone??

Will

[ishmael]

Will,

Difficult to predict. I wouldn't count on a return for your labor and materials on a spec project like this. Do it 'cause you want to, not for the return.

As far as 'original' vs. 'better', I think I'd opt for better, unless you just don't like it, for whatever reason. I think most potential buyers will be interested in function and good looks over and above whether its to original material specs. After all, we're not talking about a national monument here, it's a nice daysailer.

Dynel over ply can look really good. Anyone with an eye will see it's not canvas over pine, and most potential buyers either won't care or will like it, for the practical reasons listed above.

Best of luck,

Jack

[Norumbega Boatworks]

Points well taken Jack, Thank you all who commented, I'm on my way.

Will

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Norumbega Boatworks:
I've just acquired an Alden Indian Class sloop, ca, 1939. I haven't come up with too much detailed info yet, re: original finishes, hardware, rig etc. any and all major or minor comments/referrals to info sources etc. gratefully appreciated.When in doubt, go to the source:

John G. Alden
Naval Architects, Inc.
89 Commercial Wharf
Boston, MA 02110
Phone: 617-227-9480
Fax: 617-523-5465

http://www.aldendesigns.com/

I'm sure they can find the drawings for INDIAN somewhere in the archives -- they are offering a line of 'true classics' -- Alden-designed 6- and 8-metres, Q- R- and S-boats as well as one-designs and others drawn between 1912 and 1955.

They'll sell you the plans as originally designed or modified to suit modern technology.