Norseboat

[Doug Canada]

http://www.norseboat.com/index.htm

As I understand it (home) building plans are not available for this boat.

What is the next closest design that you can build to this boat?

Thanks,
Doug

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[J P]

Did you look into this? (quote from the Norseboat site)

"NorseBoat Ply/Epoxy Kit Version

NorseBoat Ltd. will be offering a ply/epoxy kit version of the NorseBoat 17.5. The first ply/epoxy boat will be commissioned by a prospective owner and built professionally."

[mmd]

Scott Dagley of Dagley's Boatworks (http://www.dagleysboats.com/) and I are collaborating on the prototype right now. We hope to unveil the first one at the Mahone Bay Classic Boat Festival in August.

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/data/500/medium/200521-03010_copy.jpg

[Steve Paskey]

Doug: I think John Welsford's WALKABOUT would compare quite favorably with the Norseboat, but I'm not the most objective observer -- I commissioned Walkabout.

See: www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm)

[ 03-14-2006, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Doug Canada]

JP, I sent Norseboat an email concerning their kit yesterday.
Seeing mmd post, it seems that it is still under development.
Articles on the Norseboat; http://www.norseboat.com/media.htm

Doug

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[Steve Paskey]

As a pure sailing craft, the Core Sound 17 from B&B Yacht Designs also has much to commend it. It's a faster boat, and the rig is said to be easy to handle. It's not a boat you'd want to row far, though.

In 2005, the Norseboat set a record for the Watertribe Everglades challenge, but it beat a team in a CS 17 ONLY because the Norseboat sailors had better local knowledge about the last leg, and pressed on at night while the CS 17 crew waited. This year, the CS 17 trimmed 9 hours off last year's Norseboat record.

[ 03-15-2006, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[OEX]

if you can get the CAD file there are places that will cut you a kit. I remember reading about one place in the UK (Classic Boat or Watercraft Mags.)

I have sailed the Norseboat. Kevin and I have talked of my being a distributor, on that ground he stopped by last year and we sailed near Westbrook CT. She is cool, no doubt. The day was windy and gusting 25 + knots. It was a handful, but went well enough. But being so gusty I did not really get to feel her in a groove, etc. I did help him make a few rigging changes on the gaff peak. We had to row her nose to the wind after taking in a bit of wind and having the gaff blown around the mast twisting the sail. This had been fixed I believe. The sail came down with no issue and the boat held plenty of water without going over. Rowing her is a two person job in a wind like that. At first Kevin was only rowing with the one set of oars we had. It was not enough and we made3 no heading against wind and a good tide head, so I bent to the same oars, pushing as he pulled the oars, and we had no issues after that. Very easy to rig and get in the water, easy to reef, comfortable (and I am just under 6'4" and 220lbs), nice not having a boom unless you want one (oar worked well). She was nice and dry.

Oh, tell Kevin I need my block back smile.gif

cheers, Bruce

[John Meachen]

I would imagine that if you had the CAD file,you would find that almost any business with a CNC router large enough to handle a full sheet of ply would be willing to cut the parts.If they also optimised the material utilisation by means of a nesting utility,the total cost may turn out to be less than the purchase of a few extra sheets which too much enthusiasm may cause in the rush to get afloat.

[mmd]

No offense intended, guys, but do you really think that the owner of a current design is going to let the CNC toolpath files out into the public domain? :rolleyes:

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Originally posted by Steve Paskey:
As a pure sailing craft, the Core Sound 17 from B&B Yacht Designs also has much to commend it. It's a faster boat, and the rig is said to be easy to handle. It's not a boat you'd want to row far, though.

.Why wouldn't you want to row it? With a second rowing seat on cleats just aft of the centerthwart, or removing the aft mast, And with long enough oars proerly tuned for use, The hull form is not going to be hard to drive through the water in and of itself. Although it does have nice wide afterplane sections for planing easily, the aft corners are certainly out of the water as well as almost all of the transom in rowing speeds.

The CS series give up so little to round hull boats in light airs and more than make up for it at higher windspeeds.

Graham has also commented that the Norseboat owner at the first everglades challenge commented on how much more upright the CS series was sailing on all points of sail and conditions.

Also a CS would be so MUCH EASIER and Quicker to build than the round hull Norseboat. The chines of the CS with it's extra bouyancy right where you need it when heeled add so much sail carrying ability...

[OEX]

no, I am sure the Norseboat plans will not be made available to you like that. I talked to Kevin about doing it in wood. I think the Apprenticeshop had plans on doing it in classic construction---might want to contact them. Kevin had planned on a ply version in kit form---talk to him, he is into the design and ideas---very nice guy.

There are plenty of similar boats that can be found (plans) for free or for very little---then get them cut.

cheers

[ 03-19-2006, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: OEX ]

[mmd]

The prototype boat is in frame now, and Scott is making up templates for the planking.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/mmd_ns/Dsc00005.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/mmd_ns/Dsc00002.jpg

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

I'd second the observation about how flat the CS sails compared to the Norseboat. Just recalling pics I have seen I recall the Norseboat heeled over in what (based upon the lack of chop in the pic) looked like pretty calm conditions.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Also of note is the contention that the Norseboat would be a better rower than the CS 17. While a cursory view of hullform might lead one to feel that way at first, the CS transom is fully out of the water when a single rower is present in the boat as the boat trims with the transom out.

Also it is prudent to note that the fiberglass Borseboat is 1200 lbs in stock trim while the CS marine ply boat weighs in at about 450 lbs. Now I grant that a glued lap Norseboat would weigh in closer to the CS, it still bears notice of what is being given up in terms of sailcarrying capacity to have that round hull that tucks up in the stern.

As a practical matter in the 2005 Everglades challenge, both boats loaded down with cruising provicsions, and with two crew memebers had the opportunity to do a run against each other under oar alone. Neither boat seemed to have an edge against each other under oars alone, although once the wind kicked up, both boats made sail. The CS pulled away form the Norseboat under sail alone while the Norseboat was laboring under both sail and oar in order to not give up too much ground.

[Mike V.]

Ray,

The Norseboat website lists the empty weight at 400 lbs., about the same as a Core sound 17. The 1100 lb. figure is the same boat carrying its' maximum load.

-Mike

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Ooops. I guess I must have missed that.

I thought 1200 lbs or thereabouts was awfullheavy even for fiberglass.

The fact that they got the weight down to 400 is pretty amazing. I wonder if it is due to carbon fiber usage, or if scantlings were compromised any as that is awfully light for glass.

Of course the molded lapstrakes may well account for low weight in glass as that provides a LOT of stiffness.

Regardless of weight though, Graham reports that the were pretty well matched when they were rowing against each other.

[charles de Bouillane]

Hi Oex,

From south of France, as an admirer of the NorseBoat, I'ld like to understand what you mean when telling: "...the boat held plenty of water without going over."
To limit the twisting of sail, what about a standing lug mainsail, such as in "Roxane" from Nigels Iren?
(I sent you a private message for explanation of how you rerigged her curved gaff lines to lower the twist of mainsail).

Best regards,
Charles.


if you can get the CAD file there are places that will cut you a kit. I remember reading about one place in the UK (Classic Boat or Watercraft Mags.)

I have sailed the Norseboat. Kevin and I have talked of my being a distributor, on that ground he stopped by last year and we sailed near Westbrook CT. She is cool, no doubt. The day was windy and gusting 25 + knots. It was a handful, but went well enough. But being so gusty I did not really get to feel her in a groove, etc. I did help him make a few rigging changes on the gaff peak. We had to row her nose to the wind after taking in a bit of wind and having the gaff blown around the mast twisting the sail. This had been fixed I believe. The sail came down with no issue and the boat held plenty of water without going over. Rowing her is a two person job in a wind like that. At first Kevin was only rowing with the one set of oars we had. It was not enough and we made3 no heading against wind and a good tide head, so I bent to the same oars, pushing as he pulled the oars, and we had no issues after that. Very easy to rig and get in the water, easy to reef, comfortable (and I am just under 6'4" and 220lbs), nice not having a boom unless you want one (oar worked well). She was nice and dry.

Oh, tell Kevin I need my block back smile.gif

cheers, Bruce

[OEX]

Charles........It was just a matter of changing the peak pulley block to allow more peaking. I think Kevin was working on a preventer of sorts to not allow the gaff to turn 180 degrees around the masthead. This can happen in small boats that can turn very fast.

She held water, meaning we took a bunch into the boat and her buoyancy and design seemed to be able to function well even with water inside the cockpit.

Please understand (everyone) that this was sailing in a good 20 knot wind in a very restricted area---marshes with rivers no wider than about 15- 45 meters (very hard to maneuver a fast boat in a small area in a high wind)---I feel it did very well indeed. If it comes out in wood, I will be looking at it closely, the arrangements are very well suited for RAID type sailing for two or three people. And four or five people can have a nice sail on a normal day. For RAIDS I would do a sliding seat arrangement.

Where are you in Southern France?
cheers

[charles de Bouillane]

OEX...I'm from Nîmes, some 40 km from Mediterranean Sea and 60 km west of Marseille, with canals (Canal du Midi from Sète port), Etang de Thau where to row-sail when strong North Wind (Tramontane)...
About minimizing curved gaff that goes too sideways and twist of sail, I heard Kevin fits two halyards (one at the throat and one 1/3 of gaff); perhaps some traveller (but always in the way!) or some shackle on the lee side could help for tensionning the luff?
Plenty of water: waouh!
In Europe now the NorseBoat is CE certified, in Design Category "D" (for simpler way to get CE approval), meaning she is designed to be sailed up to 6 nm from shelter (beach could be one) within these conditions: wind up to F.4 and waves up to 0.5meter (first CE Maritime Authorities said that "D" was for waves up to 0.3meter!...). I'm afraid that insurance companies will verify these "D" conditions...
Category "C": up to F.6 and 2 meters waves. (big gap between C and D!).
Its also the height above water-level of the non-watertight hole (for line to make up the pivoting centreboard) on top of centreboard-housing that decides "D".
Do you think she can handle in capable hands some stronger conditions, choppy waters ?

Charles

[mmd]

Charles, in Kevin's latest newsletter he mentions that a NorseBoat has been delivered to southern France. Possibly he would tell you where so that you could speak directly to the owner and see the boat in person.

[charles de Bouillane]

mmd...thank you for telling about NorseBoat News.
no longer silence: I'm one of the happy future owners of the NorseBoat in Europe!
I sailed before: Dory, Drascombe, Nantucket Clipper (yawl from Alan Buchanan), now downsizing.
I was close to order a similar boat to "Canotage de France" (they build the Seil), but they closed some months ago.
I am interested in knowing how the NorseBoat sail through choppy waters and some good wind, from people who test sail her.
Happy to know the NorseBoat could be available as a kit for plywood construction; in France, it could interest someone.

[OEX]

Le Seil is closed :-(

I think I help Kevin change the gaff traveler (peak) to travel further and more easier---nothing big, I am just a bit more of a gaff sailor than he is. I grew up sailing Drascomb luggers, etc. The Norseboat is much more dingy sailing like, much faster and much easier to row. I would not go out in 2 m waves if they are close together and breaking. But that's just me. People have sailor around the world in a drascomb lugger---I would not do that either. I think it is all in who is at the helm and how fast you reef and did you reef easily enough. I had though that the boat could use a way of putting in water ballast for wind increases, etc and get the ballast out for rowing. I would make a dedicated boom so that if things go wrong you do not have to worry about unhooking the boom/oar to row.

What happened to Le Seil---love their pram type boat---great ideas I am stealing in modifying an old boat I have (thread---http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=5126&highlight=raid)

Cheers, Bruce

p.s. I spend time in Port Grimuad and Languedoc (I am a wine nutter too and a friend was buying a vineyard there---fun shopping !)

[charles de Bouillane]

Canotage de France (they built the "Seil") closed after Paris Boat Show, where they had some new nice trailerable solid-wooden boats; perhaps such wooden boats were not there in the best place neither moment for selling.
Yes, there are some good local wines in Languedoc! (not expensive)

Charles.