help, my bottom is too skinny!

[bart]

I made my first major error on Gardner's Modified Swampscott dory that I'm building. I cut the bottom 1/2 inch too narrow on each side on the station D position about 1 foot from the transom. It looks fine but I anticipate problems but am not experienced enough to know what to do about it. Can I glue and fasten a strip on each side? Can I forget about it as not being enough to worry about? Can I start all over again God forbid?
I also have a question about glue. Resorcinal glue is mentioned a lot by Gardner. Anything better? Name and manufactorer please. What about Gorilla Glue? It's expensive but strong and supposedly waterproof.

[Ron Williamson]

I can't really help you with the boo boo,but gorilla glue is a giant pain in the ass.It is very messy,foaming out of joints and the bottle (clogging the end),sticking to everything and almost impossible to clean from your skin.
I tossed the last half of my first and last bottle.
If you've ever used spray foam insulation it's essentially the same stuff.
I like epoxy.
R

[John Bell]

What material are you building in?

If you are using plywood, edge-gluing on a strip to fill out your mistake is probably not going to work.

If you are using solid lumber, I'd suggest using epoxy over gorilla glue.

[NormMessinger]

Since I can't answer the question about the missing half inch I should stay out of the discussion and not turn the thread into a rant about gorilla glue but I gotta say Ron, you are wrong about the stuff. It is not almost impossible to get off your skin. GG cures by moisture as you know. Skin is somewhat moist. GG is absolutly impossible to get off your skin once it has cured and according to the chemist (where is that masked writer anyway?) dangerous to your health. However, it is handy, probably not so expensive given it only takes a little and the foam is only on the outside of a tight joint which makes squeeze out easy to clean up. Humidity that gets in the bottle shortens shelf life a lot which dirves up the cost a lot as Ron says. I keep a small bottle handy but generally if yellow glue wont serve, epoxy will.

Now, can you make the next plank a bit wider to compensate for the narrow first plank? Will the boyancy represented by the lost half inch be significant? Somebody here will know, I hope.

But, as my ole pappy used to say if you cut it too short you can splice it. If you cut it too long there's nothing you can do about it.

[reddog]

bart;
As already stated you shouldn't have a problem gluing a strip on either side if you are using solid wood.I would go with the epoxy,which Mr. Gardner also recommended in some books.
I'm not sure if you are using plywood ,but I would be inclined to cut another piece.
Earl

[Jack Heinlen]

It's a little difficult to say without looking at it, but if the line is fair I don't think 1/2 inch overall will make much difference. These boats weren't originally built to modern standards of precision. You're past all the framing at the point you describe. I'm assuming it all looks fair into the base of the transom. Leave it. It will create a minorly more amount of twist in the garboard, but there isn't much to begin with.

[ 12-26-2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

And here I thought the title of this post referred to a diet problem. :D

[Jack Heinlen]

Yeah, my bottom is too skinny these days also.

Seriously, and not a hijack, but I need some suspenders. My belt hasn't enough purchase these days. smile.gif

[bart]

To clarify: I've glued up solid Douglas Fir and the bottom is 1 inch thick. I'm worried that when it's finished it will look unfair aft even though the bottom looks fair now.
Also: when you talk about epoxy is there only one kind? I would like to get the name of the best, most widely available brand of epoxy.

[Gary E]

First thing..ya dont tell anyone you made an error, what ya did was make a modification for an improvement to a design so it better fits your use...

You should be fine...

G

[Jack Heinlen]

I'm worried that when it's finished it will look unfair aft even though the bottom looks fair now. If the line of the bottom is fair, the plank at that point will be fair. QED. How could it be otherwise?

If you were talking a half inch each side...well I'd start wondering if ya got your lofting/set up correct. A quarter...it's not ideal but within tolerance for this sort of boat, so long as it's not extreme.

Will the planks lay fair? Reasonably fair?

It's only a boat for Christ's sake. Pay as much attention to the plank lands as to this and it will turn out fine. smile.gif

Eye, eye, eye. If it lays fair, plank it. smile.gif

[DougC]

Bart, nice choice -- I built this boat too. It should be ok, just make sure to fair your "new improved lines" so the narrowed dimension makes a smooth transition (check it with a batten). It will make for more of a twist in the garboard, but, if I remember correctly, the transom end twist is not too severe to begin with. How are you planking? Glued ply or solid wood with rivets? Use epoxy. When you're ready to start planking I suggest making a pattern out of some cheap luan or masonite for the garboard strake, especially if it's your first time spiling. Gardner's lines are very good, and the plank dimensions he gives are useful as a very general guide for laying out and scarphing planking stock. Doug

[ 12-26-2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: DougC ]

[Meerkat]

The most widely available brands of Epoxy in the US are West and System 3. Supposedly they, and the various "no-name" brands, all come from the came chemical plant(s) and differ only in formulation. You'll find lower prices at http://www.raka.com/ and possibly an actually better product.

John Welsford has done some informal testing of Gorilla Glue and says it's not as waterproof as they would like one to believe. There's a difference between water falling on a glue line and a glue line subjected to water pressure, as it would be under water.

[bart]

Thanks Doug for the information especiallly the tip on the garboard. I've some trepidation about the planking as I imagine anyone would.
I'm using solid Red Cedar plank. I found the logs in the Snoqualmie River and had them cut. They are 3/4 inch now but when they dry and get planed will be around 9/16. Too thick? I'm planning on scarfing every plank but I have some 16 inch wide material so there's plenty to choose from.
Glad you mentioned rivets because this is something I've had trouble finding or at least the type with roves.
I appreciate the quick response Meerkat on the epoxy question. I'll run down and check out the supply situation today.
I like the idea of using native materials so I am using Doug Fir for the frames that I've found in naturally bent old wood. Splitting as the wood dries is the big problem so far but I've let the split run and then glued it. I'm leaving the frames at 1 1/4 inch thick instead of the 7/8 Mr. Gardner recommends for oak. Any opinions on this approach?
Again, thank you for your feedback.

[Meerkat]

Bart; I just noticed you're in Seattle - don't buy any epoxy from West Marine - max $$$. A better bet may be Fisheries Supply on the north side of Lake Union.

[Keith Wilson]

About glue: If you're just using it for gluing, I'd heartily recommend System 3's T-88 (http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp). It's a 1:1 glue that's been around almost forever, and was originally developed for wooden aircraft. It's of no use whatever for fiberglassing. It comes already thick; no fillers, no spreading unthickened stuff then mixing in thickener, none of that. Just stir it up, glop it on, and clamp. Good stuff, in my experience.

And IMHO, 1/2" won't make any measurable difference in the way the boat works. If it looks OK and everything fits together, don't worry about it.