Performance Daysailers

[Sakari Aaltonen]

I would like to build a medium-sized (14-16')
daysailer of the 'performance' type, that is,
speed is more important than carrying capacity
or traditional appearance, say. So far, I have
only seen two designs of this type - AR15 from
www.boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=AR15 (http://www.boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=AR15)
and K-16 from
www.nwmarinedesign.com/k16.htm (http://www.nwmarinedesign.com/k16.htm) .
Would anyone know of more?

Tha AR15 is _much_ lighter than the K-16 (160lbs
vs. 230), which is good. On the other hand, the
K-16 is cold-molded or strip-planked, which would
be more interesting than stitch-and-glue (AR15.)

[ 09-19-2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Sakari Aaltonen ]

[Ben Fuller]

If you don't need a trap and the boat is for two, it would be hard to go wrong with a Windmill.

[Ged]

Check out Paul Gartside's design #128. 350 lbs., 150 sq. ft. of sail area, glued lap ply construction.

[ishmael]

Second 'Windmill'. They have a very strong class association, with many boats. This is a real advantage if you want to race, and also when you go to sell the boat. It's not a 'performance' machine compared to some more modern designs, but is a blast to sail, nonetheless.

Good luck.

[Stephen Hutchins]

I'll second Ged's suggestion. Pauls number 128 is the most appealing to me as far as performace daysailors go.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Oh, here's another: Bill Howarth's Thomas Bay 16 here in Bar Harbor. 16'x6'4" 450 lb 111 sq ft. I think his website is www.dauntlessenterprises.com (http://www.dauntlessenterprises.com)
I went to look at the prototype. Very nice looking and he's building a 19 ft version this winter.

[rbgarr]

Can you give us more information, if possible?

Would you be keeping the boat on a trailer, or in the water (most of the time)?

Sailing by yourself or with another or others?

Are the waters you'd be sailing in choppy enough so you'd need fore and side decks, and positive flotation, or would it be pretty calm and protected?

Windy or not so windy?

Do you want to be sitting on seats inside the boat, or is sitting on the bottom or gunwale okay?

Is there a particular sailing rig you favor?

Thanks-

[ 09-19-2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[Keith Wilson]

Well, if you want real speed, monohulls are out. WB sells plans for two Woods catamarans; the 16' one might be a good choice - 16' x 8' x 10" with 205 sq ft of sail. Both will run rings around almost any monohull in that size range, and will be much more relaxing to sail than a planing dinghy.

This one is a little bigger than you mentioned, but I've always been very fond of Dick Newick's Tremolino (http://www.geocities.com/tremsetters/). They can be built in sheet ply or strip-planked (somewhat more complicated hull shapes).

http://www.nemasail.org/images/nikita.jpg

[ 09-19-2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[ishmael]

There ya go, a catamaran!

Good and bad things about all designs. The questions rbgarr asked are good ones. I've only sailed a catamaran a few times and it's a different experience than sitting in a monohull. Both have their points. When I was a kid I wanted a cat called a 'Paper Tiger' more than I can tell. We got a dumpy monohull instead, sigh

Say some more about intended use, and if you hope to race do think about class association. With a boat that is a member of a large class, sailing can be a more social thing. With a large class you would have the option of doing it for fun, and meeting a lot of interesting folks, or getting serious about racing, winning the nationals. ;)

If all you want is to go fast it's a different question. How about a 'Fireball' for monohull go fast?

[ 09-19-2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[mike from Boston]

Check out Snipes, they are an old design and lots of fun. www.snipe.org (http://www.snipe.org)

[Keith Wilson]

Here's a couple more - Here's a link to Woods Designs (http://www.sailingcatamarans.com). They have mostly multihulls, as well as a couple of seriously high-performance dinghies in the Australian style
Kurt Hughes (http://www.multihulldesigns.com/stock/daysailer.html) has quite a few in that size range; the 20' trimaran looks like a it would be a blast to sail.

http://www.multihulldesigns.com/images/20tri.jpg

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Thank you for the suggestions.

Yes, Paul Gartside's #128 looks nice (well, all his boats do), but is rather heavy at 350lbs. The boat would be kept on a lake shore; that is, I would push and pull it a lot, so weight matters.

I'm not at all interested in racing. I would like a boat that there are not thousands of all over the world.

As to multhulls, I only started saiiling last year. I think I have lots to learn about monohulls...

[ 09-19-2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Sakari Aaltonen ]

[Garrett Lowell]

Uffa Fox is the only name you need.

[ishmael]

Yeah! Uffa Fox. If you want to build a lapstrake dinghy that is a blast, Uffa Fox.

[shadow99]

You need something like a skiff, maybe something with 150sqft of sail, or so. Check out this:

http://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/005/12/88/8D/C2/BbzNNdPeyqlRkZDULGfnNLmWy0fPdbbB0060.jpg

She's a Swifty 12, modified. She'll get on plane in 15kts of wind,weighs in at 135lbs, and can be built quickly.

Rick

[Ged]

If a 13 ft. boat isn't too short, maybe Mr. Gartside's design #90 could fit the bill. 200 lbs., 98 sq. ft. of sail area (gunter sloop), and S&G construction.

It doesn't look to me as if all of the spars will fit inside the boat, but the mast doesn't look much longer than the boat, either. Should you ever want to trailer this boat, transportation of both this boat and #128 looks like it would be a snap due to the construction techniques involved and the spar lengths.

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Uffa Fox? I would prefer a living designer. In any case, I would
expect current designs to incorporate Fox's ideas.

[ishmael]

Uffa Fox? I would prefer a living designer. In any case, I would
expect current designs to incorporate Fox's ideas. Perhaps, but not his eye. A round bilged planing dinghy is a fairly standard formula, but who can mistake say a Thistle?

A Fox lapstrake dinghy, originally designed for solid lumber but easily adaptable to glued lap ply, would be a fascinating project, though perhaps more than you are bargaining for.

[Bruce Taylor]

Jack, I think Thistle was designed by Sandy Douglas (a Fox disciple, I believe...an Uffite).

[ishmael]

I knew it was ambiguous when I posted, but I left it anyway. I didn't mean to imply that Fox designed 'Thistle'. Rather that 'Thistle' is distinctive, and beautiful. I trip over words every day. smile.gif

I didn't know that Mr. Douglas was a disciple of Mr. Fox, say some more. Did you mean in spirit?

But, anyway, if you aren't looking to build something radical, as was on the recent WB cover, or an International 14 or sumpthin' like, Uffa Fox's planing dinghys would be difficult to beat.

[ 09-20-2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Bruce Taylor]

I seem to remember that Douglass (real name "Gordon") worked under Fox...I don't know any more, but I'm sure someone else does. Certainly Thistle is a pretty Foxy boat.

Albacore is nice, too.

[ishmael]

Albacore is a really fine boat, that I think would fit the parameters. Is it by Fox? The one I sailed was glass, from England, a Proctor spar etc. A really fun boat, fast off the wind; gawd that boat screamed on a beam reach, even with three adults aboard. Fine.

I think that, or a close cousin, is what you want to build, Sakari.

[Sakari Aaltonen]

The Albacore may be a nice boat, but are plans available?

I was looking at Iain Oughtred's catalogue, and found that he describes his Gannet (14'5"/5'8" - good size) as a sort of performance boat - influenced by racing dinghies. Hmm.... Would a Gannet builder/owner comment?

[ishmael]

It would be interesting to look at drawings. I don't know who controls Fox's plans.

It depends, very much, how involved you want to get. As I said above, building one of Uffa Fox's planing dinghys in glued lap ply would be a bit of an exercise; the end product well worth it. Ah hell, what am I saying, it would be a hoot!

I think so, within your parameters, but be forwarned it is a complex project. And I'm sure Oughtred or someone has a clone that would be much easier.

[ 09-20-2003, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Sakari Aaltonen:
...I was looking at Iain Oughtred's catalogue, and found that he describes his Gannet (14'5"/5'8" - good size) as a sort of performance boat - influenced by racing dinghies. Hmm.... Would a Gannet builder/owner comment?This is Gannet in the flesh, "sort of performance boat" I think is an apt description. Not a bad boat, more traditional. Certainly not in the same league with the other boats mentioned above.

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/images/ptarmigan.jpg

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Venchka,
the boat in the photo is not the Gannet, but the smaller Shearwater (11'10"), a.k.a. Ptarmigan..

ishmael,
rights to Uffa Fox's plans are owned by Tony Dixon, his nephew and draughtsman. At least, that's what the website www.uffafox.com (http://www.uffafox.com) says.

[ 09-21-2003, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: Sakari Aaltonen ]

[Dennis Marshall]

Sakari,

As I recall, someone here on the forum is building the larger sister to Gannet -- the Fulmar. You might want to do a search on this topic and see what you can find.

Dennis

[Keith Wilson]

As to multhulls, I only started sailing last year. I think I have lots to learn about monohulls...
FWIW, I'd say you should at least consider a multihull boat if you're interested in speed. This is not just because they're faster, although they are, but because a relatively fast multihull is a much easier and more relaxing thing to sail than a high-performance planing skiff. Fast light monohulls with lots of sail area are twitchy things, requiring acrobatics and concentration to keep them upright - consider the amazing Swift Solo that was just on the cover of WB. With a multihull, particularly a trimaran, you can get a lot more speed without being anywhere near the edge. I think it would be much more suitable for someone who's not very experienced, and if you get wet it will be by spray rather than swimming.

[Chris Krumm]

I second all Keith's points.

From the sound of it, you're going to keep this boat along lakefront. A cat or tri around 16' may be a little heavier than the mono (maybe 50#), but it will certainly beach well. It'll sail flatter, if not overcanvased.

Would add 1/2 hour or so to assembly & rigging if you trailer it, depending on the connectives design.

A design such as the Woods Quattro 16 with low aspect fixed keels ought to be very fast and eliminate the complexity of building 2 centerboards and fiddling with them while you sail. The amount of string on the rigs is no more than any comparable mono. Kurt Hughes' 16' tri is a nice boat if you want a sit-in cockpit, albeit a more complex boat.

Both use variations of tortured ply construction - very fast, if not "stressful" way to turn out shapely hulls. Having built both strip planked and tortured ply boats, I think you could put together a couple of tortured cat hulls in the same time as one strip-planked or multi-chined mono dinghy.

[Ged]

The Sonatina (http://www.sea-k-designs.com/sonatina/sonatina.htm) is another interesting design that I think is worth looking at.

[ishmael]

Build one of the stitch and glue cats in the WB catalogue. Don't forget to invite me for a sail. smile.gif

[ 09-21-2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Yes, I understand that multihulls are faster. However, when I said I was interested in performance, that is, speed, I really meant the _impression_ of speed. In other words, if a boat feels fast, it _is_ fast.

So, absolute speed is not that important. Also, aren't small multihulls rather wet?

[ishmael]

Sakari,

A fifteen foot planing dinghy, in a breeze, is the most fun you're gonna have with your clothes on. A cat is gonna be different. I don't have enough experience with cats to comment intelligently, but they don't have the sense of speed a planing hull gives as it accelerates out of hull speed and skitters across the water. But, as mentioned above, keeping a dinghy on its feet is work at times, real work that these 47 year old abdominals are chary of. To sail a fast dinghy well takes endurance. And you sit on cats, rather than in them. And they are faster.

There is no right answer. I'd suggest, from what you've said, you sail some more boats, of various types, before you decide.

Jack

[ 09-21-2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[TimH]

if speed is your game, have you ever considered sailboarding? It really puts you at one with the wind and water. And I have definately gone fast enough on a short board to scare myself :D
The record is like 50 something mph :D

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Sakari Aaltonen:
Venchka,
the boat in the photo is not the Gannet, but the smaller Shearwater (11'10"), a.k.a. Ptarmigan..
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

The photo posted above appeared in WoodenBoat Magazine #155 "Launchings". The boat's name is SLAINTE.

From Launchings, #155:
"Working part-time for a couple of years, Drew Langsner and John Skemp built this 14'-5" daysailer to Iain Oughtred's Gannet design."

[Ben Fuller]

OK folks, lets focus.

We are looking for a monohull, somewhat different than popular classes. What we don't know is if we are looking for a single or double hander.

Foxes designs are influential but now dated.

The fastest non trap double handers that are not widespread are the Merlin Rockets: these are designed for one off construction and lots have been done d.i.y. They are a developement class, loose parameters.

For single handers things are a bit harder. The O.K. Dinghy was designed for home building, and not many are around. Lots of people have built international canoes at home, both composite and wood strip. And then there is the new strip skiff that is in WB. To ratchet up the skill level there is the Moth.

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Venchka,
your photo is entitled 'ptarmigan.jpg', so I did a web search for Ptarmigan and Oughtred, which turned up boats that were all less than 12'. On the other hand, the boat in my Oughtred catalogue that is less than 12' and looks like the boat in the photo is called Shearwater (there is no Ptarmigan in the catalogue.)

Ben,
sometimes, I would sail my boat single-handed; sometimes, double-handed. But I have no idea of the 'classes' that you mention. They are racing classes? But I have no interest in racing.

[Sakari Aaltonen]

The photo posted by Venchka, above, also turns up at http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/dfwbphp/pictureDISPLAY.php?ID=143

It's clearly labeled GANNET. The text says, further, that "in the right hands Gannett should plane even to windward." So - the Gannet, too, is a performance boat? Unfortunately, Gannet builders seem to be a quiet lot. No websites...

[rbgarr]

A sailboat for one and occasionally two people, beach kept, on the lighter weight, speedier side, interesting to build, i.e., not stitch and glue (or a kit?)

I second Ben's suggestion about the Merlin Rocket as far as performance and an interesting boat to build goes. Here's KATE, the first of the class in her currently restored state. http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/images/Kateweb5.jpg They may not be so easy to single hand, but you can always sail under mainsail alone. The OK Dinghy is less appropriate for two since it has a lower boom and more cramped cockpit. She was designed as a trainer for the single-handed Olympic Finn class if I'm not mistaken. A picture of a wooden one: http://www.okdia.de/pics/ger666_2.jpg

I was going to suggest the Ian Proctor designs like Enterprise or Wayfarer (see quote below from the wayfarer.org site) and point you toward Bob Goeckel, a forum member, who's restored a wood one. See http://www.uswayfarer.org/Tech_Cruis_Articles/2-19-2002.jpg

"When Englishman Ian Proctor initially set about drafting the lines of the Wayfarer in 1957, his objectives were threefold. First, he wanted a boat that performed well enough to be suitable for competitive class racing. Secondly, the boat needed to be roomy and stable to make it an attractive family boat. Lastly, it was to be endowed with features such as large stowage compartments and other cockpit amenities, which would enhance its utility as a camping/cruising boat. All of this was with the view that the dinghy would be sailed for the most part in the rough, turbulent, coastal waters of the British Isles. Ian Proctor succeeded with remarkable genius in achieving all three of hisgoals.

A Capable Boat that Behaves Well Under a Variety of Conditions. With a 6-foot beam and generous freeboard the Wayfarer feels and acts much larger than a typical 16-foot present day sailboat. When it comes to performance it is lively and will come up on a fast plane when conditions are right. The combination of the forward and aft watertight compartments provides positive buoyancy as well as loads of stowage space--enough to hold clothing, camping gear and food for a two to three week cruise. The two aft side seat benches are easily lifted out (by undoing a couple of wing nuts) and can be placed cross-ways upon the forward seats. This makes a roomy aft cockpit for sleeping (on the floor) and more space for preparing meals on board if anchored away from shore, or in the event of rainy weather. In this configuration the aft seats become a temporary shelf for getting bulky items out of the way. On day excursions the Wayfarer will hold four adults safely and comfortably. For long distance cruising it is a superb boat for the single handed sailor, as well as for two people. As always, whether day sailing or cruising, the helmsman and crew need to possess the skills and experience necessary for the degree of difficulty that may be encountered. Gain experience and skill gradually through progressively more difficult steps."

The design is somewhat dated and they are plywood multi-chine boats. Also, they can only, as far as the US website indicates, be home-built from kits available through (in the US) a Cleveland, Ohio supplier (where are you located by the way?). The plans are strictly controlled.

That's not such a bad thing when you come to sell the boat as your market is larger with those who might want to race it.

[ 09-22-2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[Sakari Aaltonen]

I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I just can't like the looks of many of the 'class' boats that have been mentioned. Also, plans often do not seem to be available.

I'm leaning towards Iain Oughtred's Gannet.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Sakari Aaltonen:
. . . Also, plans often do not seem to be available.
. . . I think you will find that plans are available for all the one-design "class" boats mentioned, with the exception of the Thistle. (Wooden Thistles were hot molded, which is beyond the ability of the home builder to reasonably undertake.)

Comet is a one-design sloop of classic proportions, 16', centerboard, no trapeze, no spinnaker, arc- (not flat) bottomed, hard chine, 260 pounds, 140 sq. ft. SA. Plans are available for $55.00. http://www.cometclass.com/

Wayne

[Venchka]

Yikes!

"The copyright holders license a number of builders to construct Wayfarers and to provide part-built boats as kits. Wayfarers can not be built by amateurs from plans. The copyright holder's representative is K. Proctor, Seymour Terrace, Bridgetown, Totnes, Devon TQ9 5AQ, UK."

OK, buy a used Wayfarer and rehabilitate it.

I'm going to throw out a design which doesn't meet the classical "performance planing dinghy" daysailer definition, a.k.a. Int. 505, Int. 14, Laser, etc. However, I'll wager it has plenty GO FAST! for the buck and more "get you home safely no matter what" per foot than most 15' boats around.

John Welsford's NAVIGATOR. It's a bit heavy for hand launching but I expect that one of those 3-wheel beach trolley things you see in the U.K. could make the job easy enough. It carries as much sail as your wallet can stand. Or, when it's blowing stink and the hot shot racer boys are out breaking gear or huddled on the beach moaning about too much wind, NAVIGATOR can sail blissfully along on jib and mizzen. Like the WAYFARER, folks have taken the NAVIGATOR places you can't even imaigine. When it's time to venture farther than your local lake, put the NAVIGATOR on a trailer and the "sky's the limit". Or the end of the road I suppose.

The feeling of speed, eh?

http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatDdriagg/fullsteam.jpg

http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatWaiata/Waiatags.jpg

NAVIGATOR IN FIJI (http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Stories/BoatFiji/DinghyYasawa.htm)

NAVIGATOR (http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/1WBNZOffice/Navigatorbasics/navigatorindex.html)

There are enough sailing to prove the design capable, the owners aren't hiding and the designer is very approachable via e-mail.

[rbgarr]

Good luck with the GANNET. She looks like a nice wholesome boat with a reasonable amount of speed.

[ishmael]

It's an interesting question. But with the Welsford design you really have changed the parameters. That's okay. Looking back at your original post you haven't a clue what you want, and that's what you need to define. Go sail some different boats, it will give you a better sense of what they do. Any boat is gonna be fairly narrow in its capacities.

If I wanted a fairly quick build, that had good speed and ability in semi-open waters, reasonably fast, planing off the wind, and nice looking for its type, I'd look at the Core Sound boats. A google will find them, as will a search here.

But you need to clarify what you want. Don't worry, you can always build another boat. ;)

[Sakari Aaltonen]

The Navigator... I did have John Welsford's Rogue on my first list, but dropped it when I realized how narrow (4'5") it is. My crew/wife doesn't like narrow boats. On the other hand, all Navigator photos I have seen show it as a yawl, that is, with two masts and three sails, which would, I think, be a bit much for simple daysailing.

However, looking at the Navigator more closely, the original design seems, in fact, to be a sloop - the mizzen is a later addition. Also, the beam
(5'10") is quite enough (very close to the Gannet's).

So - thank you, I'll certainly think about the Navigator. Yes, it's convenient when the designer does email.

[Venchka]

I really share your concerns for the comfort of wife/crew. My wife crew doesn't like boats that heel. Her heel tolerance is + or - about 1/2 a degree. Her ideal boat is one of those pontoon party barge things. Speed held to less than 5mph.

The yawl rig has numerous advantages, most of which provide safety and comfort when you need it most. Read what John Welsford has to say here:
Navigator (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/navigator/index.htm)

Where exactly do you intend to sail the boat you select? Small lake with light winds? Large inland lake? Deep lake? Shallow lake? Coastal areas? What is the shore like that you will have to launch/recover the boat by hand?

[Sakari Aaltonen]

My wife does not dislike heeling so much as she does _sudden_ heeling. Of the boats we have sailed so far, the narrowest has the most sudden movements.

The yawl may be a great rig. But I'm just learning to handle two sails (main and jib).

The boat will be kept on a lake shore that is...Rocky. Now that I think of it, I'll have to build some sort of dock. The boat now at the lake only weighs 90lbs and _can_ be manhandled on and off the rocks without major damage; the boats that have been discussed here are just too heavy for that.

[Venchka]

As good a boat as it is, Navigator sounds like too much boat for the rocky launch area. Don't worry about the yawl rig being too much to handle. The boat sails under main alone, jib + mizzen or jib + main + mizzen. Your next boat perhaps? On a tralier. For holidays in other locations. Wayfarer would be too much also.

The rocky lakeshore is a problem for sure. A nice problem, by the way. We all wished we could sail away from our own piece of shoreline. Any shoreline. :D

[Beowolf]

You also might want to check out the "Thumb" dingy by Van De Stadt. 15 ft, under 200 lbs. Looks like you can rig it as simple or as go fast as you like. Sorry, I don't have the website handy,m but a brief search will turn up some sites.

Jeff

[kpenokie]

Well if your talking speed how about the Swift Solo from WB 173?

[Nicholas Carey]

Hmmm...International 110?

http://www.110class.com/images/photo1b.jpg

http://www.110class.com/images/links1.jpg

4 24 ft, 910 lb, double-ended, fin keeler. Designed by Ray Hunt in 1938.

Not quite a rocket like some of the dinghies, but still quite a sled.

http://www.110class.com/theboat.htm

[johnw]

Check out Lively, 16', by Uffa Fox. Much like a Thistle but a little smaller, and much faster than most of the boats so far mentioned. WoodenBoat sells the plans.

Look here for pix:

http://www.uffafox.com/uffanews.htm

[ 09-25-2003, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: johnw ]

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Thanks, but I'm ruling out dead designers. (Ermmm... That sounds _heartless_...)

A suggestion was made off this forum - SEIL:

http://www.francois.vivier.info/html/voileavironsgrands.html

Apparently, very fast and very easy to sail. But at 5.40m (18'), it's also very big.

[johnw]

Just curious, why are you ruling out dead designers? Most of the best people are dead, you know.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by johnw:
Just curious, why are you ruling out dead designers? Most of the best people are dead, you know.Garcia, Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Harrison, Valens, Big Bopper, Nelson, Cash, Peck, Wayne, Hepburn, Bogart, Kubrick...

somebody stop me

[Steve Clark]

May seem fatuous, but there are lots of nice dnghy shapes that aren't too hard to build. Key to getting the "performance" will be to build it nice and light. Spend time and effort on the details (centerboard, rudder, mast and sails.) Do this right, and many things become wonderful, miss and build it 50 lbs too heavy and hate yourself for the duration. I built a Chapelle Norfork Flattie once. Made it really light ( 130 lbs) with a real NACA 0009 daggerboard and decent little sloop rig. Boat planed around beautifully. Was none to robust and because it was built out of destructo brand Luan, didn't last that long, but was a fun boat. Saved me the trouble of trying to sell it on by becomming kindling for the shop while I built the next one. If you aren't troubled by class rules, its easy to hop up a fairly pedestrian design and have a really nice boat!
Same goes for any number of traditional hull shapes. The 85 lb Duckers were pretty brilliant in their way.
SHC

[johnw]

Good point. Say, Clark Mills is still alive, so a Windmill is a contender here. It's a great boat and a lot of fun to sail. They make glass ones now, but there are still people building wood ones and there is a 'builder's corner' on the class website, so if you run into trouble you can get help.

Here's the website:
http://www.windmillclass.org/