New John Welsford Design - first peek

[Barrett Faneuf]

Oh frubjous day! The first sketch of the new design John's drawing for me arrived today. Needless to say, I am very happy.

Here's a peek; the pic is a photo of a scan of a pencil drawing, so cut John and I some slack smile.gif . This is a small image, go to the new album at http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290141855 and check it out full size (left click all the way on the photo, then do the "look at full size" thing.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p12336c01387955668a7469ed49a75e82/fc22e1e2.jpg

Vital stats:
26 feet LOA discounting rudder and extending spars
Beam ~8 feet
Lap ply construction on stringers
2 tons dry on trailer
Static draft 2 feet 3 in
Standing headroom 6feet 6 ins (!)
Heads opposite galley amidships
Berths 4
Yawl rig
Self-bailing cockpit
Aux power via outboard in well or saildrive

Some of my design requirements that led to this design:
Easily trailerable (spec'd to my truck); setting up spars must be doable with 1 though easier with 2
Very comfortable for 2 for vacationing/cruising
Standing headroom in main cabin
Separate head
"Salty" quotient must be very high - i dislike modern-looking and hard chine designs. Ugly cabin a no-no.
Lapstrake ply construction preferred.

We'll do a bit of tweaking most likely, but I am delighted with what John has drawn so far. I look forward to sharing construction shots of hull #1. I also hope the design has enough appeal to someday sail with a sister ship.

-Barrett

[Ged]

I'd be happy, too. I envy you and your new boat-to-be. Is there anything about it that you would like to see tweaked, or has Mr. Welsford pretty much hit the nail on the head?

Oh, and thanks for showing her off for us! :cool:

[ 05-17-2003, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Ged ]

[Bruce Taylor]

Wow! Thanks for posting, Barrett. It's an exciting design.

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

Hi Barrett - looks exciting - I should have my copy any day now! I think there is a strong possibility that there might be a sistership in the same waters from time to time. Can an Oceangoddess also be an honorary member of the Power Chicks?

[JimD]

Nice, Barrett. Definitely high on the salty scale. Is that an outboard motor in a well under the cockpit?

[Barrett Faneuf]

Thanks all,

Ged;
As far as tweaks go, there isn't a darn thing I dislike. John really hit the nail on the head, as you say. Mostly addressing questions. Like, I was curious about a ring frame under the main mast, as it is located directly over the double berth forward, and I don't relish a compression post (no compresion post is spec'd at this time, it's just a concern).

I am also curious how one reefs a sprit mizzen, or if one does. John's drawn a powerful rig, with (I believe) a good philosophy, that of "have enough canvas for light weather, and reef early". I am not too familiar with sailing yawl rigs (this will be an extensive learning experience), and one of the things that seemed to balance the extra sticks and strings of Eun Mara's double gaff rig is that both 4-cornered sails are reefable.

Ex-Ocean;
I will definitely continue to keep in touch with you; it'd be pretty wonderful to be able to cruise with friends. What a lovely idea. We'll probably be sending all sorts of pictures back and forth.

Oh, and as to "Power Chicks", my "title" was bestowed upon me by a bunch of women friends a few years ago when I had taught them all that power tools are not exclusive properties of the testosterone-afflicted. I taught safe tool use, up to and including table saws, etc. We built a bunch of useful furniture for the Renaissance Faire, where we all worked summer weekends. They were so happy to be Power Chicks. So as to "honorary membership", it's hardly a club, more of a badge of pride. I'd say you already are a Power Chick of you want to be; you're the one with professional woodworking experience. Heck, you probably outrank me smile.gif .

JimD;
Yes, that CAN be an outboard motor in a well, it can also be a permanently mounted saildrive. Right now if I can afford it I'm leaning to the saildrive, for its combination of water-cooled diesel reliability and feathering prop outboard drive philosophy, eliminating long drive shafts, alignment issues, etc. The diesel saildrive we spec'd only weighs 100 lbs or so and delivers 9.5 HP. The nice part is I'm not making any decision till it's time to buy the motor. Either way a well will be built, it's just a matter of cutout shape. If an outboard, big square cutout with "filler piece" to be wedged in place after prop is down. If saildrive, permanent small oval cutout to match saildrive mounting unit.

A couple more words on capability,
John said he calculates and excellent righting moment, with over 1500 lbs of fixed and centerboard ballast. It has a very high ultimate stability, especially for a trailerable boat. The cockpit footwell volume is within NZ Coastguard Category One (Unlimited offshore) regs. This is more than a sheltered-water trailerable boat, for sure.

And for sailing ego, I never said she had to be a racer. She's not, but with her fairly long LWL-to-beam ratio, I'm thinking she'll be no slug, especially downwind with the c'board up.

-Barrett

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Barrett Faneuf:
Thanks all,

I am also curious how one reefs a sprit mizzen, or if one does. -BarrettBarrett-

Theory says "YES". My boat (Caledonia Yawl) has a similar sprit boom mizzen and boomkin off the stern. The sailplan shows a reef. The sailmaker built the sail with a reef line. I'm just waiting for the finished boat to test all of this theory.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p626f756d275cc44f21c4d68dce5d8fc3/fc3ddb87.jpg

Reef point on mizzen.

John Welsford should be able to confirm this.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Good work, Barrett and John.

Does she have low bulwarks forward?

I like her looks.

Alan

[Barrett Faneuf]

Venchka,
John did, indeed, confirm reefability.

Alan,
I'm not sure on the bulwarks, but I _think_ that none is drawn on that pic. It's a very preliminary drawing. I will have a nice toerail with scuppers up in that region, no doubt. For me a toerail is wide/tall enough to just about stand on (width of foot, not length), heeled over, so I guess the borderline between "bulkwark" and "toerail" blurs a bit. Whatever, I'll have some sort of foot-retention board thingee with scuppers to provide some level of footing at the edge of a sloping deck.

[Scott Rosen]

Very nice, Barrett. What is meant by "lap ply on stringers"?

[Barrett Faneuf]

Hiya, Scott;

"Lap ply on stringers" is my shorthand for John's preferred method of lap ply construction. I'm sure he can weigh in and explain it better, but in a nutshell, think stick-and-paper airplane models. Permanent bulkheads are set up. Stringers are let into notches in the bulkheads. Planks are attached to the stringers, lapping over the previous plank. It should actually be great for planing the rolling bevels, as the stringers are permanent battens for a plane-extension block to ride on. It adds more wood to the construction than other methods, but it should be hella strong, and the stringers provide the beginning structure for a lot of the inner woodwork. And one never has sacrificial plywood station forms to have to scrap out.

Most of his designs can be built upright, but I will build this one upside-down in the conventional manner, as turning her twice to paint the bottom isn't as wieldy as in the smaller designs. I'll finish and paint the hull before turning her, and (knock on wood) hopefully never have to turn her over again. Though with enough (post turnover) libations, I could probably entice a boat turning crew twice.

[john welsford]

You've explained it pretty well Barrett, you can add no spiling required to determine plank shapes, and the planks can be fitted in 8ft lengths which , same as the rest of the construction, makes for a series of small and easily managed jobs rather than fewer but bigger jobs. Means that the amateur, juggling home , job and boatbuilding can make much better progress.
Yes there is a low bulwark around the foredeck, and even an anchor well under the inboard end of the bowsprit.
Note though that the sidedecks have to be narrow, a consequence of the beam allowed within roadable limits, and I will be specifying a toerail to kep wet seaboots from sliding over the edge.

Next question?
JohnW

[Ged]

Sail area? LWL? Displacement (4900 lbs.?)?

[john welsford]

Ged, dry trailer weight , and fully provisioned for two people to head off for Hawaii are two different things. Dry trailer weight about 2000kg, Max sailing weight around 3200 KG.
Sail area, good question. I suppose it will have to have some? No seriously, the outline drawn is but an indication of the style and nature of the rig, and I am looking at an Sa/D of about 19 which is fairly lively for a boat like this.

JohnW

[Ged]

Thanks, Mr. Welsford.

I was trying to extrapolate a "half guess" on the displacement from Barrett's quote of two tons dry trailer weight.

From what I see and what some of the forumites are saying, I think Barrett will not have to worry about having sisterships. BTW, your philosophy regarding "light weather canvas" sounds good to me.

[Alan D. Hyde]

My compliments to Barrett and John.

That's an excellent design, well-suited to its owner's purposes.

Please keep us posted as she progresses, and don't forget the photos.

Alan

[Lone Star]

Looks nice... quite similar to Oughtred's Eun Mara.

[JimM]

Hi Barett
I realy like John Welsford Penguin. The one draw back to the boat was the bulkhead between the forward bunks and the main cabin. It seamed real clautraphobic to me to have to access the forward buck though the forward deck hatch. Does this design have direct access?

Hi John
I am interested in your comment about planking the boat 8 feet at a time. Would you care to expand on this method?

Jim McGee

[Barrett Faneuf]

Hi Jim,

The layout of this design is similar to Penguin's. Access to the forward bunk is by passage through the head (same as Penguin) as well as emergency access through the forward hatch. In neither case is the ONLY access to the forward bunk by hatch only. I'm sure John can confirm this.

I'll let John weigh in on the 8-foot planking detail.

[Steve Paskey]

Barrett is exactly right about access to the berth on Penguin. The following page has drawings and photos that illustrate Penguin's layout:

www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/penguin/index.htm (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/penguin/index.htm)

Scroll down, and on the right side you'll see a photo of the cabin looking from the companianway forward, with the head on the right and the forward berth beyond that.

[ 05-23-2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[JimM]

Hi Barrett and Steve

Thanks for the clarification. I read the following paragraph and drew the wrong concludion.

Queen sized beds are not common in boats this small, but that's what you'll find up forward, with enough headroom to sit comfortably up in bed reading, access and ventilation out through the forward hatch and a huge amount of storage underneath the bed flat, in the main cabin there are two big quarter berths aft, good leg space and enough room to move about without banging heads.
I guess the angle of the photo makes the hole in the bulkhead seam smaller than it is.

[john welsford]

Because the stringers define the fair curve that teh plnks should follow, as well as the shape of that plank. It is easy to cut a slightly over width slice off the side of the sheet and offer it up to the boat, clamp it temporarily in place and trace around with a pencil , above the upper and below the lower stringer. Cut it out and fit it wither with a bevel so you can scarf it in place or with butt blocks to join to the next.
You do need either a good eye for a fair curve, or to use a spare stringer or such to fair up the underside of the lap as this can make or break the look of the hull.
You do need ( as a designer) to be aware of the relationship between the bending resistance of the ply in relation to the stringers othewise you can get flat spots in the hull but it is a very good method for amateurs as they dont have to agonise over impenetrable texts on spiling planking to get an acceptable job.

JohnW

Originally posted by Barrett Faneuf:
Hi Jim,

The layout of this design is similar to Penguin's. Access to the forward bunk is by passage through the head (same as Penguin) as well as emergency access through the forward hatch. In neither case is the ONLY access to the forward bunk by hatch only. I'm sure John can confirm this.

I'll let John weigh in on the 8-foot planking detail.

[JimM]

Thanks John
I will think about using your method on the boat I an building. Sound much easier that trying to fight a 18' plank single handed.

Jim

[john welsford]

You've got it, in Barretts case that would be a 27ft x 10inch piece of half inch ply all slippery with epoxy. hard to handle, even after going through all the procedure to determine and lay out the shape. Me, I'm not only lazy, I have to keep it simple or my head starts to hurt.
JohnW

Originally posted by JimM:
Thanks John
I will think about using your method on the boat I an building. Sound much easier that trying to fight a 18' plank single handed.

Jim

[Barrett Faneuf]

Small update;

Hope to get some plans soon and I have begun the gravel-moving and post-hole-digging process to set the strongback.

The design name has also been finalized. The class will be "Nighean", which is Scots Gaelic for "Daughter". I'm thanking my parents for instilling the great passion I have for boating.

[ 09-15-2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Barrett Faneuf ]

[Tom Irvine]

This looks really nice - it might be just what I've been looking for. Thanks for commisioning the design.

Is it as easy to build as the Penguin?

Happy post hole digging!

Tom

[htom]

Whooa. Back up a mo.

6'6" headroom? INSIDE? I can stand up inside? !!!

There's a whole world of sailing that I've never imagined ....

[Tom Irvine]

Hey Barrett,

Just out of curiosity, what's your boatbuilding site like? Indoors or out? You speak of moving gravel and digging holes - I wondered if you were building outside.

Tom

[Barrett Faneuf]

Indeed, Tom.

I posted over in your "building site" thread, but here it is again. I'm building next to my house, under a (not yet there) tarp canopy shed.

Got strongback posts set this weekend. Though it doesn't look it in the pictures, I removed about 45 wheelbarrow loads of gravel to get to this point. The strongback is 4x22 feet. There is a lot of foreshortening in the photo; the total length of gravelled yard ("into" the photo) is 30 feet.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/p55cddbe3c50f22a5c18c031809508a5b/fb037aba.jpg

[Old Salt]

Barrett,

It has been over a year since any activity on this thread...what is the current status?

I understand that the plans are still not quite complete. I would like to build this one myself. I am in Oregon and am looking towards sailing in your area someday.

Joe