vacationer

[ty-alan]

i loocking for information or for anyone has built one . VACOTIONER BY STEVENSON.PROJECTS

[Mike Field]

You'll find a bulletin board devoted to Stevenson's boats at --

http://www.webcdi.com/cgi-bin/byyb_bbs.pl

Along with their Weekender, and to a lesser extent the Pocket Cruiser, they're very popular boats for inland waters -- comparatively easy to build, and with high initial stability.

Frank Hagan will be along soon, and he'll be able to tell you pretty-well anything you might want to know about them.

[James Manning]

I haven't sailed the Vacationer nor even seen one but I built the smaller Weekender and sailed it for some 15 years.
There are folks here on the net that view these boats in their proper perspective. The Weekender is essentially a 16 foot daysailor (the cabin is too small to really be of much use and virtually no builders of the current generation are weekending or sleeping in them). It is a handsome craft, without question, and I think most builders choose the design solely on the basis of salty looks.
Just be aware that built with 1/4 plywood, home center type hardware, and plastic tarp sails, you are not going to end up with anything like the Oughtred-designed works of art seen on this forum. Nor will the designs be as seaworthy.
Having said that, if you want an unballasted flat bottom skiff with traditional looks that can be built at minimum cost to learn to sail, by all means, go for it! There are very few alternatives in the size range that look as well in the water.
http://www.itctel.com/~jmanning/Weekender.JPG

[Frank Hagan]

Mike gave the best site for talking to someone who has built one. On the BBS he cited, ask Konrad about his Vacationer. He's a wild and wooly Hobie Cat sailor and ice sailor, so he should be able to answer your questions regarding performance.

There are a couple of people currently building them that are posting pics at the MSN Weekender Boatbuilding site at http://communities.msn.com/WeekenderBoatbuilding They could tell you how its going, and what pitfalls they ran in to. I built the little sister, the Weekender.

These are shoal draft, flat bottomed boats with no ballast or centerboard that sail a little like a cross between a Hobie Cat (but MUCH slower) and a dinghy. Lots of fun in protected water, but like any flat bottomed boat, pound like the dickens in chop. Not fun then.

If your intended sailing area is offshore in an ocean, or on the Great Lakes or San Francisco Bay, I'd go with a more traditional design. If your sailing area is limited to protected waters (behind a breakwater, non-Great lakes, etc.) then they are fun. And easy to build.

[TomRobb]

I'd consider loosing that useless cabin and fake clipper bow. And the big full length keel looks like it'd make tacking leisurly at best.

[Mike Field]

Tom, these boats have a big following. From what I've seen, most of their owner/builders aren't very nautical people (Frank's a shining example to the contrary,) and for them that clipper bow is just the bee's knees -- along with that very boaty-looking gaff rig.

The boats are essentially just dinghies-with-lids, but they're quite different-looking to what generally passes for a dinghy these days. They're also not difficult for amateur home-builders to produce.

Indeed, I think their appeal really lies in the fact that anyone can build one, combined with the individualistic-looking product that is the end result. (James put it well when he mentioned their salty looks.)

While I agree with your sentiments, but having had a bit to do with a few builders, I think to myself, Well, who am I to say these are not very good boats, unattractive though they might look to me? They fill a niche, they appeal to quite a lot of people, and they are at least made of wood. So I don't try to discourage people who want to build one.

But I do try to encourage them at the same time to look past the scroll-sawn plywood bow at some boats that didn't have their origins in Popular Mechanics. http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/s/cwm/3dlil/uhh.gif

[Russ]

A couple comments from the viewpoint of someone who built the weekender as simply a place to get started. About the clipper bow, define fake. Is the cabin useless? Maybe, but it seems to hold my gear pretty well.

This boat isn't the end all boat. Your right it doesn't tack very well. It also pounds in a chop and isn't exactly dry in bigger waves. However, I built it and it was cheap, it doesn't look too terrible and it gets me out on the water. The biggest plus about it is that I can't wait to start my next boat after I go to wooden boat school next summer.

In the meantime, I believe I'll go sailing.

[TomRobb]

Russ,
If you like your boat, great. Every one starts somewhere. Have fun http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif But imagine the satisfaction you'll get someday when your next, more complex perhaps, boat turns out well and gets envious stares at the boat ramp or marina.

My comments/criticism (and I think they're valid) were aimed at the thing itself, not at the people who obviously get satisfaction from them.
You're a tech at Collins? I used to work on one of your KWT-6 single sideband transcievers back in the dark ages. I imagine it has been superseeded by stuff that makes it look crude and quaint at best. What would you think if I were waxing rapsodic about building a spark-gap transmitter from plans I found in an old Boys Life magazine? QED http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/biggrin.gif

You've got the smarts. You've got the drive. Have a good time at the Woodenboat school. Neat place, great people. Enjoy. Learn.

[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 08-15-2001).]

[James Manning]

There is an issue with the Vacationer that would make me personally reject it out-of-hand. The Weekender is small enough that crew weight alone could be considered adequate ballast. That's common enough on dinghy daysailors of its size. On the other hand, the Vacationer is considerably larger and I question a ballast/displacement ratio of zero on such a large boat.
L.O.A.:24'
L.O.D.:21'
BEAM:8'
SAIL AREA: 193SQ.FT.
WEIGHT: 750LBS

[BrianCunningham]

personally I'd rather build a real sharpie or a light schooner

[James Manning]

The Light Schooner is a handsome looking devil. But, here again, no ballast. In the link below, Greg Carlson makes the comment it takes a crew of 4 or 5 in any kind of breeze. I would add, a well-trained and athletic crew perhaps.

http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html

[Frank Hagan]

TomRobb, you would be surprised at the people who compliment the Weekender. I have not yet launched her or put her back on her trailer without having to stop and answer questions. To be fair, I'm sure that would also happen to any traditionally built wood boat here in California, the land of the fiberglass boat, but it is rewarding. Its also a little disconcerting to have people so impressed with what is, in the end, a plywood box.) But it is a nice looking plywood box.

The Bolger boats don't appeal to me (except his larger ones like the St. Valery.) So the Weekender fit my needs as the boat I would build, and learn to sail on. The first time I took tiller and main sheet in hand, they were on a boat I built.

I constantly get people yelling out to me "nice boat!" and moving in for a closer look. Here in California, you don't see gaff rigs, so I sometimes get "Hey, nice Junk rig!" I smile and wave, sometimes ask if they want to trade their 32 footer.

Weekend before last, a couple from a resturant on the harbor finished their meal early when they saw me dowsing the sails, and drove to the ramp to meet me. I talked to them for about 20 minutes while they reminisced about sailing on the Chesapeake "back home" as kids. I shudder to think the useless cabin and clipper bow reminded them of the skipjacks or friendship sloops they remembered. But at least the Weekender doesn't look like a melted cheese sandwich like all the power boats around here.

Last weekend a WWII antique plane circled us on Lake Casitas in Ventura, and did a "wing wave", and the Lake Patrol officer came by to advise us not to lob any 8 pounders while on the lake (I don't have a cannon, but found out that the Lake Patrol officer built models of traditional craft which win awards at the county fair.)

The clipper bow, gaff rig and small cabin appeal to people. The cabin IS 6' long, my wife regularly naps in it while underway, so it is functional. Several builders have converted it into an open daysailor, so they can fit more people on it easily. I considered that. But really, you shouldn't have more than 2 for fun sailing, three is a crowd, and four really bogs it down.

Next, I'll buy a big fiberglass boat to sail off-shore, where I can take more than two other people along. And then build something more traditional, like a dinghy for my plastic boat. Complete with frames and plans from a real live boat designer. Building something larger probably isn't in the cards. The Weekender was a "just right" project for me, and I suspect if I had started on a 22 footer, I would be one of those guys with an unfinished hull in my back yard.

Anyway, to each his own, as you said. I do try to give people a realistic evaluation of the boat, and get them to realize this isn't Slocum's Spray, or even a Potter 15.

[cs]

Frank,
I think that you stated it best about these boats. I have gotten mine built yet, but I'm getting ready to start.

You just have to take these boats for what they are. Whether you like the look of the "fake" clipper bow and the cabin is a matter of personal taste. I personally like it. That is part of the appeal to it.

I live and sail in the middle of the south surronded by majestic mountains. So I guess my waters are about protected as you can get. I don't live on the lake and can't afford to pay for a berth at the marina so a small trailarble boat is the way to go for me. The weekender fits this bill great.

I view the weekender as the next logical step in my boat building and handling skills. The first boat I built was a 14' stich and glue sharpie by Jacques Merten. With this small flat bottomed sprit rigged boat I'm learning to sail. My next boat will be the weekender by the Stevensons. When that one is done I plan on building the Amigo from Glen-L. This is a wood strip gaff rigged boat capable of offshore cruising. After this one who knows.

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/dsn-ami.jpg

I will throw some other boats in there as well. I will actually be building a stich and glue canoe this week.

With that in mind all you have to do is keep in mind what type of boat you want, where you will sail, how much money you want to spend, and what you like.

Chad

[James Manning]

I almost hesitate to bring this up, but it should be discussed, not only in reference to these two boats, but to other sailboats that have cuddy cabins that are habitable by either children or adults, particularly sailboats that are non-self righting. It's the matter of staying in the cabin while the boat is underway.

Quite sometime ago, I wrote the Coast Guard about this issue and received a response from:
Peter D. Eikenberry
Recreational Boating Product Assurance Div.
U. S. Coast Guard (G-OPB-3)
2100 2nd St S.W.
Washington, D. C. 20593-0001
202-267-6894 Fax 202-267-4285
PEikenberry@comdt.uscg.mil
"No, the cabin is not a good place to be in the event of a knock down. The
American Boat and Yacht council recommends that all cabins have two means of
egress, two ways out. That's very hard to do on a 19 foot boat! So it's
best not to be in the cabin when sailing. The little cabins (cuddies) on
these boats are intended only as means of shelter when anchored or docked or
in a real down pour when you shouldn't have sail up anyway."

The American Boat and Yacht Council has a web presence (http://www.abycinc.org/index.cfm) and their function is written as follows:
"Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft is the product of a consensus of representatives of government, industry, and public sectors. The manual includes approximately 65 standards and technical information reports to the manufacturer, the consumer, and the general public in the design, construction, equipage, and maintenance of small craft."

The standard in question, I believe (I don't have a copy), is "H-3 Exterior Hatches, Doors and Port Lights".

No, these standards are not promulgated by a government entity, but it is my understanding (I'm not an attorney but I do teach a University course in Risk/Loss Control Management) that compliance with industry consensus standards is looked at in courts in consumer product liability cases.

My current boat has a small space under the deck attractive to small children and it's been emphasized by members of the class association for the boat to train children not to go in there when the boat is underway.

From public posts, the Weekender can turtle in a capsize. I just don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be in there while the boat is underway. I'm not singling out that boat either, please understand.

[Scott W]

These boats always bring up a lot of debate on this board. Fact is, the Weekender, Vacationer, and Pocket Cruiser are easy boats to build with traditional looks that always draws a crowd at the launching ramp. Evidently, some people who post here disagree about the looks but the proof is at the launching ramp!

They are a great boat for beginner sailors/builders because of the ease of construction and sailing. They are also great for experienced builders/sailors in that they are quick to build and easy to modify to personal taste. Don't let opinions on this forum drive you to build a boat that takes years or one you may never finish!

I agree with Jim Manning that the Weekender cabin is a cubby but know of several people who have very comfotably camped at anchor in their boats. I do not agree with him labelling all Stevenson boat cabins cubbys. While they don't have standing headroom, the Pocket Cruiser and Vacationer cabins are quite roomy. My 14' Pocket Cruiser has an 8' long by 6'9" wide cabin that is quite roomy for storing items under sail and/or two adults to sleep in.

Sailing these boats is a lot of fun. I find the Weekender and Pocket Cruiser to be very responsive under sail. The Pocket Cruiser sails flat like most catboats while the weekender likes to sail heeled. Tacking is easy but could be made easier by eliminating the jib clubfoot and going with jib sheets. The speed is very respectable for boats of this length.
http://gozips.uakron.edu/~widmier/SuitsUs/photos.html
http://gozips.uakron.edu/~widmier/SuitsUs/goodpc001.jpg
http://gozips.uakron.edu/~widmier/SuitsUs/scottdock1.jpg

[TerryC]

Tom,
The clipper bow isn't all fake, it supports the bowsprit negating the need for a bobstay. The cabin is big enough for 2 people to overnight and to keep things dry. Just because the boat doesn't fit your requirements doesn't mean it isn't a good boat. There are one helluva lot more Weekenders built and sailing than you would guess. At present there are nearly 100 builders posting on the BYYB BBS. I know of at least 25 launchings already this summer, and am sure there are double that many that we don't know about. Oh, BTW, ask the guys in this picture if the boat draws a crowd. We had 3 Weekenders at a regatta in June and were absolutely swamped with questions and "atta-boys". Not one person who saw the boats up close had anything negative to say and about 90% of them had boats moored in the marina. Several were liveaboards and wished they had something as small and easy to rig as these boats.


http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0NgAlAGwTtArruc74qsnTf*vdWZPl2bnbHnBG8j86VSljmTn*S ptzzLF*yg*BBibzGnNjSrL6L!SXHBOSokQx0g/phil2.jpg

http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0NgAzAGwT3gmODEwRqBRoT0pvaXiBwV1FvYeQhf!NxtO9Qiqn9 x2uX8xiA*RrCMnXMJQJGdyFLRKX3BMXIEl0Zg/3week.jpg

[This message has been edited by TerryC (edited 08-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TerryC (edited 08-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TerryC (edited 08-16-2001).]

[James Manning]

My Weekender on launch day in 1982.
http://itctel.com/~jmanning/Week21.jpg
By the way, did anyone sleep on the boats during the weekend of the Yankton Regatta?

[This message has been edited by James Manning (edited 08-16-2001).]

[TerryC]

I did, with my grandson, Trey. We did leave in the middle of the second night when tornado warnings, high winds, hail and a torrential downpour made me decide that it really wasn't the best place for Trey. The boat did weather the storm fine and we had to sop up about 4 inches of rainwater in the cockpit, but the cabin stayed dry. We could have stayed in the boat, but I get a little paranoid with the little guy along.

[James Manning]

For those interested in what could be called shallow draft cruisers of the flat bottom type, JR Benford has several illustrated in his design catalog.
19 foot Catspaw
LOA-19ft-6in
LWL-18
Beam-7ft-9in
Draft, CB up/down-1ft-4in/4ft-8in
Displacement-3475#
Ballast-500#
Sail area-256
Headroom-4ft.-8 1/2 in.

Also, he has a series of sailing dory designs (flat bottom with fin keels) ranging from 26 ft. to 37.5 feet. Ballast/Displacement ratios of 0.56 to 0.63
Headroom 5 ft.-3 in. to 6 ft.-4 in.

His 97 page design catalog can be obtained:
Benford Design Group
1-800-684-5537
PO Box 447
Michaels, MD 21663

I was fist exposed to a Benford design at the Port Townsend (WA) Woodenboat show in 1992. Had a long conversation with a proud owner of his 30 foot design (available in some 22 different rig configurations!)

[Vanderlinde]

I didn't build the Vacationer. I built the Weekender, the smaller sister in the fleet designed by Stevenson Projects.

It took about a year and a half of very part-time work, followed by one month of intense work (all my spare time, and then some) to finalize my boat, the Teresa Marie, for our vacation last month. Though the boat was seaworthy at the start of our vacation, I still had some minor details to attend to prior to first launch.

We went camping on Cape Cod, and parked the boat/trailer in the main lot of the campground. For the first two days there, I worked on the small details. Anytime I was there, I had a constant parade of people asking questions about the boat and it's construction. Not a single person left without multiple compliments about the Teresa Marie. My favorite was a somewhat backhanded one - from an older gentleman who has sailed wooden boats all his life: "Looks like she was built in the early 1900's. How long did it take to restore her?"

At both Pammet Harbor, and Wellfleet Harbor, on the Cape, we couldn't make a single move without attracting several onlookers and admirers. And that was just at the boat launch ramp! Again, multiple compliments, even from sailors with "more classic" Alden and Hinkley designed boats.

While sailing on our first trip, a couple came out to us in their Boston Whaler. They had watched from shore as we departed, and climbed into their boat to come out to us. They came to compliment us on our "beautiful little boat. It is the best looking boat on the bay; so sharp and classy looking."

So, with compliments like that from the sailing crowd, I would have to say that the "useless cabin and fake clipper bow" must be unappealing to a very select few.

I did modify the cabin in order to enlarge the cockpit. I didn't feel the original cockpit would be large enough for me, my wife, and ouor two kids, nor did I feel it would be safe to have the kids in the cabin in the unlikely event of a capsize. I also did not plan on overnighting. Therefore, I moved the rear cabin bulkhead forward a ways to create a larger cockpit and turn the cabin into, essentially, a large cuddy. This space is now perfect for

The Weekender/Vacationer appeals to me in many ways. One is looks. No, it is not a Herreshoff design. No, it does not have the looks of an Alden, or Oughtred (sp?) design. It has it's own appeal, somewhat "salty", somewhat older, somewhat quirky. But, for many, that is very appealing. The second was for it's ease of build and transport. The third was for it's cost. I could afford a $15,000 boat. But now, I have the pride of owning a boat that I built with my very own hands, in a very affordable manner. That is a satisfaction I would never have if I bought an off-the-shelf new or used model.

Both boats have their problems, and these have also been addressed on the builder's buletin board site (noted above) and on other web sites (this one included).

So, though it is not a "classic" wooden boat, designed by one of the few favored designer/builders, I would recommend you not disregard this little gem, if it fits your purpose.


[This message has been edited by Vanderlinde (edited 08-21-2001).]

[James Manning]

First some clarification on my earlier post. I only slept on my Weekender twice. I simply don't find that small a space comfortable, but I should not have said that the majority of current builders do not weekend or sleep in them.
I think that part of the statements about a Weekender not being "real" stem from the fact it's not, for example, a real Friendship. From public statements of the Stevensons, and their recollections, the idea for the design evolved after reading the old Time Life book, "Classic Boat" about Jarvis Newman's restoration of the 31 foot Dictator. I think it can be said the boat is a simplification with an idea toward capturing at least the look of a classic vessel.
I can add, based on my own ownership of the boat over the years, that I found myself wishing for a "real" classic such as a Haven 12 1/2. And in retrospect, perhaps I should have built a true classic. Bear in mind, I built my Weekender before the Internet, from a 2 sheet plan which left a lot to be desired. In retrospect (and 20/20 hindsight is the best), I should not have been in such a rush to get to the water with a simple design. Consideration should be given to what you have when you do get to the water.

I might add to the Weekender's builders (and remember I've been there) that the Weekender is not the only boat that receives rave reviews at the trailer landings and docks.
Right now, I am hoping to build another boat in retirement when I would have the time for such a project. I learned a lot about the process having built the Weekender and in a restoration project on another boat. I'm seriouly considering a JR Benford design, 18 foot gaff yawl. Displacement of 4200# with ballast of 1500#. Now THAT design will have the ability to carry sail! It draws 3 feet as well, which I consider the maximum for a trailerable sailboat (and even then, telescoping trailer tongue extensions would be handy, if not required). I figure a two year project and 10K+.

[Art Read]

Vanderlinde... Small world! I was the guy driving that Whaler named "Sloe Gin" full of the extended family and way too much picnic gear heading into Pamet while you and your family were motoring out. You probably noticed the long, long look you got as we past each other. I recognised her as a "Weekender/Vacationer" type and was tempted to hail you. Wondered if you might be a member here... But my nieces were already getting tired of me going miles out of our way every time I spotted another wooden boat! Nice job. She looked great out there!

[This message has been edited by Art Read (edited 08-26-2001).]

[Dave Hancock]

They're not a bad boat for what they are. But if you're going to go so far as to get involved in the 24' Vacationer, why not do the 24' Chespeake Flattie out of Reuel Parker "Sharpie Book". Pretty much the same plywood construction (with the exception of keelson and centerboard versus deep laminated faux keel) and ten times the boat in a comparable size, cost and construction time vessel - and when you outgrow it you can actually get something for it.

-drh