Pacific Qualifications

[Mr. Smee]

Another newbie here who's been lurking beneath the waves for a while and finally decided to surface. Like so many begining builders before me, I too am stuck in the maelstrom of indecision. For a first build I am searching for a 16 foot or less trailer queen (No! Not the mobile home park type.) with a center/dagger board suitable for Southern California Pacific seas. I've looked at just about every design and internet site and most boats seem to be for flat or protected waters. Any SoCal builders (or East Coasters as well) out there with any experience beyond the breakwaters who can give an opinion on what's safe n' sane?

Mr. Smee - Cast ashore on the South Left Coast

[Hwyl]

The Stornoway 16 was discussed in this forum recently. It seems like an update of the Wayfarer, it looks like a seaworthy, capacious and fast daysailer http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003577

[Ian McColgin]

At only two feet longer than you say, Gardner's Chamberlain Gunning dory is hard to beat for a boat that can be rowed through the surf and sailed happily. It would be well to bulkhead from the foremost and aftmost frames and foam the ends right to the gunnels. Also can't hurt to build right from the start with an inner bottom (or deck) about 3" above the bottom and foam that. Then with elvstrom bailers you'll be self-rescuing.

Such a boat will take an adventerous person, couple or small family on lovely outings and beach cruises.

[Jack Heinlen]

Lot's of good designs out there. Check out the Core Sound boats.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/default.htm

And here's a link to some good information.

http://www.dca.uk.com/

[ 08-10-2004, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[AngWood]

How about a Pelican? The Great Pelican is 16 ft., quite wide and roomy, and is meant to handle relatively rough water. Also fairly easy to build.

http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/

[ 08-10-2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: AngWood ]

[Wiley Baggins]

At the risk of sounding like one of those O&O curmudgeons, ;) what do you plan on doing with the boat? Daysailing? Camp cruising? Other?

[Dave Fleming]

O&O West here.

Temecula is in north-eastern San Diego County, the closest launching ramps outside of the greater LA area are probably on Shelter Island, Mission Bay, Chula Vista, or Oceanside.
Recently we launched from Shelter Island on a Sunday, weather was fine but traffic on the Bay was heavy. We were in a 20 footer ( photo in Happy Birthday, SWIMPAL post in People and Places). We went out as far as the final monument on the jetty opposite Point Loma with no trouble at all from wind or sea. It was the traffic we had to be aware of. Like I-15 during rush hour. Tacking required almost eyes in the back of your head. That, to me, takes some joy out of being on the water but you do have to take it in stride. Several sailing vessels we noted,motored out past the jetty before raising sail. I am leaning that way and is one of the principal reasons I am looking at Hearts Desire II, the other being SWIMPAL would like a bit of privacy for those ahem, moments, shall we say?

Launching through the surf is something I have rarely seen in the years we have been down here. Mostly it was the Lifeguards in their Dory competitions. Might be good to check with the State Parks, The City and the County of San Diego about that, as the coast is either in one or the others jurisdiction. Mission Bay is a ***madhouse*** with all those "things" zooming all over the place and clear out to the breakers at the entrance. Oceanside, I have not been to in awhile, but I suspect being the only launch spot for North County it could be packed in the better weather and the breakwater entrance is on the narrow side for tacking etc..
I will not go into the weather in this lengthy post but we can discuss that either on or off Forums if you wish.

Keep this in mind, KELP!

[ 08-10-2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Krueg]

As Dave said, there's not a lot of beach launching happening around here.

However I know launching is allowed from the beach at La Jolla. A lot of people launch kayaks and small aluminum and/or inflatable boats to fish the local kelp beds.

I pictured myself surf launching a gunning dory like Ian suggests, sounds like a lot of fun. Something to think about...

Dave, that Shelter Island ramp sure can get a little crazy can't it. Lots of yahoos down there.

Eric

[Dave Fleming]

Eric, a little crazy? That is an understatement.
We launched at about 10:AM after the fishing fanatics were gone and it was nice and empty but, when we came back at about 2:30PM, it was a mad house. Veritable fleets of those 'things' were launching and zooming all over the enclosed breakwater waiting for one and other.
With just 'Ash Breeze' we made our way to the west landing float and were able to retrieve without any trouble. Whew!

[Krueg]

Yeah, I forgot my winky thing ;) . Madhouse is much closer to the mark. The total lack of consideration for others exhibited by some baffles my mind, not to mention boat handling skills (or lack thereof). I know everybody's got to learn some time, but that's not the ramp to do it. Makes for good spectating though.

Apologies to Mr. Smee for going off topic.

[Dave Fleming]

Apologies to Mr. Smee for going off topic.Seconded here.

[Meerkat]

Welsford Pathfinder (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003534) or his Navigator. Designed for a Pacific a lot rougher than usually found off the SoCal coast. Good pics of the boats in rough waters and lots of links too on the URL above.

[Dave Fleming]

Let me say this about that....

First off I know both bodies of water mentioned in one design brief.
Tomales Bay ain't San Diego Bay by a long shot.

Tomales is shallow, affected by the summer wind convections which kick up a nasty and sometimes vicious chop. Traffic is light if any at all. Small boats rarely if ever leave the Bay over the entrance shallows.

San Diego is deep water, Nuke Carriers, Cruise Liners, Cargo Carriers, all access the Bay.

Whilst on the Pacific Coast we do not have the same weather patterns as more northernly San Francisco-Tomales-Bodega Bays have.

We in San Diego are affected by onshore flows, not too unusual Santa Ana ie: desert winds coming off the eastern part of the county and, weather patterns from the Gulf of Mexico as well as Southern Pacific and Northern Pacific flows.

Summer sailing in San Diego sheltered waters is not consistent with dead spots, wind shifts and currents depending where you are ie: San Diego Bay, north or south. Mission Bay, east or west. Or off the coast.
Reference my post on possible launching sites for further details on local conditions.

I would personally and conservatively have a motor on my boat in the conditions here in San Diego especially if going coastal.

[Meerkat]

Dave; Not consistant.... do things happen in SD Bay or not? :confused:

[Mr. Smee]

Thanks to everyone for responding.

Mr. McColgin - I knew of all the designs except the Chamberlain Gunning dory. I've been eyeing the Core Sounds, Navigators, and Stornoway boats so now I'll take a look at the Gunners.

AngWood - The Pelicans I've seen too, but the boxey front looks like it wouldn't cut through the waves too smoothly. Great Asian style, though, which the Commodorina would like.

Meerkat - I've been following Barrett's work on her Navigators. If her boats will handle the rips and currents of the Puget Sound then sailing one out here should be OK.

Mr. Baggins- As Dave Fleming and Mr. Krueg have kindly put it the traffic jams out here slop over into the Pacific. To avoid the jet skis and 500hp powerboats you need to be offshore daysailing. (I have a kayak now and not much courtesy is extended to non-power craft.) As far as camp cruising it's almost nonexistant unless you're off to one of the islands (30 miles +!).

Mr. Fleming and Mr. Krueg - I have a job that requires me to work weekends so I can have my pick of launches during the week days. The only one I've crossed off my list is La Jolla because of divers, swimmers, and kayakers. But no matter where I put in I still have to deal with the I-15! Dave, I'll look at your photos as soon as I'm done with researching Mr. McColgin's recommendations.

Thanks again everyone.
Mr. Smee - There's that ticking again!