Wide, Short Canoe

[Roger Stouff]

Anybody know of plans for a wide, stable canoe of 12 - 14' max? I'm thinking at least 36' wide for a stable fly fishing platform.

Thanks.

[Popeye]

12' Pack Canoe C. Grosjean 12' x 35" x 11½" W/C, strip Franklin Cedar Canoes

Chemaunis Joe Ziemba 12' x 33" x 12¼" strip Carrying Place Canoe Works

14' Solo Canoe E.H. Gerrish (Grosjean) 14'8" x 34" x 12½" W/C, strip Franklin Cedar Canoes

Camp-Mate Joe Ziemba 14' x 36" x 12¾" strip Carrying Place Canoe Works

Puddle Duck Gil Gilpatrick 14' x 34½" x 12" strip Gilpatrick

[ 03-13-2006, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: popeye ]

[htom]

Not a canoe, but the Rice Lake Skiff comes to mind: http://www.bearmountainboats.com/13-9RiceLakeSkiff.htm

You might write to them and ask if they know of such a canoe, or one of their larger ones (to get the beam for stability) that might be severely shortened.

Or any single user canoe with a pair of outriggers; a couple of large foam fenders on the ends of a 2x4 for a trial craft.

[Brian Palmer]

I fly fish a lot from two types of canoes:

An 11.5 ft x 28 inch double paddle canoe, and

A 17 ft x 33 inch Grumman.

I just don't stand up and cast from a sitting position. Less likely to spook the fish that way, too.

-- Brian

[Popeye]

http://www.jpwinc.com/images/rod1910em.jpg

[Tar Devil]

Htom, that's one very, very lovely boat!

http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery/RiceLake/RiceLake01.jpg

Later,

Phil

[Alan D. Hyde]

Perhaps a punt, Roger?

Years ago, I seem to recall having seen traditional wooden punts in your part of the country...

Alan

Here are two on a UK website---

http://www.ottersports.com/images/p3.jpg
http://www.ottersports.com/images/p4.jpg

I would be tempted to splay the sides out to increase stability, however...

Here's a diagram of a typical Oxonian punt (by a Cantabarian likely, who's got the bow and stern reversed, a common problem in that "other place")---

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Punt-construction.png/600px-Punt-construction.png

From Wikipedia---

A traditional punt is about 24 feet long and 3 feet wide (7.5 by 1 m). The sides are about 18 inches (0.5 m) deep. Both the bow and the stern are cut square, with a long shallow "swim"; this is to say that the underside of the boat slopes very gently at the front and the back.

The bottom of the punt is made with long, narrow planks stretching fore and aft, attached to the flat sides and the treads. In order to allow the wood to swell when it gets wet, the planks are set a small distance apart (traditionally the width of an old penny, about 1–2 mm). The gaps are caulked; this caulking normally needs to be renewed annually. The treads are attached to the sides with small wooden "knees", which may be vertical or set at an angle. At the back of the boat, the punt will be strengthened with a box or short deck called a "till" which extends some six feet (2 m) forward from the stern (this is Cantaberian--- the till is actually, as Oxonians know, the foredeck). This box is normally closed in and provides additional torsional rigidity. Note that even though a punt can be punted with equal facility in either direction, the Thames punt-building tradition was that the till was at the stern (confused as they were).

The diagram above shows a punt without seats. The seats are usually just a simple board fitting against blocks on the sides, with cushions. The gaps between the treads are normally fitted with gratings to allow the passengers to keep their feet dry.

Punting on the Isis---
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/files/images/24809.jpg

Notice the punters here can tell bow from stern..

[ 03-13-2006, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Roger Stouff]

Guys, thanks for all the input. Some are not suitable because I forgot to mention portability. I want to carry this and put it over into a puddle somewhere. Pontoon boats aren't acceptable cause of the gators! smile.gif

Besides, I might wanna try my hand at cedar strip building. If I decide not to, I'm gonna build Glen-L's "Imp":

http://glen-l.com/designs/canu-row/canu-row-images/dsn-impc.jpg

Thanks for all the input, that'll help me decide!

[Lewisboats]

This was for my son. (edited to add. I know...no pfd. It is down in the bottom, the pond is about 3 ft deep with a mud bottom and he is a competition swimmer and only about 25 ft away from me and his swimmer sister)

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/CubCanuPics/Onthewater13.JPG

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Plans/Cub canu.doc (http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Plans/Cubcanu.doc)

Use these plans (above) with the modifications (below)

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewis boatworks/Plans/CubCanu_MkII_and_ScoutCanu.doc (http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Plans/CubCanu_MkII_and_ScoutCanu.doc)

And pictures of the building are here:
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatwo rks/html/ScoutCanubuildfront_a.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/html/ScoutCanubuildfront_a.htm)

Steve

[ 03-13-2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Lewisboats ]

[JimD]

Lotsa canoes here:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Opcan15.htm

[garland reese]

Could an Adirondak Guideboat of about 14 feet be used. I've seen a picture of a guy fishing out of a recreational type rowing shell, using some sort of an apparatus that held the oars horizontal and 90 degrees to the gunnel for stability while standing and casting.
I wonder if the oars could be used for added stability in a guideboat? Nick shade sells plans for a stripper guideboat.

[ 03-13-2006, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

[Ron Carter]

The Punt is very similar to a boat developed for the Pere Marquette River here in Michigan. They disappeared with the introduction of the Lamprey and a huge downturn in quality fly fishing. They were polled from the stern. I had a lesson from one of the old guides about 40 years ago. Was quite an art to stand back there and not lever yourself off of the stern platform snubbing in a good current. There are a few derelicts around but I don't think there is still one in use. Been replaced by the drift boats. Too bad because almost anyone can row a drift boat which has put a lot of extra pressure on the river.

[RodB]

You should check out the Lutra flyfisher both the 17 footer and the smaller one. . . at

http://www.arrowheadboats.com

These boats were specifically designed for flyfishing and are very stable, self rescuing, and glued ply labstrake...they look great. Woodenboat had an article on the Lutra Flyfisher within the last year or so...good photos too. The DVD walks you right through the construction and it is very easy. Total weight is about 60lbs and it has good storage compartments, floatation compartments, etc... and very comfortable seat with back support. The seating can be modified for placement if you usually plan to use the Lutra flyfisher singlehanded.

A short video on the website shows a guy self rescuing this craft, and it quite easy.

The gallery of photos shows some closeups of her and two guys in her standing to illustrate the stability.

http://www.arrowheadboats.com/gallery/one/

RB

[ 03-13-2006, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Wiley Baggins]

Roger,

Take a look at the Modified McInnis Bateau in WB51. It's also in one of Gardner's books (but I don't recall the specific title). It might be just what you're looking for.

[Hughman]

Would this work?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p67842a722174e8c3b028b27324a6d41c/efd89ab4.jpg

[Fitz]

I personally think longer is better :cool: . Anyway, here's my latest acquisition. It is a Chestnut Canoe Co. wood and canvas Ogilvy. These were built for the shallow salmon fisheries in New Brunwick. 36 in. wide and 16 ft long. Flat bottom, shoe keel and really wide 3in. ribs for rocky streams. A good canoe for poling.

This one needs some TLC :rolleyes: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p411ce1a562eee6cdfeab6cdb1ff7a304/efd88837.jpg

[ 03-13-2006, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Fitz ]

[Roger Stouff]

So much to look at, thanks all, I really appreciate it.
Hughman, that was a hoot. smile.gif

[htom]

Steve Redmond's Whisp, the Flounder Bay Cosine Pram, and the Gardner/Herreshoff 10' pram could be candidates, too.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Roger, I've found the French name of the boats (punts) I was thinking of---

"The flat boat and related types are also very popular in Louisiana. Boats with a flat bottom and a blunt bow and stern have been around since the earliest colonial days. Chaland is the local French term for a simple flat boat or barge; the English speakers refer to them as punts or scows..."

This is from the link below (by C. Ray Brassieur), which may be of interest to you---

http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/creole_art_boatbuild_unfat.html

* * * * * * *

Alan

[Roger Stouff]

Alan, I know the work well!

[Alan D. Hyde]

Roger, I would guess that with some good wine, cheese, a little bread and suitable other comestibles, you and the right young woman might have an agreeable time punting... :D

Alan

[Roger Stouff]

:D :cool:

[Alan D. Hyde]

Speaking from experience, Roger, I can assure you that it's a MOST agreeable way to pass the time.. :D

Alan

http://www.oxford.gov.uk/files/images/24809.jpg

[ 03-14-2006, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[BrianY]

if you're not going to stand up in it, how 'bout a Mill Creek 13 kayak from CLC ?
http://www.clcboats.com/boats/millcreek.php

[Doug Canada]

Bob Special 15' by 36"
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/15-0BobsSpecial.htm

Mill Creek
http://www.clcboats.com/boats/millcreek.php

Rob Roy
(?)

Doug

.

[Doug Canada]

Check Canadian Canoe Routes as well;
http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/
( www.myccr.com (http://www.myccr.com) )

Doug

.

[Kermit]

Gartside's pram:

http://www.gartsideboats.com/7pram.php

[Matt Middleton]

How about the Montana Guide Boat (http://butlerprojects.com/boats/montanaguideboat/index.htm) from Butler Projects? I've thought it would make an interesting small boat to fish from.

Regards,
Matt

[Jeremy Burnett]

Alan,I dont quite see why you say the drawing has the bow and stern the wrong way round,isnt that deck,in the stern, what the "punter" stands on?They are very stable and will withstand many different crewing possibilities, as well as being great for camping.

[Popeye]

for fly fishing i would also look for something with low ends and possibly a shoe keel if solo paddling a short boat

[cs]

Rogar, I built a 16' Micmac from the plans out of David Hazen's "The Stipper's Guide to Canoe-Building." Excellent and very stable canoe. I know it is a little longer than what you asked for, but it is an excellent canoe from what little I know about canoes.

Here is a photo of it propped up next to the Weekender.

http://a2.cpimg.com/image/9C/B2/36511132-0a3b-028001DF-.jpg

and here is a construction photo.

http://a1.cpimg.com/image/A5/81/31795621-be27-028001DF-.jpg

more at this link (http://members6.clubphoto.com/chad414100/654655/owner-0179.phtml)

Chad

[ 03-15-2006, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: cs ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

Well, Jeremy, there's a difference in opinion and practice.

In Cambridge and on much of the Thames, the practice is as you state.

In Oxford, the longer deck is seen as the the bow, and the polesman stands either within the punt, on the floorboards (more stable, particularly for a large man), or on a shorter stern deck (see photo above). Or, at least, that's how it was done when I was there in 1970-71.

Alan

There are some differences in practice between Oxon. (the senior institution) and Cantab.
The Oxonian practice is invariably the better one, of course. :D

[ 03-15-2006, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Jeremy Burnett]

Thanks Alan, another of those little things that makes these venerable establishments so interesting.My Father was a punt racer between the wars,the racing punts were narrower than the camping ones,and no doubt left the velvet cushions ashore.We used to go in a camping one during the 40's,on the lower Thames and a tributary called the Wey.

[Roger Stouff]

All under consideration now, and thank you all again! I'll never make a decision like this! smile.gif

[Alan D. Hyde]

Roger, the velvet cushions that Jeremy mentions, and the space in which you & your paramour/passenger may put them to exceedingly agreeable use in some idyllic riverbank cove, are happy reasons to think good thoughts about punts... :D

Alan

[FG]

Some ballast and a low seat will make most canoes pretty stable. I'd look at the puddle duck by gilpatrick or a double paddle design. I did a 10/12 version of a bobs special and use that. Should have the seat an inch lower than it is though.

[JEM]

Roger,

If you're open to Stitch and Glue and want a simpler boat to build, I can easily scale the length of my Townsend.

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=Townsend

[Roger Stouff]

Thank you all for your help. Jem, I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier, but thanks to you too for the kind offer.

I settled on Clark Craft's "Niagara" at 13'6" with a 36" beam. It's a frame and plywood canoe at 70 lbs.

After careful consideration of the facts (and especially the pocketbook!) I decided strip building was a) too expensive for a throw-in-the-truck fishing canoe and b) I couldn't find any with the length-width I wanted.

I also have never really liked stitch and glue construction, no offense to anyone, I'm not down on it, I just don't like to do it.

I really appreicate all the input, on forum and off, it gave me a lot to look at and think about. I expect I'll be posting construction pix. I ordered the plans today.

Best regards from the Rez,
RS