How transfer lines to board

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Ok so I've got a full scale paper plan. I've never found a good way to transfer the lines to a board for cutting. I've tried carbon paper, tried dressmakers pattern wheel, tried cutting the paper out and using it at the pattern- so, whats the scoop- how do you guys get the jib done.

Also, might it be a good thing to oversaw a bit and then sand to fit?

[TomRobb]

If the lofting were on the floor or on plywood you could use the box nails on edge thing. On paper, the ways you mentioned sound workable. Rolling up the floor to save the drawing can be rather awkward. :D

[ken mcclure]

What I did was to cut little windows in the full scale plan and make marks on the wood through each of the windows. I then connected the dots with a batten, and presto!

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Geez- there's gotta be a better way

[Wild Dingo]

Ive heard it said if youve got the full scale paper plans you can glue them to the timber your going to use and cut to the plans themselves? {note here Im assuming that by full scale your saying full size!} but there could be other ways... :rolleyes:

[Donn]

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[ 01-28-2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Donn Westervelt ]

[TomRobb]

Geez Donn, you had me worried for a minute. I thought you were seling the stuff - then the social dilemma - do I say something or mind my own business :rolleyes:

[Dale R. Hamilton]

HAH! I knew there was a way! Many thanks Donn- ringing them up now to order a starter supply,

Now, can you recommend where I can get plans lofted up to full size?

[SailBoatDude]

Dale, the most intimate you can get with a design is on the lofting floor humping (couldn't help it) a full size drawing of the next creation from your hand's efforts (okay, maybe not next)

Understanding the elements of a design was always best for me, drawing the thing up form the offsets. Seeing if I can find the mistakes others who've built that design have, sweetening up a line, making changes, marveling at the work of the designer's vision, getting a general feel for the dimensions and proportions of the craft and it's needed structure all make lofting a good job for the beginning of a project that will not have instant gratification.

After you do loft the lines, many months later you'll come across a part of the construction that has you weeping in the moaning chair and you'll think back to the section drawing you made of that area of the beast, remembering how you thought this section would be a real bitch to get done. It will not help you much, but that drawing will prove to be the lifesaver, I'll bet. The innate knowledge you get from being that close to the "lines" of the boat will allow you to tackle that bear job with a solution you derived at, with the mockups taken form the lofting or the intimacy you have with the drawing. Looking at a set of plans and a rolled up set of lines you pull out of their tubes every once and awhile, doesn't give me at least, the confidence to move ahead.

If you do decide to loft the lines, bring your incense burner and loving wife to rub your shoulders (better get her use to it early, she'll be doing it a lot)

[pippo]

My experience with full size patterns has been that, at the end, you don't really save much time and most probably you end up with a less precise drawing.
I definitely prefer to loft the lines myself with pencil, nails, tape measure and flexible batten.

[Bruce Taylor]

Very true, SailBoatDude.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Well thanks guys- I appreciate what you are telling me. Lofting truely does establish a spiritual connection with your work. I appreciate that- but I can't do it. I don't know how to sweeten up a line- and I certainly don't feel equal to improving the architech's lines. I guess thats where we differ- and I accept that. I can build what others may draw (although it may take several attempts), and I can certainly alter non-structural details to fit my individual purpose- But I will not venture into an area where I have no formal training, little experience, and no confidence.

[Wild Dingo]

Dale... Just a thought regarding the lofting issue above mate...

Could you not get a end roll of newspaper print paper from somewhere? thats the short end of the huge roll they use to print newspapers from... its clear paper a bit thin but fine for what Im going to suggest

Practice using that paper and the offsets and draw the boat to a larger scale than the drawings {or smaller whichever the case}... or rather loft them from the paper drawings to a size more easily read and handled

Ive done this with the full size plans for the Preditor and Ocean Pointer although there was no need to... Ive done so with the full plans of Al Masons Sørkust design and several canoe plans... Ive done so with a whole heep of plans that TonyH sent me scanned from the old Rudder MotorBoating and Yatching mags... its a learning curve and I believe even though Ive never done anything like it before... from looking from one to the other the level of getting better at it is improving each time I do it!... which for Sørkust is now about 4 times!! such sweet lines she has...

Anyway it will hold me in good stead for when I loft to full size which must be done when I build...

Anyway what Im saying is dont talk yourself out of learning a new thing simply because you havent tried it or are wary of the new... try to do it... there is a great article in Woodenboat mag #110 and #111 by Greg Rossel called "Lofting Demystified" that can help you immensely!... If you dont have them give me a hoi! and I'll try to email them to you... worth the read at least??

Have a go mate... probably surprise yourself I know I did!! :cool: Mind you my first roll of paper filled the rubbish bin man did I make some mistakes!! whoooeee! but persurvear {sp?} mate and you will get it Im sure of that!

Best of luck either way! :cool:

[Ron Linton]

Dale, yes to what Dude, Pippo, and Shane said about lofting. In addition to books that show how to loft, check out this website: http://facstaff.colstate.edu/linton_ronald/default.htm where I've set up some animations that show how to loft Stambaugh's Windward 24. Be sure to turn your speakers on...

Ron Linton

[Wild Dingo]

Now thats a helpful site Ron! Thanks :cool:

[edsr]

Large white paper can be had for nothing or for very cheap by visiting your friendly local photographer. When a roll of paper gets too short to sweep from vertical to horizontal and hide the horizon line it usually gets put aside. Background paper is good quality and sturdy as papers go. Most photographers would be happy to either give you their short rolls or sell them at a low rate. You can find 4', 8', and 12' wide rolls. It's worth a phone call or two if you are looking for wide paper.
edsr

[Snoo973]

ok, im a "going to be" boatbuilder (still in the process to convince my better half that lofting on the kitchen floor is the most natural thing in the world). Anyhow im using the forum mostly to learn some things before actually starting anything, or even deciding for good which boat to build.

On depending on the kind of ink used to print the plans sometimes its easy to transfer them putting them on the board face down and ironing on the back, take away the plans and.. the ink left the mark on the wood.
Now this is just a modest suggestion i dont expect someone liking it, its used for models, i used it to build an ULM (its a plane, yes thats what i do: i fly) and it worked perfectly without any change in dimensions.
Once said that, id loft in the traditional way, even just because its more fun.

Venice, Italy

[Bruce Taylor]

Lofting truely does establish a spiritual connection with your work. I appreciate thatNot spiritual...practical.

It isn't yoga, or tai chi, or some kind of interpretive dance. It's just a dead simple way of making sure that all the parts of your boat will fit together as they should. If you build exactly what you've lofted, you can't go too far off course (especially true if you have changing bevels and keel rabbets to cut).

Also, as Dude points out, having gotten inside the design during the lofting, you will find it easier to visualize the whole project.

There's nothing wrong with using full-sized patterns, when they're available, but don't be intimidated by lofting. It's easy.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

well I tell you what. I'm sufficiently shamed to at least go and pull vol's 110 and 111 and read them. Not adverse to trying a new thing- but reserve the right revert to my original position.

[Bruce Taylor]

That's the spirit! By all means skip the lofting, if you prefer, but don't be spooked by it.

My brain's a sieve...what are you building?

[reddog]

Dale;
Way to go! As Bruce has mentioned above lofting isn't sorcery but a very precise method of laying down the boat in full scale.The benifits are immense and the connection you develop with your boat quite helpful.You'll have no problem determining a sweet line once you see it on the floor or paper.
Have at it and you can always use the full size drawings as a backup plan.
Earl

[tyhomer]

Hello, you may want to experiment with this suggestion, but you can either draw your plans on a large piece of paper or use your originals. On the back side of the plans, using a dark wax crayon or a dark colored pencil that contains wax,(sometimes graphite works) retrace your plans. They will be backwards now. Then place them with the wax side down on the wood and iron them. The wax should transfer to the wood. Caution... if your original plans are on heat transfer or sensitive paper, this won't work. The plans will just turn black.
Terry

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Not building quite yet- I'm just finishing restoration of a vintage Mack semi. After 2 years of grease under my nails I'm suffering from wood deprivation. I've acquired Ray Sargeants plans for his 15'mahogany runabout and anticipate begining within the next couple months. Thats why I wanted this line transfer question answered. Appreciate the good advice from all.

[SailBoatDude]

Dale, glad you're going to at least look up the process. It isn't very hard, though can be a bit tedious at times. Making things fair isn't hard either, especially if you aren't a perfectionist. There are several books and web sources for the info on How-To-Do lofting.

I usually do two drawings, the first is the whole thing from the offsets. The second is the station molds. The stations are done two or three at a time on a piece of mylar and each is taped down to a framing table that I build bigger them the largest station mold I have to build. I build right on top of the drawing. After I've built a couple of frames, I've buggered up the drawing enough to need changing it, hence the two or three sections per sheet.

I was in the printing industry for many years and using "dinks" as they call them has been a secret of mine for years. On a continuous sheet fed press (web) the rolls of paper can only be used down to a certain distance from the center of the roll, because the paper coming off the roll after that point has too much curl in it to reliably go through the press without tearing (they call it breaking) from the tension it requires to pull it through the machine. At this point it's pulled off the machine and replaced with a new one taped to the old web. The dinks are then tossed into a can for sending back to the paper supplier for recycling. You can have a couple of these for free in most plants. Hundreds of yards of paper in rather large widths. Try to get white wove paper as it's more stable then the grades of newsprint. I have a roll at the end of my work bench, that I use to wrap things up, pulling off how ever many feet I need.. I have the same arrangement at the end of my drawing table for quick pull out of sketch paper.

For transferring the shapes to wood I use a tick stick or template. I will sometimes do additional loftings for the stem, stern post, deadwood assembly and any other area I need to define with some accuracy. Lofting is the only real accurate way of defining the shapes you'll need other then CNC produced forms.

I'd avoid the wax thing talked about as I'd be afraid it would affect a joint or spoil a good paint/adheasive bond.

[Mrleft8]

What I do is........ I use mylar. I trace the half pattern, I flip the mylar, I re-register it to the base line/center line, I trace the other half pattern, I glue the mylar to the wooden station mold with spray adhesive, I cut the mold out on the bandsaw with the mylar still attached to the station mold..... No problem. Quick, easy, and damn near fool proof.

[john welsford]

I'm currently doing the sawn frames for my 13.6m motor cruiser, there are 26 frames, all sided 45mm and moulded 90 with a silight increase where the chine and gunwale striningers go through. I lofted the boat 1/4 scale, and am picking up the frame offsets one at a time from the cross section plan. I built a table about 60mm high , 4metres x 3,6 metres which will just acommodate the midships section for width and the height of the stem.
I have scribed the centreline and waterline in permanently on the particle board table top, and draw out each frame port side, I then lay out 25mm flathead nails at about 20mm intervals, put the piece on top of the nails taking care not to move them and then stamp on the wood. With teh marks from the nails so close together I can bandsaw the futtock or frame piece directly from those markings.
Cut out one side and plane to closely fit the drawing, trace around for the other side and so on. The sawn frame sections are scarfed and glued, plus gussetts of 18mm plywood each side of the joins.
Its actually very nice work, satisfying stuff and I am getting through about two frames a weekend, number 9 is around 3.2 m wide by 2.6m high.

JohnW