unconventional layout

[TimH]

I found an Ingrid 38 not too far from here for a fair price, not a bargain mind you, but not outragous. She has a strange layout down below though. What does everybody think of having the galley amidships and the dinette at the base of the companionway?
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[Fooler]

True cruising layout- puts the "sea berths" in the area of least motion, closer to the cockpit for sail changes, look-out, etc. Puts the galley in an area of more motion, less ventilation, further from the crew in the cockpit. Probably better for sailing the world, not so good for local cruising with your friends. :D

[ 12-31-2003, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: True Grit ]

[Aramas]

I really don't like "dinettes" at all - imo they belong in diners, not yachts.

Generally having a galley forward is a relic from the days of having a paid hand to do the cooking, and no one gave a damn about the hired help's comfort or quality of life. However, some more recent boats have taken that approach - usually for the reason that it was the only way they could work it in with another feature, such as quarter berths that are partially under the cockpit.

I'm certainly not conservative by nature, even in the true sense of the word (ie not a right wing extremist, as it's recently been used). However, I like the galley by the hatch where you can quickly jump in and out while on watch, and with the hatch open all the steam and smoke is vented without sullying the saloon (pardner smile.gif ) It also keeps the galley slave in close communication with both the cockpit and the saloon (Would an all girl crew have a 'salon'?)

I suppose that since more than 90% of yachts are dock sailers that are only used a few times a year, and never in anger, dinettes and forward galleys would be terribly convenient - as would TV, phone, internet, shore water and power smile.gif

Another thing that amuses me is having the head right up in the bows. I've seen people pinned to the forward underdeck for several seconds before being pounded face first into the cabin sole, and I can't imagine the unsanitary mess that would be the result of trying to use a forward located head in rough conditions. Of course it works just fine on calm days and sheltered waters smile.gif

[ 12-30-2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Ian McColgin]

They might have done it to allow the dinette to double as a chart table.

Grana was laid out similarly, and that by a very experienced cruiser who lived aboard her for 20 years and sail her extensivly around Central America, west Africa and eaastern US.

The lay out also gives more seperation between the saloon, where one or more of the watch might be hanging to keep warm and dry, and the sleeping zone.

Locating the galley should be at the base of the companion is more likely to be really needed in the really smaller boats - 5 ton range - where the discomfort from motion becomes more acute. It's not so much that the motion is really that much better, but near the companion there's more air and it's a shorter run to the leeward rail.

[John E Hardiman]

Looks to me that whoever designed the layout expected the boat to do some long term single-handing offshore. The location of the pilot berth is the clue. When single-handing, you've got plenty of time to take the extra steps to the galley; indeed, if you're cooking your head is down anyway, and besides cooking is not that large a time block in the overall scheme of things. Sleeping is. A nice berth next to the companion for instant access to deck. A chart table to port, where a right handed person would want it. A thermos of tea with some biscits in the cookpit and you're all set! smile.gif

[rbgarr]

The Pardey's galley is forward. Good enough for me. I'd round off that sharp corner of the bulkhead just aft of the sink. That could punch you right up underneath the ribs unexpectedly.

[Frank E. Price]

My favorite layout is the one in Chapelle's Glad Tidings (Pinky No. 2) and in Pinky No. 1; but I would eliminate the head compartment entirely (it's next to the companionway), stow a portapotti in the forepeak for company, and use the "seat of ease" whenever possible and a bucket the rest of the time. The forepeak is a big compartment in these boats, and it may actually be possible in Pinky No. 1 to use the portapotti in the forepeak. The space saved by eliminating the head compartment would be used to expand the chart table and galley.

All fantasy of course.

Frank

[N. Scheuer]

Unless she has a seperate navigation station, that dinette could be mighty handy for "double duty" as a chart table.

Moby Nick

[Aramas]

The Pardey's boats had quarter berths that were partly under the cockpit, so the galley was ahead of them. Taliesin had the same layout as Serafynn, just stretched - and with an enclosed head (and an inboard diesel now apparently). If the saloon table in Serafynn was in position, it would have been very awkward to get from the galley to the cockpit or the converse. One should also bear in mind that the Pardeys are quite traditional, and it was always Lynn that did the cooking - all several feet of her smile.gif She didn't even learn to sail Serafynn alone until they'd been living aboard for seven years and had sailed from California to England.

Designing a layout for single handing is fair enough, but it would be a lonely old bugger that designed it for single living in port as well.
I remember an interview with an old fellow that was circumnavigating in a Folkboat - he'd altered the interior to include a full size chart table and used the bucket and chucket method. When the (female) jounalist asked him why he sailed alone he replied "Not many women are willing to live like this." The journalist (a keen sailor) confirmed that she certainly wouldn't.

When 'partying' on board, even larger boats can be quite crowded. When there's a group in the cockpit and another in the saloon, the galley and head should be accessable with the minimum of fuss - which usually means between the two. While some might argue that 'old folks' don't consider such things important, my experience is the opposite - people become more social in later life, particularly cruising folk.

Personally I'm not even vaguely interested in boats over thirty feet, so my opinions are biased towards layouts that work well for couples and socialising in small boats. It still surprises me how many people don't consider a woman's needs to be an important design consideration. I suppose that for some guys their boat is what they use to get away from their wives smile.gif In the abstract for my unfinished final year design project (a 25m charter yacht)I noted that the accommodation was designed to be 'as simple as possible without alienating the decision-making gender'. My supervisor (a practicing NA of 20 odd years) penned in the margin "You have achieved enlightenment".

[John E Hardiman]

Originally posted by Aramas:
, so my opinions are biased towards layouts that work well for couples and socialising in small boats. It still surprises me how many people don't consider a woman's needs to be an important design consideration.Nope!...Not going to say it!.....No matter how good a straight line we just got fed!.... :D

[Meerkat]

Unless they changed something after the fact (an article with 3-D drawings of her interior that appeared in Cruising World or Sail years ago), Taliesin does not have an enclosed head compartment - unless you consider a purpose-built locker for the bucket an "enclosed" head ;) . She does have a bathtub though - where an engine would usually live.

[TimH]

Almost looks like a portlight in the hull right below the center of the dingy. Never saw an Ingrid with that either. This boat has some interesting features.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by TimH:
Almost looks like a portlight in the hull right below the center of the dingy. Never saw an Ingrid with that either. This boat has some interesting features.Well a deadlight anyway - too close to the water for a portlight ;)

I was on a Swan ?44? once in SF bay (belonged to Latitude 38 (magazine) folks). It had lexan deadlights in the hull. I was down below once and it was quite interesting to see nothing but water out them - they where submerged when the boat was heeled! :eek: :cool:

[ 12-31-2003, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Aramas]

Unless they changed something after the fact (an article with 3-D drawings of her interior that appeared in Cruising World or Sail years ago), Taliesin does not have an enclosed head compartment - unless you consider a purpose-built locker for the bucket an "enclosed" head . She does have a bathtub though - where an engine would usually live. The only drawings of Taliesin I have are the ones that accompany the design notes in Danny Greene's "Cruising Sailboat Kinetics". Photos of Taliesin under construction are used throughout the book, but the drawing might be of Lyle Hess's standard Falmoth Cutter - although I was under the impression that it was designed specifically for them.

The drawings show quarter berths on either side with settes inboard of them, just like in Serafynn. Forward of that is a U shaped galley to starboard and a chart table and an enclosed pump out head with washbasin to port. Forward of those is another 2 berths. It also shows an engine under the companionway, and in recent years I heard that the Pardeys have since fitted one in Taliesin.