B&B Princess Sharpie 22

[MICHAEL S]

It all seems to be coming together. First, purchase a carport tent (11'x27'), install a concrete slab this spring and I will have my new boatbuilding shop and can start building my new boat.

I have about decided on the Princess Sharpie 22 for several reasons. 1. Ease of building - stitch & glue with full size layouts. 2. Low cost - I am hoping under $10,000 US including trailer (if anyone thinks this is unrealistic please let me know). 3.Lightweight for trailering - I am in Colorado after all. 4. Easy to sail - the B&B article about the Cat Ketch rigging makes it seem ideal for a newbie.

My dream is to sail along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico from Texas to the Yucatan (Isla Holbox). I have a long journey ahead of me and I don't mean the mileage. First I must learn to sail. I must learn to navigate (or at least learn how to operate a GPS chart device). And about two dozen other things before I will be ready for my adventure. Don't worry I will take it slow and make sure I am competent before venturing out.

I know, look at Iain Oughtred's designs. I was looking at the Duck Flat Wooden Boat site where they sell Iain's design book and read an article indicating a builders cost for the Grey Seal was $35,000 dollars. I can't afford it. And the weight is perhaps too much for my Toyota Tacoma to handle.

What do you think? Is the B&B Sharpie a good design for me?

[imported_Dutch]

id take a closer look at the 26 footer if i was you. for not a whole lot more wieght, work or money, the accomodations will be much better for your criussing. are the plans available in plywood over frames or just for stictch and glue? i dont know your experience level but you may actually find the plank on frame style of building easier than the stich method if you havent done a stitch boat before

[capt jake]

First I must learn to sail. They used to offer sailing lessons at Boulder Resevoir. Granted, they are small boats, but it will get you started. That is where I got the initial bug many years ago when I lived in Boulder. I then did a bit of sailing in the gulf of Baja.

Interesting to see another Coloradan being bit by the boating bug. smile.gif smile.gif The internet is a wonderful in this way. smile.gif

I also have the plans for the 22' Princess Sharpie, though I will have to wait a while before I build her. For that matter I would let the plans go for a reasonable offer and transfer ownership through Graham. E-mail me if interested.

[ 12-24-2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: capt jake ]

[MICHAEL S]

I built a Shellback Dinghy last winter (plywood lapstrake). So I have done some sailing and can make a small boat go where I want it to (mostly) but sailing in open water and learning to beach or anchor or reef a larger boat are the type of things I must master. I was looking at the 26 footer but the weight is almost double(?) the 22 footer and I do need to trailer it.

Captn. Jake, I may take you up on that once I finally decide - thanx

[MICHAEL S]

Capt. Jake, I see you are currently living in Puget Sound, is that due to being bitten yourself? I did go sail a sunfish a couple of times on the Boulder Res. when I was a boy. We didn’t get any lessons, they just gave us a boat and off we went. As I recall the wind kicked up and we moored to a raft until we could get a tow back in. I had to pay for an extra ½ hour and couldn’t afford lunch.

So far I haven’t run into any other Colorado boat builders.

[capt jake]

Capt. Jake, I see you are currently living in Puget Sound, is that due to being bitten yourself? Nope, just one of lifes relocations. Never really gave boats much thought (at least building one) until I moved here.

[JimD]

Actually, Michael, none of your reasons for choosing this design are very good ones because the same reasons apply to probably dozens of other designs that might suit you better. There are many, many plywood designs that are both easy to build and easy to sail so I hope you take your time in making your final decision. As for learning to sail I would say that as a relative newbie myself that it takes only a couple hours to learn to sail, but it may take a lifetime to learn to sail well. In fact many people sail all their lives and never do it very well :D

[bainbridgeisland]

.. In fact many people sail all their lives and never do it very well :D [/QB]Well Said!

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

My dream is to sail along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico from Texas to the Yucatan (Isla Holbox). I have a long journey ahead of me and I don't mean the mileage. First I must learn to sail. I must learn to navigate (or at least learn how to operate a GPS chart device). And about two dozen other things before I will be ready for my adventure. Good news, no navigation training is necessary for your trip. Just keep the land on your right and you'll make it! :D

[ 12-28-2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Captain Pre-Capsize ]

[Venchka]

You are overlooking the best half of the Gulf for a small trailer sailer. Key West to Bay St. Louis is better suited to a small boat. South of Brownsville you may need a larger boat.

Don't be afraid of sloops. They are quite easy to sail as long as the jibs don't get huge. Look at the Hartley TS-18. The cabin arrangement is quite good and the materials required are reasonable. The size and weight are similar to the Princess 22. The plans are cheap-$50, buy them for a very detailed look at what is required to build the boat.

The sails for the Princess will run about $1,500. The trailer will be $1,000, maybe more in your area. Cruising gear, safety gear, electrical system, ground tackle, etc. can run $1,000 easily. Can you build the boat for $6,500?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Mike Vogdes]

Michael,
Your dream sounds like a good one, I hope it pans out for you. Graham designs some nice boats and that boat looks like a good choice for what you intend to do. I built his Catspaw a few years back and I'm very happy with it.

Wayne's figures look pretty good, but I sure would like to have maybe 8,000 in the buget for the boat itself.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by MICHAEL S:
It all seems to be coming together. First, purchase a carport tent (11'x27'), install a concrete slab this spring and I will have my new boatbuilding shop and can start building my new boat.
I think, and folks who know will confirm, that you want a wood over dirt floor for boatbuilding. If possible. Seems a lot cheaper and easier than pouring a slab to your cold climate standards.

The type of plywood you use can vary in weight by as much as 50%. In a nutshell, in ascending order: okoume, meranti, douglas fir, sapele.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 01-02-2005, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[MICHAEL S]

I have joined the B&B forum and spoken to Graham (the Princess designer) and plan a budget of 5k to 8k (probably closer to the 8k figure due to lack of materials and used boat equipment in my area). He also indicated that the Princess 22 should be well suited to my sailing plans. I have seen many boat designs suggested here but have decided on the PS22 partly because of the support I will receive from Graham and the B&B forum. I’m sure I will also be asking plenty of questions in this forum.

Venchka, The suggestion of a wood floor may be a good idea. Since I will be waiting till Spring thaw before installing a slab the weather conditions don’t really matter, but a wood floor would certainly be friendlier to the boat building process. Certainly attaching the forms, sawhorses, etc would be easier. I had also planned to use the slab as a future parking spot. I will do some pricing and think about it.

[Scott Dunsworth]

Congratulations on a good choice Michael. I looked over the first Princess 22 that was built. She was a real beauty. I visted Graham in july of 2003 with the intentions of buying the 22 plans, but decided on his Belhaven for various reasons. I'll tell you my heart is still with the Princess design. I don't think you'll ever be sorry for your choice. Graham and Carla are Very helpful and some really nice down to earth people. Your right about the folks on the B&B fourm also they do not come any more helpfull, or nicer.
If the Princess is no harder to build than the Belhaven you won't have any trouble.
I am getting ready to deck and build the cabin on mine. It is so exciting to watch a boat like this to come alive. Good luck.
Scott

[RodB]

If considering a well thought out "modern day" design you can hardly do better than the Princess sharpies or the Norwalk Island Sharpies or for that matter Carl Stambaugh's designs.. These boats offer easy construction and are very reasonable in cost. I believe Mr Kirby told me that a NIS 29 was built for $15,000, so the lesser sizes would be real reasonable.

There are many sharpies to consider but the Princess designs are later designs with real thought put into every facet...getting as much in a boat that one can for the space and money invested. Also Graham is a great guy and will offer you great support ...and you cannot underestimate the value of that support.

I have just about finished my first boat, a 20 foot skiff, which I could not have done without plenty of support from the designer/boat builder.

Also there are many designs to consider but mainly the aesthetics would be the difference or perhaps you would not have an outboard motor well. If you are happy with the aesthetics and the functionality of this design then go for it. Also a few of these have been built and there are good pix available, I think a boatbuilder on the coast of Texas has built two of these. You could probably get a look at one if you wanted to go to the trouble which is highly recommended if possible.

BTW, I once crewed on a 65 foot cruiser where we crossed the Gulf of Mexico from Galveston to Cancun... rounding the Yucatan Peninsula. We stopped overnight close to the tip, Isla Con Toy....

The Cancun/Cozumel area is nice and the Belize area further south offers some fantastic fishing.
RB

[ 01-05-2005, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[JimD]

Nice boat. I didn't realize it had a V bottom. Very good idea

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p1f100cf0cf39329bc2438cdecbdd94c7/f59b57db.jpg

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by MICHAEL S:
So far I haven't run into any other Colorado boat builders.Suggest you visit http://4dw.net/cosailor/
Ft. Collins is only a couple hours away.

Chris Stewart
(I grew up in Longmont, CO and also sailed on Boulder Reservoir.)

[Paul Pless]

but a wood floor would certainly be friendlier to the boat building process friendlier on the feet, knees, hips and back too.

[RodB]

I forgot I have a CD with pix of the Princess 22...here are some....
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p3b25b41a787adb5e406998ccb82526ab/f594f4c7.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pae8dd3220a6f1891c41f848b933a9c1b/f594f4db.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pf96c38419914781b1619298ae656ff5d/f594f4cd.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p7ba4f5e2fedae2e229e0ede1a6d1b205/f594f4d9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p19c9a264f2d52a57e395e484e9bfc6b6/f594f4dd.jpg

RB

[Dave Hadfield]

I like the boat, too.

But if you arrive at a typical municipal boat ramp, with no crane, can you still erect those masts?

Do you make some sort of gin-pole arrangement?

[Tom Lathrop]

Dave,

Take a closer look at the last photo of Princess on the trailer. The foremast has just been raised and the crew is locking it in position.

Both masts are set in tabernacles. The foremast drops aft and the mizzen drops forward. Both are slightly offset so they rest alongside each other. Nothing to it. Like everything else in B&B's boats, all of these features are the result of long experience with actually building and sailing boats, inovative thinking and trial and error.

[ 01-07-2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[Old Salt]

Not only do the masts step easily and quickly, note that they are also un-stayed. I dont think you will find another boat of this size that is quicker to rig.

[MICHAEL S]

Thanks for all the supporting comments. And the pictures. I sure wish I had a shop like that to build her in.

As to where I will sail her. Who knows? My only real plan is to sail on an ocean. Preferably in a warm climate. And to do it before I reach fifty. That gives me three years and six months to build the boat, become competent at sailing on lakes and protected waters, and learn anything else I need to know. No worries. It also should be enough time to decide where to go. Any and all suggestions will certainly be considered.

It's great to here from you all, Michael

P.S. I visited Mexico twice this year and truly enjoyed it so I was thinking Yucatan but after studying the maps perhaps east to Florida then southeast to Bahama then west to Cuba and then on to the Yucatan? Ok, so now I'm getting carried away.....

[Dave Hadfield]

Ahhh.... I see. I should have looked at the website before I posted.

There's sure a lot to be said for a boat you can park at home, then launch in far-away places.

[JimD]

There does seem to be a fair amount of marketing yakity-yak at the web site, such as this description of the cat-ketch rig:

Your days of yelling, "prepare to tack", "tacking" - "let it go", and "pull it in" are over. When you want to tack, you simply put the helm over and off you go on your new course. The sails will tack themselves. This may be a little un-nerving at first. If you have been sailing only sloops or ketches with headsails up until now, you will feel like you ought to be doing something. We've noticed however, that it takes the average sailor only about 3 tacks to get used to this laid back approach. By the 5th tack they are enamored and begin to aimlessly tack back and forth with a great big grin on their faces. The crew is equally happy, because they haven't moved a muscle or been yelled at during the whole procedure...

Come on, guys, coming about with a sloop or other rig isn't so nightmarish as all that.

[ 01-08-2005, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Tom Lathrop]

Well Jim,

That paragraph was written by people steeped in sailing sloops for many years and far places.

I started in sloops and still sail one. I also agree completely with the statements on the sprit boomed, cat-ketch, rig. Call it yakety yak if you want, the people who have tried it all seem to love it, including me.

Laid back? You bet. What's wrong with that?

Oh yes, to own up to my bias :D , I admit to contributing to the article on the advantages of the cat-ketch rig after building and sailing one.

[JimD]

Oh yes, to own up to my bias , I admit to contributing to the article on the advantages of the cat-ketch rig after building and sailing one. Ah Hah!!! :D

[Tom Lathrop]

Ah ha! :D

Is it going to be that if somebody actually knows something about a subject, their opinion is suspect.
:confused:

[JimD]

I can see why the original poster of the thread has chosen this boat. She's a beauty. I didn't mean to make anybody cry.

[Jack C]

All of the advice has been good. My only input is the cost. $10K seems a little on the light end. I built a NIS18 and it cost me close to $12K. And the comment about the NIS29 for $15K, I believe that's way, way too low (even if Kirby said it, which he might have back in 1988). Maybe if you use ACX ply, porch paint, and have bamboo masts you could build it for that.

My opinion is, don't skimp on the materials. Use good quality marine ply, epoxy and appropriate weight fiberglass, etc. If you don't, you'll be spending close to 1000 man hours building something that will last only a short time. It's not worth it in my estimation. Build the boat to last 50 years or until you're dead, whichever is shorter. smile.gif

Jack

[qm]

Hi all! A sharpie is what you what because it can be easily beached. A sharpie is a flat bottomed,rowboat-like,crossplanked hull. Have two masts or two steps for masts so you can have greater flexibility. On a Sharpie one mast step is up in the eyes and the other is abaft the trunk. Sharpies do not have cabins, but you build it such that you can put up a tent-like shelter. Now there you go! Happy piloting along the coast,hope you speak Spanish, qm

[brian.cunningham]

:cool: little boat

[Mike Vogdes]

Another post over a year old... Ever wonder what happens to these folks that want to build a boat, then never heard from again?

[JimD]

Originally posted by Mike Vogdes:
Another post over a year old... Ever wonder what happens to these folks that want to build a boat, then never heard from again?They came to their senses :D

[Mike Vogdes]

:D

[brian.cunningham]

"Honey, can I build a boat?" :D

Either that or they got scared off by the bilge rats. :eek: