Pirogues (not pierogies)

[Bear's Oil]

SWMBO says I have to get rid of the tin canoe that sits beside the garage if I'm going to build boats. However I NEED a "puddle jumper" that I can store overhead and that will allow me to access some favorite fishing holes. It will also act as
a "warm-up" as I continue to accumulate stuff for the scow.
Does anyone know of any solid chine, pirogue plans? I think I have tracked down about all the stich and glue varieties.

[Ken Hall]

Larry, I don't have an issue with me at the office, but I'm pretty sure one of the advertisers selling a kit in the back of WB was offering a screw-and-glue kit. I was thinking of getting one (and maybe eventually two) myself.

Best of luck,
Ken

[Wayne Jeffers]

Larry,

It shouldn't be that difficult to convert a stitch-and-glue piroque design to a chined design, especially if you're willing to put the chines on the outside.

Cut the sides per the pattern, fasten rectangular chines (maybe 3/4 X 1 1/2 inch) to the outside of the sides, fasten sides and chine sets to the stem, frame, and sternpost. On the outside, rectangular frames will then stand proud of the bottom and you can hand-plane the proper angle to accept the bottom using the empirical method.

Remember to add the extra width of the chines on both sides when you cut out the bottom. Fasten the bottom. Finish the rest of the boat more or less to the plan.

Putting the chines inside is only a little harder.

Wayne

[WeeHooker]

Larry, try : http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/default.htm

[motoretro]

Contact Jordan Wood Boats at http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/
, his Swamp Rat is the nicest Pirogue (Pea-row)I've seen and is solid chined.
Moto

[Ken Hall]

Next question, on the subject of pirogues:

How are their handling characteristics, compared to canoes & kayaks? I just got back from a week on the Outer Banks, during which my wife and I took a kayak trip from the Dare County boat ramp (Kitty Hawk) through part of the Maritime Forest (brackish marsh) and the Currituck Sound.

It was a wonderful two hours--saw an osprey, some river otters, Eastern brown snake, and a water moccasin we gave a wide berth as it swam through our line of boats--plus beautiful shore vistas and a nice bit of relaxing exercise.

It also seemed to me that the (fiberglass tandem) kayak was a more stable platform than the canoes I've paddled. SWMBO also liked it once she realized it wasn't conspiring to dump her into the Sound.

Because I'm a confirmed wood boat crank, and because a pirogue is a more accessible to my skills than a kayak would be (plus I like the way they look), I'm asking anyone who knows:

1. Would a pirogue be appropriate for the waters of the Sound and its tributaries, inlets, gunkholes, etc. (we're planning to retire to the Banks or at least the mainland Sound, if we can't move there sooner)? I'm guessing yes--the waters are pretty calm even in a fairly stiff breeze--but I'm open to opinions.

2. How does the stability of a pirogue compare to that of a canoe or kayak of comparable dimensions?

By the way, motoretro, that Swamp Rat sure is a pretty one. Thanks for the link.

And thanks in advance to anyone who helps,
Ken

[dadadata]

Jim Michalak's git a nail & glue pirogue: two in fact.

http://www.apci.net/~michalak/

[ishmael]

Okay, what is the diff. between a pirogue and a bateau? Gardner's dory book has some interesting bateau in it.

[Todd Bradshaw]

This would seem like a good one to mock-up with model-makers plywood or cardboard. Fix a pot of Gumbo, put on a Doug Kershaw album and start designing if you can't find a good plan.

If it helps at all, for "normal", tandem canoes, we used to figure that a beam of about 32" at the 4" waterline was about the minumum needed for reasonable stability with typical canoe-style seating (about 10" above the floor). With a flat bottom and hard chines, you might be able to go a bit narrower because of it's high initial stability, but I wouldn't go too far.

Tandem kayaks these days get some of their stability and seaworthiness from hull length (most of the good ones are 20' or longer) but it seems that at about 29"-30" beam you get a pretty docile two-person boat for low, kayak-style seating. If the boat was shorter than about 18', I might go a bit wider, both for stability and for buoyancy and lift in waves.

I don't know how authentic it would be, but the more flare you can build into the sides (especially at the ends) the better the boat will take waves and the more capacity it will have. Flare and removal of excess rocker (I can't imagine you would want more than a couple inches of rocker max) require quite a bit of hog (upward curvature in the middle) cut into the bottom edge of the side panels and at a certain point, start to waste wood. That's one good reason to mock it up as a model to see what you're in for in terms of materials needed, panel shapes, scarphing, etc.

Ironmule's idea of test paddling before mounting the seats is also a good one, both for stability and determining proper fore-and-aft trim with the intended parties on board. Someplace I have a picture of a friend paddling a solo canoe while sitting on a 3-legged stool which we used to help figure out where and how high to mount the seat.



[This message has been edited by Todd Bradshaw (edited 08-15-2001).]

[johnh94927]

The best pierogies come from Russia and require lots of sour cream and onions. Deep-fry 'em in yak lard - mm-mmm good!

[Nora Lee]

NYC Deli's don't do a bad job on um either.!

Heck if you put enough sour cream on a piroque you could probably eat it! Lots of roughage good for the diet!

Nora