Lapstrake. . . just for looks?

[Tom Irvine]

In researching different designs and construction methods for my sailboat (see "sailboat plans" thread), I've kinda narrowed it down to about four models: The Roberts 22 or 25, The Devlin, "Arctic Tern," Welsford's "Penguin," and Oughtred's "Grey Seal."

The Penguin and Grey Seal are both lapstrake construction and, though they are both pretty, I've been told that this method has no place on a boat that will be sailed off shore - it's not tough enough. While I'm inclined to believe this, I'd like to hear further comments from anyone with experience.

What about Stitch and Glue, by the way? Some seem to doubt the integrity of the S&G hull for rough conditions. Is this warranted?

Tom :cool:

[Donn]

Don't know if it applies to sailboats, but I've seen many lapstrake powerboats waaay offshore.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Lapstrake planking didn't stop the vikings. And the glued lap on Grey Seal, with her heavy framing too, will make her an incredibly stong boat. I'd think the reason these boats shouldn't go offshore is their relatively short length, not their style of hull construction. I like Penguin, too, but I've fallen in love with Oughtred's Eun Mara so that's what I'm building.

Steven

[ishmael]

I've been told that this method has no place on a boat that will be sailed off shore - it's not tough enough Told by whom? I'd be reluctant to take Grey Seal off shore, but not because of the contruction technique. However, small boats have made long passages. I think Grey Seal would be about as good a small boat for such ventures as most.

[Tom Irvine]

A guy who built his own and sails it in L. Superior. He favored cold molding, but I suspect the proponents of any construction techniqe will extol its virtues - even claiming it to be the strongest.

I'd like to do most of my cruising in the Great Lakes, but would like to build a boat that could sail anywhere my skill could take it - even the oceans.

S&G definitely seems to be the simplest construction. Lapstrake is very beautiful, but I like the idea of having the whole hull reenforced by fiberglass. Cold molding looks like fun and allows for round bilges, but it also looks time consuming. My inspiration is the 18' Roberts built by Claude Desjardins named "Pere Peinard." I believe his is cold molded and he has sailed it around the world.

I have two books on the way from Amazon. One about lapstrake constuction and Devlin's S&G book. Devlin seems to have had success with this simple technique (I've made great kayaks with it) even on large boats.

[Tom Irvine]

I'm sure lapstrake was good enough for the Vikings, but if they'd had modern techniques like cold molding available, would they have chosen them? Maybe they'd even like fiberglass sheathing on their boats ;)

I'd just like to know more.

[Eric Sea Frog]

Clinker is lighter, not necessarily weaker, depending on the quality of construction (including the stations that are special on clinkers-lapstrakes).
It's about as strong as a two-layer hull.
The heavier a boat, the weaker -and the more momentum when it bangs.
The waterflowing of lapstrake hulls is questionable if max speed is the purpose.

[htom]

You can build horrible boats with any technique, and you can build great ones, too.

If you like the look of lapstrake, don't let other's tastes* make your choices. If you don't like it, then you should probably choose differently.

*bad tastes, those would be, imao.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

You can make lapstrake (or any other building method) as strong and heavy or light and weak as you want to. If you are worried about Grey Seal being strong enough (pretty silly actually) you could just boost the scantlings to make her as strong as you want. Instead of 1/2" ply and lots of laminated frames you could use 5/8" or even 3/4" and even bigger laminated frames. If you are building a wooden boat and relying on fiberglass sheathing for strength you could just skip the wood and get a fiberglass boat! Or now that I think of it maybe you are a perfect match for a steel hulled boat. :D

Tell us more about where you want to take your 20' - 25' boat and we can talk more about strength.

Steven

[Tom Irvine]

I'd mostly like to cruise the Great Lakes including Superior. But I'd also like to be able to sail the length of the Eastern Seaboard.

[Wild Dingo]

Opinions is just that opinions...{mine included}... I had a close mate who has just completed his second boat of over 40ft tell me to build in steel anything else is next to useless... he wouldnt listen to any discussion on timber boats they sink says he... {and steel ones dont says I?}... hes built two steel boats.

Now Grey Seal is sweet and no doubt would be able to go offshore... depends on many factors if it makes it back or not and not necessarily the method of construction either... you could as Ive done contact Iain himself and ask him what he as the designer felt would be needed to bulk her up for some serious offshore work... and no doubt he will tell you his views and thoughts as the designer {Im not enquiring about this by the way but rather his view on using solid timber rather than ply}

Tossing a method of construction over simply due to the comments of a fella you know is rather simplistic dont you think? As Donn said theres many a lapstrake power boat out there in the deep blue... with no problems

Theres a couple of sites where people have or are building Grey Seal... if I had time Id look for them and post them but its not an option just now if no ones done it in a fw hours when I get back I'll hunt them up

Best with it anyway mate

[Venchka]

There's lapstrake and then there's lapstrake.

Folkboats and the Vikings way back when used timber planks and fasteners and lots of frames to make very substabtial craft. That's lapstrake or clinker from way way back.

Penguin & Grey Seal are glued lap plywood clinker boats, or whatever Iain Oughtred's book is titled. Horse of a slightly different color than riveted planks and steam bent frame clinker construction. Plenty strong indeed. Penguin's laps are backed up by stringers fore and aft backed up by very strong bulkheads. John Welsford offers an offshore cockpit and counstruction options. John's boats are plenty strong. His Navigator's (open, 14' versions of Penguin) sail all over the South Pacific. Again, John is very accessible via e-mail. Ask him what he thinks. Search the "MY Wooden Boat" for "Saturday Morning"-a Grey Seal. I think that boat is based on or near the Great Lakes. Ask the owner what he thinks.

If you build a Grey Seal, have a 3/4 ton diesel pick-up handy for towing duties.

[Aramas]

Plywood lapstrake is strong, light, goes together quickly and is essentially self fairing - provided you shape the strakes fair.
The only thing I don't like about it is its poor abrasion resistance. Once the epoxy coating is breached it can cause problems. That can be countered by glassing the outside, but that can create a fairing nightmare.
There were a heap of mahogany ply folkboats built here in the 50's, with the laps glued up with resorcinol and copper riveted through. They're still going strong after half a century. I've seen a few rebuilt and generally the hull was sound - any problems were around the deck and cockpit.
As for ply lapstrake being fit to go offshore - someone's yanking your chain. It's a good a building method as any. Whether the design is up to it or not is another question entirely, and the only person that can answer it is the designer.

[Tom Irvine]

Thanks for the replies. I love the discussion.

I just got Devlin's S&G book and Oughtred's Clinker manual and am poised to begin devouring them both. I started with Devlin and am finding the simplicity of S&G very alluring. Having made canoes and kayaks using either cedar strip and S&G, I have a lot of confidence in the monocoque concept. I don't necessarily think of myself as *depending* on glass for strength - in my mind, the glass and wood clearly work together for strength. No steel hulls for me, though - I'm a woodworker - besides, I don't know how to weld.

The relative lack of abrasion resistance on lapstrake boats has crossed my mind, but it may not be as much of an issue with larger sailboats that don't typically get beached as smaller paddle craft do. I wasn't going to trailer this boat much - I'd keep it moored in a nearby harbor on L. Ontario.

As of yet I have ruled nothing out. Right now I'm relishing the process of learning. It has occured to me, however that I'll probably have to make more than one boat ;)

I hope this thread isn't over yet. . .

Tom

[Venchka]

While you are book buying and reading, get a copy of John Welsford's boatbuilding book. John goes to great lengths to design his boats and building methods with the lone builder in mind.

J.W. is working on a slightly larger boat, 26' I think, which grew out of his 20' Whaler design. Plans should be available before the end of the year.

One more fly in the ointment: Iain Oughtred's Eun Mara has been stretched to 22' by a couple in Australia.

Are you really sure that you want a Bermudan sloop rig for cruising? Iain Oughtred goes to great lengths in his Catalog to list the benefits of the canoe yawl design and sail plan of Eun Mara. He says, "In a strong breeze she will balance well and sail capably to windward with only jib and mizzen..." John Welsford says pretty much the same thing about his yawls from 12' to 22'.

What's wrong with beaching, or I suppose grounding at low tide, in boats this size? Penguin's flat bottom ought to take the ground upright, assuming the rudder can handle grounding. Xynole would protect the flat bottom and first planks nicely. There's a builder appyling cloth to each strake of an Eun Mara. It can be done. Fiberglass isn't the only sheathing material.

Every foot of draft limits your cruising area. I suppose I feel that way living on the Gulf of Mexico where depths and tide ranges are measured in inches. There are many many square miles of wonderful places to cruise that you can't get to if the boat draws more than 24".

Falling off of my soap box and landing in a bayou filled with duck weed in the Swamp...

[SailBoatDude]

All building methods/techniques can be designed to endure the difficulties of off shore work. Steel, aluminum, ferro cement, 'glass and wooden designs can go off shore, if the design has the meat for the tasks asked of them.

Lap construction has gained recent favor because of the goo's available now. When good lumber and construction methods where needed with more traditional lap designs, now ply and good goop's can have a go at the wet. All materials and construction techniques have their good points and bad. Relying on a man's word without the required design documentation or experience need for such a broad judgment (on his part), seems rather foolish.

Find a design you like, build to the plans and be sure you ask of the design what was intended of her. Good seamanship will bring you through, if you bit off more then you can chew, even a design not off shore capable will, if handled correctly, bring you home. The Spray is a fine example of just this, though handled by a very experienced and capable skipper, who modified her for the tasked he'd be asking.

Lapped hulls are the prettiest of them all, making cute sounds and all, underway. Tell your lake sailor buddy to jump in it and go have at it man . . .

Do you really think the folks at WB would have used taped seam sections for their logo on their shirts if it was that pretty?

[Venchka]

Originally posted by SailBoatDude:
...Do you really think the folks at WB would have used taped seam sections for their logo on their shirts if it was that pretty?On the mark!

Let us not forget to pay our respects to Alfred Johnson and Centennial who made the first solo crossing of the North Atlantic in 1876. And the Andrews brothers who repeated the crossing two years later. In flat bottomed, hard chined, lapstrake built dories.

[ 09-08-2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Bruce Hooke]

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the strength of the hull relative to offshore seaworthiness. I'd venture a guess that much more stress is placed on most hulls by things like hauling the boat out of the water, not to mention accidental or intentional groundings, than by "normal" offshore conditions (note: I do not consider the Southern Oceans (e.g., Cape Horn) and similar areas to be "normal" offshore conditions). Offshore seaworthiness is dependant on a host of factors related to the design and construction of a boat, and I think hull strength would be fairly far down the list. I am not familiar with all of these designs but the ones I am familiar with do not strike me as offshore yachts.

On the other hand, sailing down the eastern seaboard is not offshore sailing for most people. I assume you are talking about going down the ICW, not making a straight shot down outside Cape Hatteras. The latter is definitely offshore. However, I knew someone who made the ICW trip from the Chesapeake to Florida in a wood Lightning, which is CERTAINLY not an offshore sailboat! :D I wouldn't be at all surprised if the roughest conditions you encountered were on the Great Lakes.

[paladin]

Well...darn, Bruce....
I have traversed the Southern Ocean/ Cape Horn three times...twice in plywood boats, 27 and 31 feet and once inna 38 foot plywood boat...and everytime it wuz flatter than lake superior....

[Alan D. Hyde]

On lapstrake boats, each lap acts as a miniature spray rail. Each lap also resists rolling or plunging motions of the boat, as well as possibly providing an air cushion under each, which may allow for less wetted surface and more speed even for a fairly beamy hull.

See the thread on that lovely boat (Elly?) that was featured on the WB cover not all that long ago.

There's way more to good lapstrake construction than just looks. There's a great marriage of form and function...

Alan

[ 09-09-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Noah]

I love my lapstrake Folkboat, Lyman, and Whitehall. All are tremendous boats that are strong, stiff, light, and move through the water wonderfully.

People have taken Folkboats around the world with no problems, and our Lyman still doesn't leak a drop after almost 50 years of high-speed fun.

I will say that my Folkboat is loud to sleep in at night. As the boat comes up and down in the waves it makes quite a bit of noise. Some like it, some don't.

Noah

[Tom Irvine]

Wayne, My main reason for choosing a Bermuda rig is simplicity and economy. While I haven't priced them, I imagine masts and booms are rather pricey. Still, your words have hit their mark - windward performance can make a big difference. Do you sail a yawl?

As for beaching, I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with it and I hope no Vikings have been offended, but in some of my favorite places, the word "beach" does not mean "sand" or even "muck" it means "granite" in slab, shoal or cobble form. I can do one armed curls with my 45# kayaks so taking them into the shop for an annual touch up is a minor inconvenience. A 22' sailboat is another story. I don't intend to beach it at all.

I've started Oughtred's book and he seems to believe the Grey Seal to be a capable offshore cruiser. Now I'm looking more closely at both the Grey Seal and the Penquin. I sense there are a lot of lapstrake advocates here (I can hear the collective sigh of relief) smile.gif

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence that some of you have posted - even around The Cape - I am impressed. Though I'd probably take the Panama Canal mayself, it's good to hear stories of performance under rigorous circumstances.
You are right about the Great Lakes though Bruce - especially superior.

[Aramas]

Around parts of the north coast of Australia, 'beach' means anywhere closer than 15 miles from shore when the tide is out smile.gif
It's a riot running around with no visible water or shoreline.

[bukuboy]

Tom, When it's all said and done go build in mild steel and you'll never have to say "what if" in the middle of the Atlantic and a gale is approaching quickly. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing and mild steel provides you with it. Take a look at Robert's Tom Thumb--all the boat you'll ever need--and put a junk rig on her!

[Aramas]

eeeeeeeeeewwwww! Steel!

[Wild Dingo]

steel??? egad have ye not heard of the Titanic?!! :eek: ...okay steel is a good medium as any and has its place... but to say you will never have to say "what if?" ...you gotta be kidding!! :rolleyes:

Aramas! :D :D :D ROFLMAO!!

[Keith Wilson]

The Titanic was riveted iron, not steel. ;)

[Russell Sova]

Danish fisherman used lapstrake almost exclusively in the North Sea and around Denmark for centuries.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Tom Irvine:
...Do you sail a yawl?If the good Lord's willing and the paint is dry, I should be sailing a Caledonia yawl this time next month.

As for economy, will it really matter if you are up to your butt in alligators and you only have one tall mast and two sails to use? Build your own spars. Practice on the wee mizzen spars first. The main won't seem difficult at all. Think about the shorter spars of the gaff yawl rig when the whole shebang is on the trailer. Smaller bits to handle out of the water. Think about a nice big jib set on the bowsprit with a light staysail underneath in light air, and a small heavy jib tacked to the stemhead when the going gets rough. Think about the reduced windage and weight aloft when the main is furled and secured. Think about the mizzen keeping the boat pointed into the wind at anchor. It's all about options. In my mind more options are better.

A 22' sailboat is another story. I don't intend to beach it at all.When the snow is hip deep in February the Gulf Coast will seem mighty inviting. A boat that draws less than 2' will put you a lot closer to the beach without grounding at low tide.

I've started Oughtred's book and he seems to believe the Grey Seal to be a capable offshore cruiser. Now I'm looking more closely at both the Grey Seal and the Penquin.No doubt both boats are capable of going to and returning safely from most anyplace you want to go. There's more to it than that. Either boat is a major undertaking. To my mind, Penguin wins on several counts. Rig. Trailer weight. 4 bunks versus 3. Building method. Outboard versus inboard engine. Less ballast to cast and install. More room in the stern as a result of the transom.

If you haven't found these links already, here they are again:
Grey Seal Saturday Morning (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JamesWagner/index.html)
Penguin (http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatPenguin/tropicalpenguinfolder/PenguinAust.html)

Build the one that grabs you.

By all means, just build it!

[Venchka]

ps

Many moons ago in a galaxy far far away, my first boat had a marconi sloop rig out of that OTHER spar material. I didn't know any better back then. Heck, I bought the boat so I could learn how to sail.

I won't be using that rig again.

[htom]

The ideal boat would be built of copper-nickel strakes. Riveted or welded, your choice, as the 3m 5200 between them would hold them anyway.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by htom:
The ideal boat would be built of copper-nickel strakes. Riveted or welded, your choice, as the 3m 5200 between them would hold them anyway.Copper rivets & roves of course. Steam bent Monel frames. Dipped in Rhino-Lining.

[Aramas]

Or how about lapstrake fettucine sealed with olive oil and fastened with olives and anchovy paste? If you don't like the boat you can eat it.

And Penguin is a nice boat, but will not sate double enderitus smile.gif

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Aramas:
...And Penguin is a nice boat, but will not sate double enderitus smile.gif Ah yes, Double Enderitis. A terrible affliction for sure. Witness my forthcoming launch of a boat pointed at both ends. A terrible waste of space in the stern. If I ever acquire a proper trailerable cruiser, I will attempt to force logic and reason to prevail over the terrible Double Enderitis.

Would someone please pay Iain Oughtred to transpose Eun Mara's rig to Grey Seal or Wee Seal II? Hmmmmmmmmm?????????? Or, issue proper plans for a stretched Eun Mara? I may have to do it myself. I reckon 500 Quids or Euros might get the ball rolling. :D

[Tom Irvine]

Hey Wayne, I've been reading some about building spars and think I might go for it - it's an option anyways.

About the double ender thing - isn't it a more efficient hull shape? I mean. . .there's more to this than looks. I thought a square transom created more drag.

As for the Penguin, I haven't ruled it out, It looks very comfortable and easy to build, but it bugs me that JW has no pictures of completed Penguins. It seems almost like he drew the plans and released them with out building one first - left it for others to work out the problems.

I also wonder about the high profile that the boat must have in order to sport so much headroom. As a paddler - I've always sought to keep my profile low to avoid catching wind - is this not so with sailboats?

Tom

[Bruce Taylor]

it bugs me that JW has no pictures of completed Penguins. It seems almost like he drew the plans and released them with out building one first When you hire an architect to design a house he repairs to his drafting table, or computer workstation, and creates a design. When he's done, he gives you a big pile of paper, and you give him a big pile of money, and he has finished the main part of his job.

If the architect is a conscientious professional, he makes himself freely available to the builder, and willingly solves any design problem that arise. What he does NOT do, as a rule, is build the house first at his own expense, just to be sure it's perfect!

I think you'll find the same is true of the more prolific boat designers -- especially those who design cruising vessels. How many of his designs did Alden build himself? Or W. Starling Burgess? It's probably safe to assume that Phil Bolger has not built prototypes for each of his 600 designs (including the HMS Rose smile.gif )!

If you have serious questions about Penguin, you should consult John Welsford himself. He frequents this forum, and answers his emails promptly.

[Aramas]

About the double ender thing - isn't it a more efficient hull shape? I mean. . .there's more to this than looks. I thought a square transom created more drag.
Nope. Just aesthetics. Some people still maintain that double enders are more seaworthy, but it's bollocks. It seems to stem from a lot of seaworthy boats being double ended (eg lifeboats, viking ships, colin archers). They were seaworthy and double ended rather than seaworthy because they were double ended.
There are a number of practical reasons why most boats are transom sterned, but for a small minority a pointed stern is the natural termination of a hull, and a transom stern is just a sawn off pointed stern.
It's a bit like choosing between a plain girl who's an excellent cook and a beautiful girl that can burn water. I'd take the water burner and eat out smile.gif

[ 09-13-2003, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Scott Rosen]

As others have said, if you are looking for an offshore sailer, you should start by looking for suitable designs. When you are in the demanding conditions offshore, every little design detail can make a huge difference in comfort, safety and peace of mind.

Once you find the design you like, and you know the type of conditions you will be encountering, the construction method will suggest itself.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure you could build plywood lap to handle just about any offshore conditions. It's a great construction method--light, strong, pretty and easy to build.

[Tom Irvine]

Aramas, I'm not persuaded that the pointed stern is simply a matter of asthetics.

Any paddler will know that if you paddle or row a square transomed hull (where the squareness of the transom lies below the waterline) you will hear the noisy gurgling of water as it crashes in on your wake - this is drag. Now try an Adirondack guide boat, a good canoe or a kayak - hear and feel the difference. These hulls gently part the water with long fine entries, then bring the water gently back together again when they're "finished." That's why canoes and kayaks and rowing shells *function* best as "double enders." Why wouldn't this be true for any displacement hull?

[Aramas]

Yacht transoms are not immersed. From the transom down they're the same as double enders. Canoes are a special case because they pitch and heave in time with the paddler, causing the stern to rise and fall. They also operate at fairly high hull speeds, causing the stern to squat, and they are load sensitive and experience large variations in trim.
However, I have seen successful transom sterned canoes, albeit very long ones.

It just occurred to me that you might be talking about those wacky chopped up canoes with a huge transom for an outboard. The big open american style canoes (called Canadian canoes over here) are mostly used at low speeds in protected waters, so they don't face the same design requirements as sea kayaks and yachts. When I say 'canoe' I invariably mean kayak. The only experiences I've had with Canadian canoes were not pleasant ones. The open yank double paddle canoes are different again, and are essentially undecked kayaks.

[ 09-13-2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Tom Irvine]

Thanks for the clarification, Aramas. Do you agree then, that where the transom sits below the water line, it would create drag?

As I said, the Penguin hasn't been ruled out, in fact, I'm having a "Penguin day" today - if I were to order plans now, it'd be a Penguin. I like the idea of building around the bulkheads.

As a kayaker, I've been paddling around local harbors looking at sailboat transoms. Some are, indeed, lifted out of the water, but not all. (I also spend some time talking with the owners.)

Thanks for kicking these ideas around. . .

Tom

[Aramas]

An immersed transom on a yacht should be fairly unusual, and more likely a result of overloading than the original design intent. A couple of inches won't make much difference, but it doesn't speak well of a boat's load carrying ability if it's empty.
It's supportable in a modern broad sterned racer type, since they're designed so that the stern rises in the water as they heel (to keep the bow at the correct trim) and are generally driven hard, so it would be trading better flow when heeled and seperation running at speed, against a little extra light wind drag.
On a traditionally proportioned cruising boat, I wouldn't touch a submerged transom with a barge pole.
I should probably put in a disclaimer here - all of this is just my opinion, but one would hope that all those years at the maritime college weren't entirely as wasted as I was smile.gif

[garland reese]

Hey Tom

Here is a Penguin. There is now a yawl rig option.....That is one salty boat :D :cool:

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/with_a_wing__a_prayer2.JPG

[ 09-13-2003, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

[JimD]

Anyone heard anything lately about Elly, built in Sweden originally no one is sure when but perhaps up to 150 yrs ago? I think mmd had some involvement in her restoration. Sorry if I'm wrong about that, mmd.

[Tom Irvine]

Beautiful picture, Garland. That wouldn't be your boat would it? If not, where'd you get this? Are there any more?

[Venchka]

Tom,

If the Double Enderitis hasn't totally consumed you yet, you could go to Ottawa, Ontario and view a Penguin under construction.

Jonas building Penguin (http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006816&p=)

Or, you could go to Minnesota and view Saturday Morning. Better hurry before it ices up.

Saturday Morning (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JamesWagner/index.html)

Take two aspirin, drink lots of liquids, get plenty of rest and maybe that case of Double Enderitis will go away. The good news is that either way, transom or not, you'll have a great boat. smile.gif

[Tom Irvine]

It's been a good thread for me. I was at the Buffalo waterfront yeasterday looking at the schooner Amistad which was anchored there. Great big beautiful working replica of the original. Anyways, I took the opportunity to look around at the other boats, and sure enough, just as Aramas pointed out, the transoms of nearly all the yachts do ride above the waterline.

So today is still another Penguin day. The Grey Seal is still a contender, but I'm afraid the lost cockpit space would be missed. Perhaps if Oughtred were to make it a little bigger. . .?

But, my worries about the inadequacy of lapstrake as a construction technique are gone.

By the way, Wayne, there was a Caledonia Yawl in the harbor yesterday. Looked real nice.

Tom

[Dave Fleming]

Anyone heard anything lately about Elly, built in Sweden originally no one is sure when but perhaps up to 150 yrs ago? I think mmd had some involvement in her restoration. Sorry if I'm wrong about that, mmd.
JimD, I dunno if MMD had anything to do with a rebuild of Elly when she was brought over from Sweden but IIRC he is friendly with Bill Gilkerson and his wife from whose family Elly came. We just commented in Misc Boat Realated in the thread on Danish Porn on the similarity between Elly and the subject vessel in the thread.

Edited to add: Sorry Tom for the momentary hijacking of your thread.

[ 09-15-2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Tom Irvine:
...By the way, Wayne, there was a Caledonia Yawl in the harbor yesterday. Looked real nice.

TomOh, really? Any name on her or who the owner might be?

[Tom Irvine]

Yes there was, but I neglected to take note. I belive it was a part of the Buffalo State College boatbuilding program. I could probably find this info for you.

BTW, some of the boats they had on display should not have been. There was a plywood kayak with a hogged keel and a bargelike sailboat with glass cloth that was lifting off of the wood and a couple of sloppy lookin' seams. The Caledonia Yawl looked pretty good, though. Whoever made it did a nice job.

Tom

[Barrett Faneuf]

Tom,

My Double Enderitis is terminal. I ended up writing John Welsford and commissioning a bigger design than Penguin in Endus Doublicus form. We jokingly call it "Eun Mara's big sister on steroids". Specifically designed to be trailerable, lapstrake ply on bulkheads (like Penguin", gaff yawl rig.

Here's a peek at my other thread about it.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002616

Hoping for plans very soon now and will be posting many a picture.

[Tom Irvine]

Barrett, that sounds pretty tantalizing. What are the vital stats like length, beam and draft?

And just what does it mean to be the "HIgh Priestess of the Power Chicks?" smile.gif

[Tom Irvine]

Sorry, Barrett - I just checked your thread and found the vitals there. But I still wanna know about this "power chick" thing.

Tom

[Barrett Faneuf]

The power chick thing is also in that thread, I think.

Mostly has to do with having 2 X-chromosomes, yet much more interested in power tools than makeup, and enjoys going to (for example) wooden block making seminars more than the mall.

[Barrett Faneuf]

Far, FAR more than the mall.