Daggerboard or leeboard?

[pdahlgren]

Hello everyone. As this is my first post on this forum, I'll give a brief introduction of myself. I have been messing about in boats all my life. I even went sailing on the Tahiti Ketch my father built (launched in 1943) before I was born. I still have the Tahiti (Thora). She's on the hard for the winter, here in Connecticut. Last year I retired after working as a geologist in the environmental field, and then a few years as a high school earth science teacher.

On to my question. I have just started building Iain Oughtred's Acorn 10 foot dinghy. In the plans, he gives options for daggerboard, centerboard or a single leeboard, to be shifted on tacking. I kind of like the idea of not putting a hole in the boat for a daggerboard. I have completely ruled out the centerboard because of the room it takes. The dinghy will be Thora's tender, so room for people, gear and the like is important. As Oughtred describes the use of the leeboard, it sounds simple enough. But, I do wonder just how difficult it might be to handle while singlehanding under sail in tight quarters, where numerous tacks might be needed. It would be great to hear from someone who has actually used a leeboard (I have not).

Also, I assume that this is a good place for advice if (when) I get myself in trouble with the building process.

Paul Dahlgren

[Stan C]

Hello Paul,

I have not used one either but as one who has admitted on this forum in the past that I am willing to consider them as an option I am interested to see what this thread will produce.

By the way, I am somewhat envious of your experience as you described it. Cruising boats are what I'm attending boatbuilding school for, with no background in sailing but a couple of daysails I'm still sure that I want one.

Best of luck with your project.

stan c

[bainbridgeisland]

How often do you plan to sail? Seems to me, if you sail most of the time, you may not want to move the leeboard each tack or jibe.

You also might consider a single leeboard that works on both tacks (like a Sabot or Optamist dinghy).

[Robert - Hoopers Island MD]

Paul,

Last summer I built a Bolger modified WindSprint as a proxy for a Hoopers Island sharpie. One of the modifications was to drop the asymetrical (not on centerline) dagger board for a pivoting leeboard. Most of the water where I live is very shallow. With the pivoting leeboard I sail very happily in 2 feet of water or less (up to a point). I graphic that shows the position of the leeboard on the WindSprint plans can be found at

http://www.instantboats.com/images/windsprint9.jpg

The dagger board slot/sheath is rigth along port side of the boat (as the plans indicate).

I would probably very happy with the original WindSprint dagger boad or a leeboard if I were in an area with deeper water. For me the pivoting leeboard was perfect. There is just one and it does not need to be changed from side to side. I borrowed or addapted the design for Jim Michalak's book.

Robert

[Canoeyawl]

I have tried tacking to weather in a small craft with a single leeboard and quickly gave it up… it is a pain. There is plenty to do while tacking a small boat without fishing a wet board out and shifting it to the leeward - that is not the side of the boat we want to be on right now!!!
The Sabot fitting for an attached leeboard / weatherboard is a great improvement and it can all (pivot fitting, board, etc) be removed easily.

[Boatmik]

I would choose a centreboard for real sailing performance any time.

However leeboards are not tooo bad - particularly if Oughtred has drawn them up - he understands sailing performance very well so makes them deep enough and wide enough.

A big advantage of the leeboards for a boat that is used as a tender is that there is nothing inside the hull to get in the way of the shopping or the crowd you are trying to get ashore.

I would be tempted to fit two leeboards though - to get rid of the hassles of moving them when you tack.

However if the leeboard is relatively long (3.5 to 4ft) it may be adequate on both tacks without changing sides. it does have to be designed to take the loads in both directions - eg Bolger's Nymph dinghy leeboard clips over the gunwale and has an extended finger that hangs well down inside the hull.

Regards
Michael Storer
My Boats (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~storerm)

[ 02-27-2006, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Boatmik ]

[sv Lorelei]

Paul,

Welcome! I admired Thora when she came into the marina last fall! I'm stored about 8 boats away from you! (Little plastic boat...can't miss it). Are you going to be keeping her at RBM next season?

Also, I'd opt for an enclose pivoting centerboard even though it'll suck up some room, and I'll tell you why. If you're heavily laden rowing or towing into a sea water will tend to pump up into a daggerboard trunk. You really can't make the trunk any higher than the thwarts without it getting in the way. A well designed trunk will allow you to have a kick up centerboard and mount your tackle high enough to avoid the gushing problem. I've never sailed a boat with leeboards, but they look like a real PITA to work with.

All the best!

Tim

[Robert - Hoopers Island MD]

Perhaps some information from someone has a fair amount of experience leeboards would be in order. That would not be me. The following link to some of Michalak's oversevations about pivoting leeboards might fit the bill.

http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0901/index.htm#LEEBOARD%20ISSUES

I would differ with Michalak in one area. I found it better to add ballast to the leeboard (lead shot and epoxy in 2-1/4 inch holes).

regards, Robert

[nedL]

Paul, I knew Thora when your parents kept here on the Navesink in NJ. Glad to hear she is well.
Ned Lloyd

[ 03-09-2006, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[Stiletto]

If short tacking would be a problem, would it be feasible to have 2 leeboards one of which would float up out of the way when on the other tack?
Just a thought.

[skuthorp]

I sail with a single leeboard on a canoe, but on a wider craft this might be impractical. How about an off-centre daggerboard as part of a thwart as has been mentioned above I think. Two mounted leeboards seems a lot of extra gear for what is essentially a tender.

[raycon]

Paul,
If you are still debating this question come June you are welcome for a day sail on my sharpie which has leeboards.

Ray

[Thorne]

As long as you are not putting drift pins through the bottom planks, why not build it the way you want and try sailing it with a single roughed-out large leeboard?

If you like leeboards after that, try playing with the size and positioning, or consider using two -- although the space considerations may rule that out.

If you don't like leeboards after playing with them, put a daggerboard case in.

Seems that for a tender, particularly one that will be mostly towed and rowed, any sort of hole in the bottom is going to make things wetter as well as eat up space. I'm a fan of centerboards, but sounds like leeboards are the way for you.

[Dave Hadfield]

I built a sailing rig for a Phil Bolger Elegant Punt, and used it on that and also a 10ft tender I designed.

It has a leeboard that clamps/hooks on the side. There are 2 hooks, one going each side of the midships frame. This stops it pivoting. The hooks are rigid, so the thing can't sway out.

The arrangement is good on either tack. There is no need to flip it. The thing works surprisingly well. Simple and practical.

I'm no fan of daggerboards. I'm always hitting things that are solid with them.

Unfortunately I can't find a photo of the leeboard itself, but here's a sketch off Payson's website.

http://www.instantboats.com/images/nymphprof.gif

[ishmael]

A few thoughts.

Tacking quickly through a crowded anchorage with a leeboard that needs shifting is for the nimble. Can be done, how nimble are you?

A leeboard rig that I've got on my Redmond Wisp, adapted from canoes with Old Town hardware, might work. It's a clamp on thwart and a single leeboard that works both tacks, with a wing nut to tighten down. But I suspect it's going to be at least as much in the way when rowing, maybe more so, when fitted to your boat.

How about planning not to sail in crowded anchorages, building the leeboard as drawn, and figuring on oars when you get in close? How are you really going to use the sail rig? As a fun sprite to have on small-boat aventures, or as a way to wend your way into an anchorage? I'll wager that for 95% of the actual use the leeboard isn't an issue.

Finally, drop Ian a line, see what he says. He's thought about small boats about as much as anyone alive.

[brian.cunningham]

If you really need to flip them from side to side, you can run two leeboards one port & one starboard.