Were the first Americans Aussies??

[skuthorp]

Heard this on the radio today, and theyre talking about the first Australians, not us european imports.

First Americans may have been Aussies

Reuters


Tuesday, 7 September* 2004*

Australians may have been the first Mexican tourists, says new research (Image: NASA)
Inhabitants of what is now Australia travelled by canoe to settle in the Americans more than 30,000 years ago, say anthropologists in light of new research.
They would have island hopped via Japan and Polynesia to the Pacific coast of the Americas at a time when sea levels were lower than they are today, Dr Silvia Gonzalez from John Moores University in Liverpool told this week's annual meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science in Exeter.
The claim will be unwelcome to today's native Americans who came overland from Siberia and say they were there first.
Most researchers say they came across the Bering Straits from Russia to Alaska at the end of the Ice Age, up to 15,000 years ago.
But Gonzalez said skeletal evidence pointed strongly to Australian origins and hinted that recovered DNA would corroborate it.
"This is very contentious," said Gonzalez. "[Native Americans] cannot claim to have been the first people there."
She said there was very strong evidence that the first migration came from Australia to the Pacific coast of America.
Skulls of a people with distinctively long and narrow heads discovered in Mexico and California predated by several thousand years the more rounded features of the skulls of native Americans.
One particularly well preserved skull of a long-face woman had been carbon dated to 12,700 years ago, whereas the oldest accurately dated native American skull was only about 9000 years old.
"We have extracted her DNA. It is going to be a bomb," she said, declining to give details but adding that the tests carried out so far were being replicated to make sure they were accurate.
She said there were tales from Spanish missionaries of an isolated coastal community of long-face people in Baja California, known as the Pericues, who were of a completely different race and rituals from other communities in America at the time.
"They appear more similar to southern Asians and the populations of the Pacific Rim than they do to northern Asians," she said. "You cannot have two face shapes coming from the same place."
The last survivors were wiped out by diseases imported by the Spanish conquerors, Gonzalez said.

with AFP and ABC Science Online

[Big Red]

Wow, keep us posted! :eek: There is evidence here in Australia that the Aboriginals have been here 50,000 years. There was colonisation from Africa that went via the Middle East and Asia to get to here.

There was also colonisation that came across the Pacific and ended up in New Zealand. I find it hard to believe that anyone could have migrated to America via Japan. Especially 12,700 years ago. I don't think the land masses were that close back then.

Perhaps they might have gone North East form Queensland via the Islands and Hawaii. Any old salts out there want to venture an opinion on ocean currents? Even the journey from Russia to Alaska is a bloody long way.

If thats how the whole American peninsula was populated, boy thats a long way also. That was one hell of a canoe they had. Any Anthroplogists out there?

[paladin]

..my people were here FIRST...long before those upside down people...that's my story, and I'm sticking to it....

[Roger Stouff]

Originally posted by paladin:
..my people were here FIRST...long before those upside down people...that's my story, and I'm sticking to it....I'm with Paladin. smile.gif

I was an anthro major in college, though I dropped my senior year. There is considerable evidence of Japanese sea-faring cultures making journeys to the northwest coast of South America. In fact, it's likely that they brought pottery to the Americas, according to many researchers.

My anthro proff at USL put it best, I think. He said folks have been coming to America for tens of thousands of years, individually, in small groups or en masse. The Native American as we know them are largely Siberian/Asian stock, but there's ample DNA evidence of other bloodlines within us.

The only irritating thing about any of these "First Americans" announcements is that it really is unprovable on any front. The habitation of these continents was a gradual process from several sources, some small, some large.

Best,
R

[ 09-07-2004, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Roger Stouff ]

[skuthorp]

I think the whole thing wildly preposterous too, after all look at your football and ours!!!
:D

[Leigh]

Oh, I don't know about that....it stands to reason, after all we both speak english.....

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by Big Red:
Wow, keep us posted! :eek: There is evidence here in Australia that the Aboriginals have been here 50,000 years. There was colonisation from Africa that went via the Middle East and Asia to get to here.

There was also colonisation that came across the Pacific and ended up in New Zealand. I find it hard to believe that anyone could have migrated to America via Japan. Especially 12,700 years ago. I don't think the land masses were that close back then.

Perhaps they might have gone North East form Queensland via the Islands and Hawaii. Any old salts out there want to venture an opinion on ocean currents? Even the journey from Russia to Alaska is a bloody long way.

If thats how the whole American peninsula was populated, boy thats a long way also. That was one hell of a canoe they had. Any Anthroplogists out there?As Heyerdahl demonstrated, it is quite possible to make long voyages in relatively "primative" boats, so, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have worked their way by sea and land up the Asian coast to Japan and from there on to Russia and Alaska. The sea distances involved are certainly a LOT less than the distance from Hawaii to the American (used in the broad sense) mainland. For that matter, at current sea levels, the distance from the Russian mainland to the Alaskan mainland is only 50 miles -- a distance easily covered in just about any boat if the weather is right.

That said, I think Roger is on the right track when he says that Native Americans have long been considered to have arrived in multiple waves from multiple sources. So, the big surprise here, if there is one, is simply that this is a source that was not previously known, rather than that someone beat "Native Americans" to these shores. The "who beat who" thinking sounds to me like someone trying to make the story bigger than it is...

[Roger Stouff]

The "who beat who" thinking sounds to me like someone trying to make the story bigger than it is...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So true, Bruce. It's gotten to be chic. :rolleyes:

[Meerkat]

Nah - native Americans are Chinese immigrants. Why do you think chinese food is so popular!?! It reminds people of the old country at some deep genetic level. ;)

[paladin]

Oh, I don't know about that....it stands to reason, after all we both speak english....

Well....Sorta.......yours izz a really strange dialect.... :D :D

[ahp]

First comment: The land masses haven't moved very much in 12,000 years, but sea level has.

Second: Japanese sailing craft, which have an uncanny resemblence to Roman sailing craft, were terrible to windward. Once they were blown off shore and into the Japan Current towards Alaska, it was probably a one way trip to the Americas.

[Jerry Sousa]

http://www.vancouvermaritimemuseum.com/watery/reach_america.htm

[Jerry Sousa]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3634544.stm

[skuthorp]

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/KowS.html
This archaeological site has evidence of major concurrent diferences in morphology over a fairly limited time scale as is mooted in the BBc science site.
I might add that I meant no offence and my post was definitely tounge-in-cheek!

[Big Red]

Originally posted by skuthorp:
I think the whole thing wildly preposterous too, after all look at your football and ours!!!
:D Ooh, ours is soo much better tongue.gif

[doorstop]

Sorry even though you should give it all back to us we don't want it, we don't have room for another star on our flag and it would cost us a bloody fortune teaching youse yanks how to speak proper and also all that retraining of yer footy players would be a paininnabum

[Peter Page]

Don't forget that we use metric. and we don't wont Bush either. We have enough trouble with Johnie.

[PeterSibley]

Not for long............ :D

[skuthorp]

Hey Doorstop, teachin' the lingo would be Dingo's job, but you're dead right about the flag, how many points is that on the federal star?
Maybe we could call em the East Island? No, hang on, that's NZ!
And as for Bush, well, it would be like having Joe Bejelke-Petersen back!
:D

[ 09-08-2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: skuthorp ]

[PeterSibley]

How about the Far East ? tongue.gif

[doorstop]

What about the "UNITED STATES of AUSTRALIA" Eastern annexe?

[skuthorp]

'OZERICA' ??

'AUS' ??
smile.gif

[ 09-08-2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: skuthorp ]

[doorstop]

AUS.... the AUSTRALIAN UNITED STATES! .... hmmmmm...... works for me SkuJeff.... :D

[PeterSibley]

Seventh State ?

[skuthorp]

:D :D :D
What about Canada?? :cool:

[Big Red]

You guys stop that right now! Look what happened when we "annexed" New bloody Zealand. Gawd, now we're swamped with Kiwi's :D

[ 09-08-2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Big Red ]

[Jase]

Obviously raising the collective IQ's of both countries tongue.gif hehe

[Peter Page]

Do we want to be responsible for the US? Its not my fault.
Peter :D

[ahp]

What is wrong with New Zealand, really? I have never been there but might visit some time.

[Big Red]

Nothing. New Zealand is awesome. I only visited the south island and its Gods own country :D So I can't explain what they're all doin over here ;) It is a bit colder there? Maybe you get sick of seeing beautiful mountains and lakes and forrests after a while? I dunno smile.gif

The embarrassment of being crap at rugby I expect tongue.gif tongue.gif

[John B]

Big Red, the reason is the fantastic opportunities in property you have over there. ;)
You see, it works like this. If you are a pensioner and have a low mortgage in your little house in Mt Albert( NZ), you can borrow loads of cash and buy a new house on the gold coast (AU)for oooo say 50 % above the real market value. ( ' course, you don't know that at the time because the real estate agents and valuers like to work together. They can work out what a nice fair price for a Kiwi should be). Then you get to have that most fantastic of all boons.... NEGATIVE EQUITY. Yes Negative equity so you can claim back against all that tax you have to pay because you're such a big earner ( pensioners are like that now aren't they).

and while we're speaking of sharks in Brisbane... did you read about the tiger shark trying to grab some people out of their inflatable. It's in the news over here today.

here tis.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3596126

[ 09-30-2004, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Big Red]

Yeah I saw that in the paper. Never did like inflatables. Now I got another reason :eek:

Not sure where I learnt it, but I know not to play with the animals that can eat you ;)