Sitka Spruce Doors

[Kristian]

Is sitka spruce suitable for making passage doors for a house? We're concerned about stability of the wood.

[B. Darrah Thomas]

If by "passage" doors you mean interior, I would say S Spruce is at least suitable, if not better quality than necessary... I mean... 'er... NO! Poor quality material, Ship it to me at...
:D

[tsunami]

Spruce Doors-The wood is known for its high strength to weight ratio and while I think its more than stable, I think for a door weight adds a feeling of security(I know we are talking passage here,but stil....)its awful pricey usually too.Fir is a better choice.I am a carpenter by trade.Good Luck

[gert]

(for those who don't know, I'm Kristian's father)Actualy it will be an exterior door, stile and rail construction. Sitka sruce is being considered only because we have a bunch left over, it's all old growth edge grain clear. It's just sitting around doing nothing, some of it is 20' ft long, I'd rather use it than buy new, besides it's nice to work. We were just wonderin abouts it's stability.

[Concordia..41]

Not good for a door. Ship it to me and I will ship you a pre hung oak door.
Ha! Ha!

Dave
:rolleyes:

[Frank Wentzel]

Gert

You're just trying to make us cry - right?

It's working! :(

/// Frank ///

[Kermit]

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!

Sell the spruce, buy some fir. Or whatever.

Seriously. The best exterior doors I ever made were done custom for an old house requiring some odd sizes. I used ash and finished them with an oil finish--Daly's SeaFin. They got a wipedown with one coat of the finish on a rag once a year, and still look great after nearly thirty years. Heavy and solid. I've got some great 8/4 ash I'd trade...

But in answer to your question, Sitka Spruce should work just fine.

[ 10-28-2002, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Kermit ]

[gary porter]

Kristian, The spruce will make a wonderful door and I for one think you should go for it. Might want to make a steel grate door to go over it as the Pawn shops do as someone might be inclined to steel it. Just kidding. It will be beautiful.
Gary

[Art Read]

Uhhhmmmm... Some over 20' long you say? I know the forum rules frown on this, but I gotta 20 foot mast needs building sometime soon. Wanna do a little "horse trading"?

[John Teetsel]

If you need router bits for this project, may I humbly submit that MLCS has a set ($150 US) that worked flawlessly for my doors. I did two of these in 8/4 mahagony for about $400 US. Oh, that spruce will be beautiful.

http://bluemax44.home.pipeline.com/img23.jpg

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_stack.html#entry%20door%20cutters%20anchor

[John Teetsel]

Paul, look down the page for the "Matched Rail and Stile Cutters for Entry Doors"

By popular demand, MLCS now carries a selection of carbide tipped rail and stile bits for making entry doors. These cutters come as a matched 2-piece bit set. Use for 1-3/8" stock (interior doors) or 1-3/4" stock (exterior doors). MLCS will show you how to use these bits to make rail and stiles for entry doors. FREE INSTRUCTIONS available for these bits.
The "Free instructions" referred to is a rather large pdf file that covers instructions for every bit they sell. The section for the entry set is a bit ambiguous, but trial and error prevailed, as it's a pretty straightforward procedure. These are the BIGGEST router bits ever, easily a pound a piece, but my trusty Porter-Cable 693 1 1/2 hp router (purchased specifically for this project :D ) handled the cuts in a single pass.

New project = new tools. ;)

[ishmael]

Kristian,

A biased look, but as has been said, the stock you have is not common, and ideally shouldn't be used for common purposes. Sell it to a boat or airplane builder, build your door in oak or ash or mahogany or pine, and go have some sushi on the difference.

It is a pagan superstition of mine, but I think trees like to be used for suitable purposes. Old growth, clear Sitka Spruce yearns to be a spar.

The stock would work fine for doors, but much better for spars.

Jack

[gert]

It's not an ordinary house and the door/s will be the main entry and they won't be too ordinary either. Trees like being doors, they get to meet more people that way. Trust me the wood won't be wasted; though cutting the 20s will hurt. Mind you, if ya want it...

[gert]

It's not an ordinary house and the door/s will be the main entry and they won't be too ordinary either. Trees like being doors, they get to meet more people that way. Trust me the wood won't be wasted; though cutting the 20s will hurt. Mind you, if ya want it...

[John Teetsel]

Trees like being doors, they get to meet more people that way. Trust me the wood won't be wasted; though cutting the 20s will hurt. Mind you, if ya want it... I love the idea, meeting people.

But if a person was to REALLY want some of that long stuff to put up, say, a mast, could we talk?

[ishmael]

gert,

No desire to preach; as your conscience allows. I do know that you could find a buyer in a heartbeat. And, I think white oak, or mahogany, or fir would be better suited. All are much more resistant to rot if the door falls on hard times, as it might eventually. Spruce will rot like nobody's business. Best use!

Have fun with it. I won't hold it agin ya if you use it for a door, but consider how it might be out sailing for the next hundred years.

Jack

[Bill Perkins]

I don't know if security is an issue where you live ,but surely a stronger wood would make a stronger mortise for the lock .A good kick would break out the Spruce I would think .

[Dave Williams]

Ishmael said it best. There is a better use for this wood especially in long lengths. And there are better woods for doors.

Thats what I think.

Good luck,
Dave

[gert]

It aint been cut yet. Beleive me I hear you. All the other doors are vg fir so I probably should go that rout cause of the finish. As for security, there realy is no such thing, I think the most effective part of our system is the sticker they give you to put on the window. I have about 800 bf of the stuff and storage space around here is a premium.

[ishmael]

gert,

So, you finally confess! 800bf! A small gold mine. What thicknesses and lengths?

[John Teetsel]

A small gold mine?? A small FOREST!! How did you come by this treasure?

[gert]

There is a local reman shop that cuts for export only; what ever does not make a full pallet goes to the odds n sods pile. The stuff varies from 1/2x7 to 2x6, but all premium. They were giving away a full lift of vg cedar who's average thickness was only 3/8" but with remilling would have been perfect for cold molding.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by gert:
(for those who don't know, I'm Kristian's father)Actualy it will be an exterior door, stile and rail construction...We were just wonderin abouts it's stability.BioDegradation

One thing to consider for an exterior door is how well the wood deal with moisture and its propensity for rot and other forms of biodegradation.

Sitka spruce is valued for spars because of its high strength/weight ratio, not because it's terribly resistant or stable. Spruce spars are traditionally kept bright so that the telltale black stains indicating biodegradation are readily apparent early on. The FPLWood Handbook: Wood as an Engineering Material (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm) lists spruce as having 'slight or nonresistance to decay'.

For an exterior door, I'd rather have something more resistant to rot and decay.

Subjective Impressions

And, as others have pointed out, spruce is awfully light. From an aesthetic and experiential point of view, a lightweight door, internal or exteroior, does not offer a satisying user experience. Lightweight doors do not convey a sense of security or privacy. Compare and contrast the act of closing the basic Home-Depot style hollow-core interior door with that of closing a much more solid door -- say, a heavy metal/glass door in an older office building, or the doors of a cathedral. Try comparing the door action between, say, a mid-80s Toyota and that of a big Mercedes-Benz. Which doors give you a satifying sense of security and privacy? Which leave you feeling like they are nothing but so much tissue paper, offering little but the illusion of security?

Note that heavy doors don't have to be difficult to open/close. It's all in how they are balanced.

Sitka sruce is being considered only because we have a bunch left over, it's all old growth edge grain clear. It's just sitting around doing nothing, some of it is 20' ft long, I'd rather use it than buy new, besides it's nice to work.Honduran Mahogany is nice to work, too, and makes a fine door. It's dimensionally stable and resistant to rot. It's attractive, and it works like a dream.

If you want a bright-finished door of blonde wood, you might consider using Alaskan Yellow Cedar. It's a beautiful wood, with many of the same characteristics as mahogany -- decay-resistant, fine grained, works well, dimensionally stable, etc. And again, I'd bet you could horse trade sitka for AYC.

I'm willing to bet that you can trade long lengths of old-growth, vertical grain sitka spruce at par or better for Honduran Mahogany of equal or better quality.

[gert]

relax; I'm not gonna do it. I agree with all the above points. From my experience in building the mast for Carina it's stability is questionable. And weight is desired, especialy as it's the main entry.
Thx again