"Faux" Tarred Yacht Marline - any good?

[Thorne]

There is the famed traditional real hemp with real tar yacht marline, often mentioned in the older knot and maritime books. There is at least one supplier listed in the Traditional Cordage thread.

But what about the modern subsitutes? I have a spool from our hosts, labelled "Yacht Marline", but I think the material is polyester of some sort, and the "tar" seems to be unscented sticky colored stuff of some sort.

Tarred nylon seine twine has also been mentioned -- again, is this really tarred with tar, or some modern subsitute? How does it compare to the poly cord?

No critical need to know, but I'm curious as to how these modern subsitute products compare to the originals, and what they use to mimic them.

[Thorne]

There is the famed traditional real hemp with real tar yacht marline, often mentioned in the older knot and maritime books. There is at least one supplier listed in the Traditional Cordage thread.

But what about the modern subsitutes? I have a spool from our hosts, labelled "Yacht Marline", but I think the material is polyester of some sort, and the "tar" seems to be unscented sticky colored stuff of some sort.

Tarred nylon seine twine has also been mentioned -- again, is this really tarred with tar, or some modern subsitute? How does it compare to the poly cord?

No critical need to know, but I'm curious as to how these modern subsitute products compare to the originals, and what they use to mimic them.

[Thorne]

There is the famed traditional real hemp with real tar yacht marline, often mentioned in the older knot and maritime books. There is at least one supplier listed in the Traditional Cordage thread.

But what about the modern subsitutes? I have a spool from our hosts, labelled "Yacht Marline", but I think the material is polyester of some sort, and the "tar" seems to be unscented sticky colored stuff of some sort.

Tarred nylon seine twine has also been mentioned -- again, is this really tarred with tar, or some modern subsitute? How does it compare to the poly cord?

No critical need to know, but I'm curious as to how these modern subsitute products compare to the originals, and what they use to mimic them.

[Donn]

I use tarred nylon seine twine from Memphis Net & Twine. Here's how they describe it:

"This twine is specially black treated and dried before it's put on the spool. It has many advantages over twine treated by “spool dunking.” It is uniformly and deeply coated from one end to the other — no “zebra stripes” or tar globs to come off on your hands. It's dry, easy-to-tie, and holds knots well."

I use it for tying bamboo, for whipping and general twine duty. It has a very faint 'tar' smell, but no sign of it on my hands, even after using it for hours. It holds it's color well, out in the weather. Some of my garden structures are outside for a year now, and there is faint fading, but not noticed from a distance. The material is strong, and holds together nicely.

M emphis Net & Twine ("")

[Donn]

I use tarred nylon seine twine from Memphis Net & Twine. Here's how they describe it:

"This twine is specially black treated and dried before it's put on the spool. It has many advantages over twine treated by “spool dunking.” It is uniformly and deeply coated from one end to the other — no “zebra stripes” or tar globs to come off on your hands. It's dry, easy-to-tie, and holds knots well."

I use it for tying bamboo, for whipping and general twine duty. It has a very faint 'tar' smell, but no sign of it on my hands, even after using it for hours. It holds it's color well, out in the weather. Some of my garden structures are outside for a year now, and there is faint fading, but not noticed from a distance. The material is strong, and holds together nicely.

M emphis Net & Twine ("")

[Donn]

I use tarred nylon seine twine from Memphis Net & Twine. Here's how they describe it:

"This twine is specially black treated and dried before it's put on the spool. It has many advantages over twine treated by “spool dunking.” It is uniformly and deeply coated from one end to the other — no “zebra stripes” or tar globs to come off on your hands. It's dry, easy-to-tie, and holds knots well."

I use it for tying bamboo, for whipping and general twine duty. It has a very faint 'tar' smell, but no sign of it on my hands, even after using it for hours. It holds it's color well, out in the weather. Some of my garden structures are outside for a year now, and there is faint fading, but not noticed from a distance. The material is strong, and holds together nicely.

M emphis Net & Twine ("")

[Jonathan Kabak]

The Polyester stuff labeled "yacht marline" with the wax coating is fantastic stuff. I have worked with miles of it, it produces excellent service and seizings.

Seine twine is also a highly utilized substitute for traditional marline but for many applications I prefer the synthetic marline mentioned above.

Both products seem to have all but replaced natural fiber marline in the sail training fleet.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Kabak]

The Polyester stuff labeled "yacht marline" with the wax coating is fantastic stuff. I have worked with miles of it, it produces excellent service and seizings.

Seine twine is also a highly utilized substitute for traditional marline but for many applications I prefer the synthetic marline mentioned above.

Both products seem to have all but replaced natural fiber marline in the sail training fleet.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Kabak]

The Polyester stuff labeled "yacht marline" with the wax coating is fantastic stuff. I have worked with miles of it, it produces excellent service and seizings.

Seine twine is also a highly utilized substitute for traditional marline but for many applications I prefer the synthetic marline mentioned above.

Both products seem to have all but replaced natural fiber marline in the sail training fleet.

Jonathan

[Woxbox]

That stuff holds this rig together.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/Woxbox/KNinNYC.jpg

[Woxbox]

That stuff holds this rig together.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/Woxbox/KNinNYC.jpg

[Woxbox]

That stuff holds this rig together.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/Woxbox/KNinNYC.jpg

[Thorne]

WOW!

;-0 )

[Thorne]

WOW!

;-0 )

[Thorne]

WOW!

;-0 )

[ssor]

I make my own from masons nylon twine, pine tar and beeswax. Melt about three parts beeswax with about one part pine tar in a can in a water bath. Heat a tube of masons twine to about 225 in the oven on some aluminum foil, pour some of the melted wax/tar mix over it and wait for it to soak in, add some more until the paper tube is saturated roll the twine around in the oven a few times and let it cool. It will coat your hands, it smells........you decide. I like it, swmbo isn't fond of it.

[ssor]

I make my own from masons nylon twine, pine tar and beeswax. Melt about three parts beeswax with about one part pine tar in a can in a water bath. Heat a tube of masons twine to about 225 in the oven on some aluminum foil, pour some of the melted wax/tar mix over it and wait for it to soak in, add some more until the paper tube is saturated roll the twine around in the oven a few times and let it cool. It will coat your hands, it smells........you decide. I like it, swmbo isn't fond of it.

[ssor]

I make my own from masons nylon twine, pine tar and beeswax. Melt about three parts beeswax with about one part pine tar in a can in a water bath. Heat a tube of masons twine to about 225 in the oven on some aluminum foil, pour some of the melted wax/tar mix over it and wait for it to soak in, add some more until the paper tube is saturated roll the twine around in the oven a few times and let it cool. It will coat your hands, it smells........you decide. I like it, swmbo isn't fond of it.

[Thorne]

Regarding the commercial poly stuff, how the heck do you deal with the ends? Is it hot-cut with a soldering iron or hot-knife?

I like the strength and look of the tarred yacht marline, but unless I trim the ends too close to the knot, they fray and wave about like seaweed. And heaven forfend if I ever have to un- and re-tie these knots -- tangle city.

I tried burning the ends with a match and quenching with wet fingers, but the poly builds up a lot of ash and won't form into a solid sealed end.

[Kim Whitmyre]

I haven't tried it for the small stuff, but what I use to make decent ends is this: I first tape the line tightly, cut thru the middle of the tape, and then heat a putty knife with a torch. Judicious application of the hot putty knife produces a good sealed end without a bulging hard spot that "freehand" burning produces.

3M makes a transparent "duct" tape that you can either leave on or take off, according to your aesthetics.

[1stnewyorker]

I bought a spool from Consolidated Fiber out of Fall River Ma. and wasn't too happy with it for my trad 18th-century boat. It was a great price compared to the tarred hemp from American Rope and Tar, but can't compare in authenticity. I guess you get what you pay for.

[Thorne]

I actually returned the spool of finer tarred yacht marline to Waste Marine, as the issues with the ends not sealing, plus spreading faux tar all over my lovely white paint were too much to deal with.

For a fully trad boat, with oiled finish and little or no paint, I could see using the faux stuff -- but not being able to retie it makes it nearly useless for anything but fixed seizings on my boat.

Might try the real thing from tarsmell.com....when I get the $$.

[Gary Bergman]

We use one heck of a lot of stuff, actually....Traditional cordage, or more 'modern' stuff, we slather it all with 'Stockholm Tar', and the end results are achieved....I can't stress the continued reliability of the stuff, and of course, the folks at American Rope and Tar....

[shark_ef]

ok, i can't find the traditional cordage thread (i used the search tab in teh main page) can someone post its url here?

[Tristan]

I've been using tarred synthetic (probably dacron) twine for years. I also have (and sometimes use) real tarred (hemp) marline. I much prefer the synthetic. It is tarred with pine tar, is incredibly strong, and lasts a bit more than forever. I suggest if you are using it to serve standing rigging you buy some stockholm tar and coat it once a year. Stockholm tar ought to be applied to bare wood below decks too, just so you can enjoy the smell of a real traditional wooden boat! The Bahama sloops and dinghys I saw in Nassau harbor in 1957 (and there were dozens of them then) were all coated heavily with pine tar below decks (or, in the case of dinghys, the inside planking and frames). Google Stockholm tar for sources. I keep a can just to smell occasionally.

[Dave Hadfield]

Tarred nylon seine twine. Great stuff, perfectly useful. It holds many things together on Drake. After 2 years outside, seizings require a painting-on of tar to re-cover the nylon, but being nylon and UV resistant, it's not critical.

[Thorne]

That's one thing I was wondering -- what is the purpose of the tar / wax / whatever used over nylon or polypro cordage?

Other than "yare-ness" ahoy mayties and all that nautical stuff, is there any function other than appearance, smell and getting tar on the paintwork?

[CarlZog]

That stuff holds this rig together.

Yeah, tarred nylon sein twine is pretty much the backbone of the tall ship rigs in the U.S. Compared to other alternatives, it's cheaper, durable and readily available. Its only drawback is its stretching tendencies, which aren't as bad as one might imagine.

Carl

[Dave Hadfield]

Yes, the tar is a good thing. It gives the twine a stickiness and stiffness which makes it perfect to use. The nylon would be far too slippery and limber otherwise.

When you cinch up the tarred nylon, the tar coating seems to act like a lubricant, allowing you to get it very tight, then when you ease up it tends to stick, making it easier to maintain the tension. Then later, the tar tends to make the seizing waterproof -- sort of welding the whole thing together.

[Tristan]

Reminds me, I wonder what ever happened to my serving mallet?

[shark_ef]

i heard that tar (and the need to keep tarring the rig) is becasue the tar keeps things sticky, and felxible, i guess that premise being that as the sun beats down on stuff it gets dry and hard and BRITTLE, that being the thing that needs to be avoided, so the tar keeps the stuff flexible, besides, it smells so good, who wouldn't want tar around?

(there was a previous mention about someone daubing tar in their boat at a show to get that old boat smell, nice!)

[dredbob]

On the square-rigged replica that I crew on, we use the tarred nylon seine twine in a variety of sizes. Pretty much all our whippings, seizings and servings are done with it. The bigger stuff in the rig is Roblon Spunflex, a split fiber polypro rope that looks and feels very traditional. We used to paint the standing rigging with tar (for UV protection), but switched to black latex paint. Goes on easier, cleans up easier, seems to wear about the same.

As for the ends of the small stuff, I like the jetfire style of butane charcoal lighter, works like a little blowtorch, just a quick shot and it melts the tarred nylon quite nicely.

Bob

[Thorne]

So it sound like the faux tar provides "bite" for the artificial cordage.

For real/organic line, I suspect the tar provided both a UV filter and oil to the rope fibers. I have seen modern rope (probably sisal, possibly manila) oiled for preservation -- don't know the oil but can recognize the stains on white canvas...

;0 )

[shark_ef]

oh, god, you aren't advocating a butane backsplice are you?!?!?!

a small piece of string, even sewing thread into a constricter's knot does much better

and when a piece is whipping around, it doesn't cut you
(hard to believe but i've gained a few cuts from butane backsplices)

[Jay Greer]

Well, I hate to say it, but after using both the old and the new, it is a toss up. I like the new because it is stronger to work with. I like the old because it is more forgiving to work with. The new needs to be coated with a synthetic finish and seems to turn gray with age. The new needs to be treated with a mixture of bee's wax and turpentine plus a bit of Stockholm tar. It smells good and makes me think of the old days. Hahr! If you don't mind the work, it is a better working cordage than that there new fangled stuff!
JG

[Gary Bergman]

Thorne; We kinda run like this: if it's to serve up a particular block or ratline, it'll be organic tarred marline. but for general serving, protection, or for covering a fitting or terminal end to prevent chafing, we use the tarred poly seine twine. I burn the ends with a lighter like the crackheads use, and for Roblon(TM), I use a propane torch and utility knife heated up...I don't care for the Waste Marine stuff I've ever purchased, as the tarr falls off.

[ssor]

Here is a link to the Santa Fe Hemp company. They sell 325 foot, 20 pound test hemp twine for 4.65 a ball. I guess you would have to tar it yourself. But that isn't too difficult.

[shark_ef]

no link, but i'm v v interested, tarring is no big deal

[ssor]

Whoops! Here's the link:

http://www.santafehemp.com/

[ssor]

Whoops! here is the link if Scott's rules let me post a short reply:

http://www.santafehemp.com/

[dredbob]

oh, god, you aren't advocating a butane backsplice are you?!?!?!


Only for the small stuff (the seine twine), and only if you want to be able to untie and retie it for some reason. It's kinda small to whip, though I did once put an eyesplice in both ends of a piece of #48 to use as a knife lanyard. I just about blinded myself trying to see what I was doing!

[ssor]

Dredbob, use your wife's counted cross stitch magnifier and a crochet hook. It realy isn't too bad a job that way.

[Thorne]

Time to resurrect this thread -- what size tarred nylon seine twine should I get for my 14' dory skiff? Memphis Net & Twine has it from 9-48.

I'm assuming I should get a roll of the 48 for any heavy lashing work, tying oarlocks to the boat, etc.

Any idea of what other size I should get -- maybe the 30 or 21 or ? Don't want it to get so small that instead I could use waxed linen thread, 'cause I've got lots of that in white, brown and black.

[Thorne]

Well I ordered the 48 and 30, so we shall see.

Here is a pic of one place I'll use the tarred nylon seine twine -- holding my oarlocks on the boat. You can see just how poorly the poly faux-tarred marline looks -- it is plenty strong but unravels, untwists, marks the paint and the ends fray like nobody's business.

http://www.luckhardt.com/polymarline1.jpg