View Full Version : Tapered drill bits
Venchka
10-20-2003, 04:35 PM
Ok, so now that I have a wooden boat, I need to expand my tool assortment so that I can do proper woodwork.
Is this set from Lee Valley Tools an OK starter set of tapered bits, etc. All I need to do right now is add a couple fittings, etc.
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/drilling/07j0101s2.jpg
Lee Valley drill bits (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32334&category=1,180,42240&ccurrency=2&SID=)
Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Venchka
10-20-2003, 04:35 PM
Ok, so now that I have a wooden boat, I need to expand my tool assortment so that I can do proper woodwork.
Is this set from Lee Valley Tools an OK starter set of tapered bits, etc. All I need to do right now is add a couple fittings, etc.
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/drilling/07j0101s2.jpg
Lee Valley drill bits (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32334&category=1,180,42240&ccurrency=2&SID=)
Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Venchka
10-20-2003, 04:35 PM
Ok, so now that I have a wooden boat, I need to expand my tool assortment so that I can do proper woodwork.
Is this set from Lee Valley Tools an OK starter set of tapered bits, etc. All I need to do right now is add a couple fittings, etc.
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/drilling/07j0101s2.jpg
Lee Valley drill bits (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32334&category=1,180,42240&ccurrency=2&SID=)
Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
gary porter
10-20-2003, 04:47 PM
Vencha, Jamestown Distributors as well as many others carry the Fuller line which has a high quality set very similar in a wood case , about the same price.
Not sure who makes the ones your looking at but they might be ok too.
I've had a set of the Fullers for a long time and they are still in good shape. I do buy other taper bits for everyday use, also Fullers from Jamestown.
Let us know how these work out if you buy them.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 04:47 PM
Vencha, Jamestown Distributors as well as many others carry the Fuller line which has a high quality set very similar in a wood case , about the same price.
Not sure who makes the ones your looking at but they might be ok too.
I've had a set of the Fullers for a long time and they are still in good shape. I do buy other taper bits for everyday use, also Fullers from Jamestown.
Let us know how these work out if you buy them.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 04:47 PM
Vencha, Jamestown Distributors as well as many others carry the Fuller line which has a high quality set very similar in a wood case , about the same price.
Not sure who makes the ones your looking at but they might be ok too.
I've had a set of the Fullers for a long time and they are still in good shape. I do buy other taper bits for everyday use, also Fullers from Jamestown.
Let us know how these work out if you buy them.
Gary
I have the Lee Valley set and am very happy with it (so far). The bits seem to stay sharp and the depth stop collars work well.
I have the Lee Valley set and am very happy with it (so far). The bits seem to stay sharp and the depth stop collars work well.
I have the Lee Valley set and am very happy with it (so far). The bits seem to stay sharp and the depth stop collars work well.
High C
10-20-2003, 05:31 PM
Wayne, I too have the Fuller set, and they have held up beautifully for over a decade. The pic you posted does look just like the Fuller stuff, it may be.
High C
10-20-2003, 05:31 PM
Wayne, I too have the Fuller set, and they have held up beautifully for over a decade. The pic you posted does look just like the Fuller stuff, it may be.
High C
10-20-2003, 05:31 PM
Wayne, I too have the Fuller set, and they have held up beautifully for over a decade. The pic you posted does look just like the Fuller stuff, it may be.
Wayne,
DeWalt sells a set of 3 tapered bits with countersinks for #6, #8 and #10 screw sizes for about $25.00. They are available at Home Depot and Lowe's. The thing I like about the DeWalt set is that they have the quick-change shank. I use mine on a daily basis and wouldn't do without the quick-change feature.
Doug
Wayne,
DeWalt sells a set of 3 tapered bits with countersinks for #6, #8 and #10 screw sizes for about $25.00. They are available at Home Depot and Lowe's. The thing I like about the DeWalt set is that they have the quick-change shank. I use mine on a daily basis and wouldn't do without the quick-change feature.
Doug
Wayne,
DeWalt sells a set of 3 tapered bits with countersinks for #6, #8 and #10 screw sizes for about $25.00. They are available at Home Depot and Lowe's. The thing I like about the DeWalt set is that they have the quick-change shank. I use mine on a daily basis and wouldn't do without the quick-change feature.
Doug
NormMessinger
10-20-2003, 07:07 PM
They'd be better if they were shaped like a screw. A #10 bit will not work with a short #10 screw, for example. My set is so old I can't remember from whom I got it but it wasn't a cheepy from say Harbor Freight, et. al. The countersink is not well sharpened and the set screws wont hold very well. On the other hand I use them a lot.
NormMessinger
10-20-2003, 07:07 PM
They'd be better if they were shaped like a screw. A #10 bit will not work with a short #10 screw, for example. My set is so old I can't remember from whom I got it but it wasn't a cheepy from say Harbor Freight, et. al. The countersink is not well sharpened and the set screws wont hold very well. On the other hand I use them a lot.
NormMessinger
10-20-2003, 07:07 PM
They'd be better if they were shaped like a screw. A #10 bit will not work with a short #10 screw, for example. My set is so old I can't remember from whom I got it but it wasn't a cheepy from say Harbor Freight, et. al. The countersink is not well sharpened and the set screws wont hold very well. On the other hand I use them a lot.
I'm sure I've read a thousand posts on WBF, about tapered bits vs other techniques, and I still can't get it down.
The bonaker who worked on Loon last year used 3 different bits to drill every hole. All I know is that the last to be used was a "counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.) He carried all the bits in his pocket, and changed them out without looking with the fancy fluted silver chuck on his HoleShooter.
I asked him why he didn't use tapered bits, and he put down his drill, and hauled me into the shop, and dug a mahogany box of tapered bits out of one of his drawers. "My father made these 50 years ago, and swore they were the best way to drill pilot holes. I've never used them once since he retired."
[ 10-20-2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Donn ]
I'm sure I've read a thousand posts on WBF, about tapered bits vs other techniques, and I still can't get it down.
The bonaker who worked on Loon last year used 3 different bits to drill every hole. All I know is that the last to be used was a "counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.) He carried all the bits in his pocket, and changed them out without looking with the fancy fluted silver chuck on his HoleShooter.
I asked him why he didn't use tapered bits, and he put down his drill, and hauled me into the shop, and dug a mahogany box of tapered bits out of one of his drawers. "My father made these 50 years ago, and swore they were the best way to drill pilot holes. I've never used them once since he retired."
[ 10-20-2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Donn ]
I'm sure I've read a thousand posts on WBF, about tapered bits vs other techniques, and I still can't get it down.
The bonaker who worked on Loon last year used 3 different bits to drill every hole. All I know is that the last to be used was a "counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.) He carried all the bits in his pocket, and changed them out without looking with the fancy fluted silver chuck on his HoleShooter.
I asked him why he didn't use tapered bits, and he put down his drill, and hauled me into the shop, and dug a mahogany box of tapered bits out of one of his drawers. "My father made these 50 years ago, and swore they were the best way to drill pilot holes. I've never used them once since he retired."
[ 10-20-2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Donn ]
N. Scheuer
10-20-2003, 07:33 PM
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby Nick
N. Scheuer
10-20-2003, 07:33 PM
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby Nick
N. Scheuer
10-20-2003, 07:33 PM
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby Nick
Ross M
10-20-2003, 07:49 PM
""counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.)"
FWIW:
A Countersink is used to produce a tapered bore
A Counterbore is is used to produce a flat bottom bore
Ross M
10-20-2003, 07:49 PM
""counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.)"
FWIW:
A Countersink is used to produce a tapered bore
A Counterbore is is used to produce a flat bottom bore
Ross M
10-20-2003, 07:49 PM
""counter" (sink or bore, I can never remember which or why.)"
FWIW:
A Countersink is used to produce a tapered bore
A Counterbore is is used to produce a flat bottom bore
gary porter
10-20-2003, 07:50 PM
Moby, You don't have to have tapered bits, you could just use three different operations to do the same thing. Of course it wouldn't be quite right but would work.
The idea behind tapered bits is to drill the proper size , and shape of hole for the root of the wood screw, which is tapered. The stop sets the depth which also sets the proper width or diameter for the screw and the shank. Then the countersink cuts in the proper countersink. It does take a minute to get it all set up but once it is then you get just the right size hole to recieve the screw. The size is also dependent on hard wood or soft wood. If you are going to use actual wood screws then the tapered bit set is the way to go.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 07:50 PM
Moby, You don't have to have tapered bits, you could just use three different operations to do the same thing. Of course it wouldn't be quite right but would work.
The idea behind tapered bits is to drill the proper size , and shape of hole for the root of the wood screw, which is tapered. The stop sets the depth which also sets the proper width or diameter for the screw and the shank. Then the countersink cuts in the proper countersink. It does take a minute to get it all set up but once it is then you get just the right size hole to recieve the screw. The size is also dependent on hard wood or soft wood. If you are going to use actual wood screws then the tapered bit set is the way to go.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 07:50 PM
Moby, You don't have to have tapered bits, you could just use three different operations to do the same thing. Of course it wouldn't be quite right but would work.
The idea behind tapered bits is to drill the proper size , and shape of hole for the root of the wood screw, which is tapered. The stop sets the depth which also sets the proper width or diameter for the screw and the shank. Then the countersink cuts in the proper countersink. It does take a minute to get it all set up but once it is then you get just the right size hole to recieve the screw. The size is also dependent on hard wood or soft wood. If you are going to use actual wood screws then the tapered bit set is the way to go.
Gary
Ken Hutchins
10-20-2003, 08:15 PM
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.
Ken Hutchins
10-20-2003, 08:15 PM
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.
Ken Hutchins
10-20-2003, 08:15 PM
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.
gary porter
10-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Ken Hutchins:
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.Ken, that sounds good except if you are talkin wood screws then which part of the body are you going to go by? The wood screw tapers from the shank down to the point. You could use a self tapping screw like some of the stainless screws and then the pilot would work fine. If your actually using wood screws like in for example the silicon bronze screws commonly used in boatbuilding etc. then one should seriously consider the tapered bits. Like you said , you used two bits and still don't have the counter sink.
The taper setup does it all at once.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Ken Hutchins:
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.Ken, that sounds good except if you are talkin wood screws then which part of the body are you going to go by? The wood screw tapers from the shank down to the point. You could use a self tapping screw like some of the stainless screws and then the pilot would work fine. If your actually using wood screws like in for example the silicon bronze screws commonly used in boatbuilding etc. then one should seriously consider the tapered bits. Like you said , you used two bits and still don't have the counter sink.
The taper setup does it all at once.
Gary
gary porter
10-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Ken Hutchins:
No tapered bits for me, the proper way to attach 1 part to another is to have a hole through the top part just slightly larger than the body diameter of the screw. The bottom part should be drilled to the root diameter of the screw. That makes 2 drills, plus a counterbore or countersink as needed. If the hole through the top part is not big enough to clear the screw, the screw will tend to tighten itself on the top part and not pull the 2 pieces together.Ken, that sounds good except if you are talkin wood screws then which part of the body are you going to go by? The wood screw tapers from the shank down to the point. You could use a self tapping screw like some of the stainless screws and then the pilot would work fine. If your actually using wood screws like in for example the silicon bronze screws commonly used in boatbuilding etc. then one should seriously consider the tapered bits. Like you said , you used two bits and still don't have the counter sink.
The taper setup does it all at once.
Gary
Venchka
10-20-2003, 09:55 PM
I just love the "educational discussions" here. It's a good thing I didn't ask about the step taper bits WoodenBoat Magazine taught us how to make a few years back. According to that article, the step taper was the only way to fly.
For what it's worth, the boat was built with tapered bits from Lee Valley Tools. Judging by the repsonses, I picked out more or less the right package and got a couple plug cutters in the bargain.
Thanks everybody!
Venchka
10-20-2003, 09:55 PM
I just love the "educational discussions" here. It's a good thing I didn't ask about the step taper bits WoodenBoat Magazine taught us how to make a few years back. According to that article, the step taper was the only way to fly.
For what it's worth, the boat was built with tapered bits from Lee Valley Tools. Judging by the repsonses, I picked out more or less the right package and got a couple plug cutters in the bargain.
Thanks everybody!
Venchka
10-20-2003, 09:55 PM
I just love the "educational discussions" here. It's a good thing I didn't ask about the step taper bits WoodenBoat Magazine taught us how to make a few years back. According to that article, the step taper was the only way to fly.
For what it's worth, the boat was built with tapered bits from Lee Valley Tools. Judging by the repsonses, I picked out more or less the right package and got a couple plug cutters in the bargain.
Thanks everybody!
Carlsboats
10-20-2003, 10:35 PM
The main troubles I have had -- and big name boat restorers tell me they have had the same experience -- are two: (1) finding taper bitts that match the shape of the screw bodies; and (2) finding sets in which the plug cutters make a plug that is a tight fit in the holes made by the (supposedly) matching taper bitts.
I have used a Fuller set for 30 plus years. It is almost indestructible -- and Fuller will resharpen for a nominal sum. But the plugs it cuts are a sloppy fit in the holes, not nearly tight enough for work that is going to be varnished. And with Fuller and some other brands I have tried, it's a sometimes thing if the shank of the bitt is the right size for the bronze screws I am driving. Problem is common with #10 and #12 FH screws, which I mostly what I use.
Carlsboats
10-20-2003, 10:35 PM
The main troubles I have had -- and big name boat restorers tell me they have had the same experience -- are two: (1) finding taper bitts that match the shape of the screw bodies; and (2) finding sets in which the plug cutters make a plug that is a tight fit in the holes made by the (supposedly) matching taper bitts.
I have used a Fuller set for 30 plus years. It is almost indestructible -- and Fuller will resharpen for a nominal sum. But the plugs it cuts are a sloppy fit in the holes, not nearly tight enough for work that is going to be varnished. And with Fuller and some other brands I have tried, it's a sometimes thing if the shank of the bitt is the right size for the bronze screws I am driving. Problem is common with #10 and #12 FH screws, which I mostly what I use.
Carlsboats
10-20-2003, 10:35 PM
The main troubles I have had -- and big name boat restorers tell me they have had the same experience -- are two: (1) finding taper bitts that match the shape of the screw bodies; and (2) finding sets in which the plug cutters make a plug that is a tight fit in the holes made by the (supposedly) matching taper bitts.
I have used a Fuller set for 30 plus years. It is almost indestructible -- and Fuller will resharpen for a nominal sum. But the plugs it cuts are a sloppy fit in the holes, not nearly tight enough for work that is going to be varnished. And with Fuller and some other brands I have tried, it's a sometimes thing if the shank of the bitt is the right size for the bronze screws I am driving. Problem is common with #10 and #12 FH screws, which I mostly what I use.
helvit
10-20-2003, 11:05 PM
That Lee Valley set actually does cut plugs that fit the holes, and bevels the end of the plug to get that tight fit started.
helvit
10-20-2003, 11:05 PM
That Lee Valley set actually does cut plugs that fit the holes, and bevels the end of the plug to get that tight fit started.
helvit
10-20-2003, 11:05 PM
That Lee Valley set actually does cut plugs that fit the holes, and bevels the end of the plug to get that tight fit started.
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:39 PM
both Stanley tool and General tool make a wood working bit that drills the pilot hole, clearance hole and , counter sink all at once with one bit-the draw back to them is they are difficult to set up and break easily.
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:39 PM
both Stanley tool and General tool make a wood working bit that drills the pilot hole, clearance hole and , counter sink all at once with one bit-the draw back to them is they are difficult to set up and break easily.
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:39 PM
both Stanley tool and General tool make a wood working bit that drills the pilot hole, clearance hole and , counter sink all at once with one bit-the draw back to them is they are difficult to set up and break easily.
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:42 PM
carl? a fuller set that is almost undestructible? you must be kidding- Ive broken I dont know how many of the tapered bits and to use one for 30 years? Im lucky to get 2 or 3 months out of a set when Im working hard.,
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:42 PM
carl? a fuller set that is almost undestructible? you must be kidding- Ive broken I dont know how many of the tapered bits and to use one for 30 years? Im lucky to get 2 or 3 months out of a set when Im working hard.,
Dutch Rub
10-20-2003, 11:42 PM
carl? a fuller set that is almost undestructible? you must be kidding- Ive broken I dont know how many of the tapered bits and to use one for 30 years? Im lucky to get 2 or 3 months out of a set when Im working hard.,
gary porter
10-21-2003, 12:22 PM
Ken, Moby and all, Very sorry but what I said about the wood screws tapering is wrong. It bothered me after I said that and last night I checked,,,,none of my wood screws taper at all. Not the screw and not the root. Still the tapered bit setup is or does seem faster and makes for a predrill that allows for good fastening. The taper in the screws is an illusion and I should have known that.
Gary.... :rolleyes:
gary porter
10-21-2003, 12:22 PM
Ken, Moby and all, Very sorry but what I said about the wood screws tapering is wrong. It bothered me after I said that and last night I checked,,,,none of my wood screws taper at all. Not the screw and not the root. Still the tapered bit setup is or does seem faster and makes for a predrill that allows for good fastening. The taper in the screws is an illusion and I should have known that.
Gary.... :rolleyes:
gary porter
10-21-2003, 12:22 PM
Ken, Moby and all, Very sorry but what I said about the wood screws tapering is wrong. It bothered me after I said that and last night I checked,,,,none of my wood screws taper at all. Not the screw and not the root. Still the tapered bit setup is or does seem faster and makes for a predrill that allows for good fastening. The taper in the screws is an illusion and I should have known that.
Gary.... :rolleyes:
Ken Hutchins
10-21-2003, 01:04 PM
Dutch, I've have some of the Stanley bits, love them, in fact 1 of them a #10 that goes back to the 1950's I've made a few of the pilot bits and sometimes insert a twist drill for the pilot. The biggest problem is the straight flutes and the last ones I got I had to sharpen to make them cut better. As for breakage with any bit, don't crowd the bit, give it chance to cut and clear the chips more often, especially in deeper holes. It is very seldom that I break a bit.
Carl, The Fuller and some other countersinks must be adjusted with the screws to get it running concentric with the drill. This should be done and when done properly will produce holes that are a snug fit to the plugs.
Ken Hutchins
10-21-2003, 01:04 PM
Dutch, I've have some of the Stanley bits, love them, in fact 1 of them a #10 that goes back to the 1950's I've made a few of the pilot bits and sometimes insert a twist drill for the pilot. The biggest problem is the straight flutes and the last ones I got I had to sharpen to make them cut better. As for breakage with any bit, don't crowd the bit, give it chance to cut and clear the chips more often, especially in deeper holes. It is very seldom that I break a bit.
Carl, The Fuller and some other countersinks must be adjusted with the screws to get it running concentric with the drill. This should be done and when done properly will produce holes that are a snug fit to the plugs.
Ken Hutchins
10-21-2003, 01:04 PM
Dutch, I've have some of the Stanley bits, love them, in fact 1 of them a #10 that goes back to the 1950's I've made a few of the pilot bits and sometimes insert a twist drill for the pilot. The biggest problem is the straight flutes and the last ones I got I had to sharpen to make them cut better. As for breakage with any bit, don't crowd the bit, give it chance to cut and clear the chips more often, especially in deeper holes. It is very seldom that I break a bit.
Carl, The Fuller and some other countersinks must be adjusted with the screws to get it running concentric with the drill. This should be done and when done properly will produce holes that are a snug fit to the plugs.
gary porter
10-21-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by N. Scheuer:
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby NickHeres a good read on why to use taper points:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/why_use.html
Some good charts:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/wood_screws.html
Gary
gary porter
10-21-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by N. Scheuer:
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby NickHeres a good read on why to use taper points:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/why_use.html
Some good charts:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/wood_screws.html
Gary
gary porter
10-21-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by N. Scheuer:
May I ask, "Why does one need tapered drill bits".
I've had several wooden boats; just picked up a nice lapstrake cedar Melon Seed a few months ago; tapered drill bits are WAY down my list of needed tools.
Moby NickHeres a good read on why to use taper points:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/why_use.html
Some good charts:
http://www.bitsnbores.com/html/wood_screws.html
Gary
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