View Full Version : Is Water Oak a boatbuilding wood?
Ethan
06-28-2005, 02:09 PM
Ok, I went to look at the tree referenced in this thread (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=003065) . No dice on a leaf match for either Red or White Oak. Happens that the owner came driving up while I was there and when asked, said that the tree was a Water Oak. I've never heard of a Water Oak - so, I have no idea what value it has (if any) in boatbuilding or for anything else.
Anybody have any ideas?
My backup plan is to use it for barn timbers, anybody have any thoughts on that?
All thoughts and info greatly appreciated!!
Ethan
Ethan
06-28-2005, 02:09 PM
Ok, I went to look at the tree referenced in this thread (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=003065) . No dice on a leaf match for either Red or White Oak. Happens that the owner came driving up while I was there and when asked, said that the tree was a Water Oak. I've never heard of a Water Oak - so, I have no idea what value it has (if any) in boatbuilding or for anything else.
Anybody have any ideas?
My backup plan is to use it for barn timbers, anybody have any thoughts on that?
All thoughts and info greatly appreciated!!
Ethan
Ethan
06-28-2005, 02:09 PM
Ok, I went to look at the tree referenced in this thread (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=003065) . No dice on a leaf match for either Red or White Oak. Happens that the owner came driving up while I was there and when asked, said that the tree was a Water Oak. I've never heard of a Water Oak - so, I have no idea what value it has (if any) in boatbuilding or for anything else.
Anybody have any ideas?
My backup plan is to use it for barn timbers, anybody have any thoughts on that?
All thoughts and info greatly appreciated!!
Ethan
" The wood is not considered good for finished lumber, because it cracks and splits excessively when drying. However, it is used for rough construction lumber and uses such as support beams, where strength is most important."
That's a clip from UNC's Plant Information Center (http://www.ibiblio.org/pic/NCTrees/wateroak.htm) .
Other sites show it as good lumber, bad lumber, sold as Red Oak and sold as White Oak.
" The wood is not considered good for finished lumber, because it cracks and splits excessively when drying. However, it is used for rough construction lumber and uses such as support beams, where strength is most important."
That's a clip from UNC's Plant Information Center (http://www.ibiblio.org/pic/NCTrees/wateroak.htm) .
Other sites show it as good lumber, bad lumber, sold as Red Oak and sold as White Oak.
" The wood is not considered good for finished lumber, because it cracks and splits excessively when drying. However, it is used for rough construction lumber and uses such as support beams, where strength is most important."
That's a clip from UNC's Plant Information Center (http://www.ibiblio.org/pic/NCTrees/wateroak.htm) .
Other sites show it as good lumber, bad lumber, sold as Red Oak and sold as White Oak.
Water Oak, quercus nigra. http://rnrstreamer.lsu.edu/ecosystems/webtour/species/wateroak/wateroak.htm
Googling "water oak" will get you a bunch of other sites; common names are tricky, though, and if it doesn't match that description it might well be something else.
Water Oak, quercus nigra. http://rnrstreamer.lsu.edu/ecosystems/webtour/species/wateroak/wateroak.htm
Googling "water oak" will get you a bunch of other sites; common names are tricky, though, and if it doesn't match that description it might well be something else.
Water Oak, quercus nigra. http://rnrstreamer.lsu.edu/ecosystems/webtour/species/wateroak/wateroak.htm
Googling "water oak" will get you a bunch of other sites; common names are tricky, though, and if it doesn't match that description it might well be something else.
Mrleft8
06-29-2005, 09:31 AM
...And of course... The closer an Oak gets to the water, the whiter it gets....
Mrleft8
06-29-2005, 09:31 AM
...And of course... The closer an Oak gets to the water, the whiter it gets....
Mrleft8
06-29-2005, 09:31 AM
...And of course... The closer an Oak gets to the water, the whiter it gets....
raycon
06-29-2005, 09:51 AM
Quercus nigra == American red oak, blackjack, pin oak,possum oak, punk oak, red oak, spotted oak, water oak
raycon
06-29-2005, 09:51 AM
Quercus nigra == American red oak, blackjack, pin oak,possum oak, punk oak, red oak, spotted oak, water oak
raycon
06-29-2005, 09:51 AM
Quercus nigra == American red oak, blackjack, pin oak,possum oak, punk oak, red oak, spotted oak, water oak
Down here Water Oak is a weed tree.
Down here Water Oak is a weed tree.
Down here Water Oak is a weed tree.
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:51 PM
This just goes to show how much confusion common names can cause:
According to A Guide to Useful Woods of the World "Water Oak" is one of the common names used for Quercus arkansana. This is a red oak and so not good for boatbuilding.
According to The Audubon Society Field Guide to Trees of North America - Eastern Region "Water Oak" is the common name for Quercus nigra. This is also a red oak.
The Audubon book also identifies "Water White Oak" as an alternate common name for "Overcup Oak" or Quercus lyrata. This, as its name suggests, is a white oak and so presumably good for boatbuilding.
Googling on any of the scientific names will get you lots of pictures that you can use to identify what exact tree you are dealing with.
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:51 PM
This just goes to show how much confusion common names can cause:
According to A Guide to Useful Woods of the World "Water Oak" is one of the common names used for Quercus arkansana. This is a red oak and so not good for boatbuilding.
According to The Audubon Society Field Guide to Trees of North America - Eastern Region "Water Oak" is the common name for Quercus nigra. This is also a red oak.
The Audubon book also identifies "Water White Oak" as an alternate common name for "Overcup Oak" or Quercus lyrata. This, as its name suggests, is a white oak and so presumably good for boatbuilding.
Googling on any of the scientific names will get you lots of pictures that you can use to identify what exact tree you are dealing with.
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:51 PM
This just goes to show how much confusion common names can cause:
According to A Guide to Useful Woods of the World "Water Oak" is one of the common names used for Quercus arkansana. This is a red oak and so not good for boatbuilding.
According to The Audubon Society Field Guide to Trees of North America - Eastern Region "Water Oak" is the common name for Quercus nigra. This is also a red oak.
The Audubon book also identifies "Water White Oak" as an alternate common name for "Overcup Oak" or Quercus lyrata. This, as its name suggests, is a white oak and so presumably good for boatbuilding.
Googling on any of the scientific names will get you lots of pictures that you can use to identify what exact tree you are dealing with.
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:56 PM
Since the pictures on the other thread did not help you I'm guessing that you are looking at leaves more like this:
http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/herb/QQ/Quercus_nigra1.jpg
Which means you do indeed have Quercus nigra. That also seems likely because Quercus arkansana and Quercus lyrata are relatively rare...
Edited to fix image...the first image I found wouldn't display...
[ 06-29-2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:56 PM
Since the pictures on the other thread did not help you I'm guessing that you are looking at leaves more like this:
http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/herb/QQ/Quercus_nigra1.jpg
Which means you do indeed have Quercus nigra. That also seems likely because Quercus arkansana and Quercus lyrata are relatively rare...
Edited to fix image...the first image I found wouldn't display...
[ 06-29-2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 01:56 PM
Since the pictures on the other thread did not help you I'm guessing that you are looking at leaves more like this:
http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/herb/QQ/Quercus_nigra1.jpg
Which means you do indeed have Quercus nigra. That also seems likely because Quercus arkansana and Quercus lyrata are relatively rare...
Edited to fix image...the first image I found wouldn't display...
[ 06-29-2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]
Ethan
06-29-2005, 03:43 PM
Bruce - That's the tree.
Too bad, would have been a great find. Thanks, everybody, for your quick responses and help.
Regards, Ethan
Ethan
06-29-2005, 03:43 PM
Bruce - That's the tree.
Too bad, would have been a great find. Thanks, everybody, for your quick responses and help.
Regards, Ethan
Ethan
06-29-2005, 03:43 PM
Bruce - That's the tree.
Too bad, would have been a great find. Thanks, everybody, for your quick responses and help.
Regards, Ethan
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 04:11 PM
You're welcome...
Of course red oak in general is a fine furniture wood so even if this tree is not useful for boatbuilding there would still be good reasons for making into lumber rather than firewood. The one caveat I will add is that I do not know what the wood of Quercus nigra is like to work with -- it could be that it is less desirable than the other varieties of red oak for some reason...
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 04:11 PM
You're welcome...
Of course red oak in general is a fine furniture wood so even if this tree is not useful for boatbuilding there would still be good reasons for making into lumber rather than firewood. The one caveat I will add is that I do not know what the wood of Quercus nigra is like to work with -- it could be that it is less desirable than the other varieties of red oak for some reason...
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 04:11 PM
You're welcome...
Of course red oak in general is a fine furniture wood so even if this tree is not useful for boatbuilding there would still be good reasons for making into lumber rather than firewood. The one caveat I will add is that I do not know what the wood of Quercus nigra is like to work with -- it could be that it is less desirable than the other varieties of red oak for some reason...
Venchka
06-29-2005, 04:19 PM
According to my almost non-existant knowledge of oaks, the photo above should be a white oak based on the rounded leaves. What am I missing?
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
Venchka
06-29-2005, 04:19 PM
According to my almost non-existant knowledge of oaks, the photo above should be a white oak based on the rounded leaves. What am I missing?
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
Venchka
06-29-2005, 04:19 PM
According to my almost non-existant knowledge of oaks, the photo above should be a white oak based on the rounded leaves. What am I missing?
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
Wayne, White Oak has leaves with rounded lobes:
<img src= "http://www.saltthesandbox.org/trees/WhiteOak.jpg">
Wayne, White Oak has leaves with rounded lobes:
<img src= "http://www.saltthesandbox.org/trees/WhiteOak.jpg">
Wayne, White Oak has leaves with rounded lobes:
<img src= "http://www.saltthesandbox.org/trees/WhiteOak.jpg">
The white oaks have multi-lobed rounded leaves.
The white oaks have multi-lobed rounded leaves.
The white oaks have multi-lobed rounded leaves.
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:17 PM
OK, so the green leaves above belong to a white oak?
All of the red oaks around my house in The Swamp have sharp pointed leaves. The live oaks are rounded. Same for the house in Texas-post oaks (white branch of the oak clan) are rounded.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:17 PM
OK, so the green leaves above belong to a white oak?
All of the red oaks around my house in The Swamp have sharp pointed leaves. The live oaks are rounded. Same for the house in Texas-post oaks (white branch of the oak clan) are rounded.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:17 PM
OK, so the green leaves above belong to a white oak?
All of the red oaks around my house in The Swamp have sharp pointed leaves. The live oaks are rounded. Same for the house in Texas-post oaks (white branch of the oak clan) are rounded.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:21 PM
Like I said, I don't know nothing.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:21 PM
Like I said, I don't know nothing.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:21 PM
Like I said, I don't know nothing.
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
The green leaves above are what is known as shallowly lobed, and yes, they are rounded.
The brown leaf in my pic is rounded pinnatifid lobed, meaning it has pairs of lobes on each side of the midrib, cut less than half-way to the rib, when they would become rounded pinnatisect lobed.
The green leaves above are what is known as shallowly lobed, and yes, they are rounded.
The brown leaf in my pic is rounded pinnatifid lobed, meaning it has pairs of lobes on each side of the midrib, cut less than half-way to the rib, when they would become rounded pinnatisect lobed.
The green leaves above are what is known as shallowly lobed, and yes, they are rounded.
The brown leaf in my pic is rounded pinnatifid lobed, meaning it has pairs of lobes on each side of the midrib, cut less than half-way to the rib, when they would become rounded pinnatisect lobed.
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 05:44 PM
Wayne,
I think the basic point of all Donn's fancy language is that the green leaves in the picture I posted are not really "lobed" in the way that most oak leaves are so the rounded versus pointed rule doesn't really work...
- Bruce
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 05:44 PM
Wayne,
I think the basic point of all Donn's fancy language is that the green leaves in the picture I posted are not really "lobed" in the way that most oak leaves are so the rounded versus pointed rule doesn't really work...
- Bruce
Bruce Hooke
06-29-2005, 05:44 PM
Wayne,
I think the basic point of all Donn's fancy language is that the green leaves in the picture I posted are not really "lobed" in the way that most oak leaves are so the rounded versus pointed rule doesn't really work...
- Bruce
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:45 PM
OK, so a white oak leaf is indented and round? A red oak leaf may be indented with sharp pointed ends OR rounded with no indentations?
Live oak leaves are a whole different thing. But I know what they look like.
EDIT to add: Great. Just when I thought I knew something, the rules changed. :D
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:45 PM
OK, so a white oak leaf is indented and round? A red oak leaf may be indented with sharp pointed ends OR rounded with no indentations?
Live oak leaves are a whole different thing. But I know what they look like.
EDIT to add: Great. Just when I thought I knew something, the rules changed. :D
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
Venchka
06-29-2005, 05:45 PM
OK, so a white oak leaf is indented and round? A red oak leaf may be indented with sharp pointed ends OR rounded with no indentations?
Live oak leaves are a whole different thing. But I know what they look like.
EDIT to add: Great. Just when I thought I knew something, the rules changed. :D
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D
[ 06-29-2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]
It isn't my "fancy language." Blame it on the wacko botanists. Next week, they'll change the names. :D
It isn't my "fancy language." Blame it on the wacko botanists. Next week, they'll change the names. :D
It isn't my "fancy language." Blame it on the wacko botanists. Next week, they'll change the names. :D
I'm sure that it all makes sense in Latin.
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1017.htm the first link after the name of each is to a leaf photo.
http://www.state.sc.us/forest/tidlob.htm drawings of a bunch of leaves, all on one page
http://forestry.msu.edu/uptreeid/Species/oaks.htm a page of a "tree identifier" but mostly for trees in the U.P. of Michigan; I don't know of a USA or North America version. :(
I'm sure that it all makes sense in Latin.
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1017.htm the first link after the name of each is to a leaf photo.
http://www.state.sc.us/forest/tidlob.htm drawings of a bunch of leaves, all on one page
http://forestry.msu.edu/uptreeid/Species/oaks.htm a page of a "tree identifier" but mostly for trees in the U.P. of Michigan; I don't know of a USA or North America version. :(
I'm sure that it all makes sense in Latin.
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1017.htm the first link after the name of each is to a leaf photo.
http://www.state.sc.us/forest/tidlob.htm drawings of a bunch of leaves, all on one page
http://forestry.msu.edu/uptreeid/Species/oaks.htm a page of a "tree identifier" but mostly for trees in the U.P. of Michigan; I don't know of a USA or North America version. :(
pipefitter
06-29-2005, 10:28 PM
I have 2 water oaks and 2 large live oaks. The water oak(had 3 one rotted and killed the neighbors pickup)do die in 50-75 yrs. Hence the neighbors crunched truck. The wood isnt really any good for firewood if it has come from fallen branches as it is pulpy by the time it falls off the tree. Live Oak on the other hand burns well even as it starts to decay. Seems that the good woods burn well and the not so good ones dont. I also have scrub oaks and a laurel oak or 2. The scrub oak seems to burn well as firewood. Is great for putting in the smoker as is live oak. Never tried the water oak for smoking wood.
pipefitter
06-29-2005, 10:28 PM
I have 2 water oaks and 2 large live oaks. The water oak(had 3 one rotted and killed the neighbors pickup)do die in 50-75 yrs. Hence the neighbors crunched truck. The wood isnt really any good for firewood if it has come from fallen branches as it is pulpy by the time it falls off the tree. Live Oak on the other hand burns well even as it starts to decay. Seems that the good woods burn well and the not so good ones dont. I also have scrub oaks and a laurel oak or 2. The scrub oak seems to burn well as firewood. Is great for putting in the smoker as is live oak. Never tried the water oak for smoking wood.
pipefitter
06-29-2005, 10:28 PM
I have 2 water oaks and 2 large live oaks. The water oak(had 3 one rotted and killed the neighbors pickup)do die in 50-75 yrs. Hence the neighbors crunched truck. The wood isnt really any good for firewood if it has come from fallen branches as it is pulpy by the time it falls off the tree. Live Oak on the other hand burns well even as it starts to decay. Seems that the good woods burn well and the not so good ones dont. I also have scrub oaks and a laurel oak or 2. The scrub oak seems to burn well as firewood. Is great for putting in the smoker as is live oak. Never tried the water oak for smoking wood.
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